Can we please stop misusing the name "Karen"?

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Funny enough, I have a great relationship with a co-worker of mine, who is gay. He and my Rev did a skit to illustrate a point a few weeks ago. I laughingly called him a real karen (which is a fair enough jest with a 'normally pretty savvy aware gay guy'), I thought.

He didn't get it, actually, and by the time we'd unpacked it, it wasn't very funny.

My next door neighbours growing up were Dick and Gay.
 
Northwind said:
Is this supposed to be your understanding of my argument? If it is, try again. You're missing a huge part of it.
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I don't think it's your understanding of your argument - though, honestly I don't know why you're arguing because you lost this - it's a bad argument.. It's my understanding of your argument because your argument is not unique to you. Your argument is that it's not okay to use what you think is a sexist pejorative anytime. If others use it in context they can, but you still think it's a sexist pejorative - even if empowered black women who've had to carry the names of slave owners for centuries use the name Karen to take an ironic little jab at injustice - you think it's just bloody awful that somebody would reduce a good old colonial name to a good old colonial context that makes white privelege look itself in the mirror. That's the subtext. It's "subversive" - and it's working. The word actually addresses all of that and the subtext.
 
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Gotcha, miss white colonialist daughter of a quintessential "karen", from everything you describe. Always remember, dear one, that when you point one finger at another, that three are pointing back at yourself.
 
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
Your argument is that it's not okay to use what you think is a sexist pejorative anytime.
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Kimmio Laughterlove said:
you think it's just bloody awful that somebody would reduce a good old colonial name to a good old colonial context that makes white privelege look itself in the mirror.
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As I thought. You have absolutely not read what I wrote and continue to believe you know what I think. You're absolutely wrong.

I suppose the big mistake is putting the fact I don't like the term "Karen" first. You've gotten stuck on that and are chewing on it like a dog with a bone. You missed the rest of what I've said many times.

You do not understand what I wrote. You have not even bothered tried to actually hear my perspective.
 
BetteTheRed said:
Gotcha, miss white colonialist daughter of a quintessential "karen", from everything you describe. Always remember, dear one, that when you point one finger at another, that three are pointing back at yourself.
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Kimmio is demonstrating colonial behaviour be presuming she knows what's best for others instead of listening to what they are saying isn't she.
 
Northwind said:
As I thought. You have absolutely not read what I wrote and continue to believe you know what I think. You're absolutely wrong.

I suppose the big mistake is putting the fact I don't like the term "Karen" first. You've gotten stuck on that and are chewing on it like a dog with a bone. You missed the rest of what I've said many times.

You do not understand what I wrote. You have not even bothered tried to actually hear my perspective.
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No, I'm speaking truth to power. It may not be a lot more power, but any power imbalance is still a power imbalance.
 
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
No, I'm speaking truth to power. It may not be a lot more power, but any power imbalance is still a power imbalance.
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Oh please. Give it up. You say I've "lost" the argument based on not even knowing what my point is. It's making you look foolish.

Okay, I'll give you a clue. What is your understanding (that means your own words) of what I suggest should be done instead of using a sexist, pejorative label?
 
BetteTheRed said:
Gotcha, miss white colonialist daughter of a quintessential "karen", from everything you describe. Always remember, dear one, that when you point one finger at another, that three are pointing back at yourself.
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I'm willing to recognize my white privelege and why white women of similar circumstances - though, minus the disability experience of oppression, discrimination, systemic ableism and bullying and my mother was quite dehumanizing which maybe makes this a bit more relatable to me - deserve this moniker, all of us.
 
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Northwind said:
Oh please. Give it up. You say I've "lost" the argument based on not even knowing what my point is. It's making you look foolish.

Okay, I'll give you a clue. What is your understanding (that means your own words) of what I suggest should be done instead of using a sexist, pejorative label?
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Point out the behaviour, don't label it using someone's (precious colonial) name.

Melody Cooper, likely ancestor of slaves who were forced to take slave owners family names as a sign of their ownership - if you think it's wrong and pointless and sexist for anyone to say Karen (therefore you won't use it and will dismiss any relevant meaning it has) in the context of white privilege and systemic racism you must think it's wrong for Melody to say it too. And she did call out the behaviour but she explicitly used the word Karen to do so. The next time anything like this were to happen - all one needs to say is Karen...and we should get it. It should be pretty evident as to what behaviour it refers to. We should not get upset about the misuse of a good old fashioned name.

Only get upset if its used by dicks to harangue SJW types for standing up to injustice (or just correct and dismiss them) - because then it's being coopted out of context.
 
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Kimmio Laughterlove said:
The next time anything like this were to happen - all one needs to say is Karen...and we should get it. Not get upset about it.
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Might I remind you of what Bette said:

BetteTheRed said:
Funny enough, I have a great relationship with a co-worker of mine, who is gay. He and my Rev did a skit to illustrate a point a few weeks ago. I laughingly called him a real karen (which is a fair enough jest with a 'normally pretty savvy aware gay guy'), I thought.

He didn't get it, actually, and by the time we'd unpacked it, it wasn't very funny.
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"Should" is a mythical directive. Life doesn't usually go the way the "shoulds" direct.
 
Northwind said:
Ms Cooper is not an ancestor of slaves.
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Do you know that? Even if she isn't how do you think so many black Americans have white European/ British last names? The answer is because the European slave trade stripped black people of their own identities and gave them the owners names because they were considered property.
 
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
Do you know that? Even if she isn't how do you think so many black Americans have white European/ British last names? The answer is because the European slave trade stripped black people of their own identities and gave them the owners names because they were considered property.
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Yes, I know she is not an ancestor.
 
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