Can we please stop misusing the name "Karen"?

Welcome to Wondercafe2!

A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!

Register Log in
Status
Not open for further replies.
Northwind said:
And you will note that Melody Cooper called out the actual behaviour. She did not rely merely on a label.
Click to expand...
Yes, but the label was perfectly appropriate. Can't you just admit you made a mistake? Maybe you didn't realize or forgot Melody Cooper used the word Karen, and suddenly white mainstream women are focused on their own "injustice" for the label. Wonder why? It wasn't because of Chris or Melody Cooper. It's because of right wing backlash. The way they do it is to subvert already subversive language to use it against the real victims - white women may not have as much power as white men but in our society they have had more power historically than black men and black women. The right wants to channel that power with mainstream white women's self righteousness.

To put it another way - Karen doesn't have to worry about being shot by the cops for being black and it's a f***ing luxury to worry about the label "Karen". Check your privilege.

And @Northwind trying to suggest the Chris Cooper story would've gotten more traction without using the word Karen or as though it wasn't one of the main reasons it did get more traction, and more conversation...then trying to twist your question back like I missed the point when you clearly drew a blank or screwed up, feels kind of like you're gaslighting me.
 
Last edited:
Oh FFS Kimmio. Read my damn posts. I did not make a mistake. Never did I say Melody Cooper didn't use the label. I said Christian didn't. Yes, Melody used the label. More importantly, she named the bad behaviour. That's what is important. Please do point out where I said the Cooper story would have gotten more traction without the label.

I have never once suggested it is an injustice to use the label. I have repeatedly said it is imprecise and says nothing. I've called you out on suggesting those of us who don't like the label (or other labels) can't take a joke.

Never once have I suggested the women who get labelled "Karen" are victims or that their behaviour is justified. Ever.

I absolutely see the injustice and systemic racism that gets black men shot. My point, yet again, is to call out the behaviours that feed that. Do like Melody and Christian Cooper and name the behaviour.

Take a few minutes to read what I actually wrote instead of making something up.

I ask again: why is it only women who get a label? How do they address men who behave badly.
 
Northwind said:
Oh FFS Kimmio. Read my damn posts. I did not make a mistake. Never did I say Melody Cooper didn't use the label. I said Christian didn't. Yes, Melody used the label. More importantly, she named the bad behaviour. That's what is important. Please do point out where I said the Cooper story would have gotten more traction without the label.

I have never once suggested it is an injustice to use the label. I have repeatedly said it is imprecise and says nothing. I've called you out on suggesting those of us who don't like the label (or other labels) can't take a joke.

Never once have I suggested the women who get labelled "Karen" are victims or that their behaviour is justified. Ever.

I absolutely see the injustice and systemic racism that gets black men shot. My point, yet again, is to call out the behaviours that feed that. Do like Melody and Christian Cooper and name the behaviour.

Take a few minutes to read what I actually wrote instead of making something up.

I ask again: why is it only women who get a label? How do they address men who behave badly.
Click to expand...
Dicks
 
I think you're trying to brush over your mistake with self-righteous indignation. Melody Cooper used the word Karen to point out the behaviour. She made a point of it. She did it on her brothers behalf with his permission. If it were not for that tweet we may not be discussing the context of the word Karen. Don't you get it it? It's so obvious at this point what the reasoning is and why we shouldn't get upset about it. She was speaking to you, to me, too - we all have a bit of Karen in us - and though it may not be as awful or melodramatic as Amy Cooper's inner Karen - when we get upset about that while black people worry about being shot by cops while out doing everyday things, we are being the stereotype of the entitled white female debutante.
 
I can't continue when you're engaged in magical thinking Kimmio. I did not brush over anything.

Melody used the term. That's fine for her. I will not use it. I will endeavour to call out the behaviour in the way that works best for me. It will not, to the best of my ability, include gaslighting techniques of suggesting the other person doesn't get "the joke" or suggesting that someone is incapable of thinking for themselves.
 
It's precisely imprecise and says a lot of things about white privelege.

Why should Melody Cooper have to leave off the word for you? You protesting against it suggests you don't think it should be used in any context.
 
In fact you said it was never ok. The irony that you're telling people like Melody that when she brought Chris Cooper's incident to our attention - which was about a white woman deciding it was not ok to her for a black man to be in the park.
 
Northwind said:
It's never okay to use pejorative slang towards anyone. Call out the behaviour without labels and name calling. If you have to resort to insults/name calling you've lost your argument.
Click to expand...
You said this. And quite frankly, I think whoever began using Karen to describe entitled white women behaviour is totally winning the argument.
 
Kimmio I've stated my perspective several times now. I don't know how else to say it. I did say I do not see any place to use the label. I'd be happy to engage in a conversation about that with Melody Cooper if the opportunity came up. Before you tell me I'd be telling her what to say, I would not. Note, I said I'd engage in a conversation with her. That is what I have attempted here. As I said before, because I do not believe there's a place for pejorative labels, I will not use it. Go ahead and use it if it's so important to you. I don't think it will help your cause, but what do I know, I'm just a f***ing boomer. :cool:
 
Northwind said:
Kimmio I've stated my perspective several times now. I don't know how else to say it. I did say I do not see any place to use the label. I'd be happy to engage in a conversation about that with Melody Cooper if the opportunity came up. Before you tell me I'd be telling her what to say, I would not. Note, I said I'd engage in a conversation with her. That is what I have attempted here. As I said before, because I do not believe there's a place for pejorative labels, I will not use it. Go ahead and use it if it's so important to you. I don't think it will help your cause, but what do I know, I'm just a f***ing boomer. :cool:
Click to expand...
I likely won't use it with people who don't get it. And are so bent up by the pejorative they miss the reflections that have already been made about its black feminist meaning being one of an adopted legacy of using slave owner wives names as a pejorative to represent the behaviour.

Ironically, if you want to talk about names as tools of real abuse, think about how people like Chris and Melody Cooper have the same surnames as people like Amy Cooper, in North America, especially the US.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top