Bible Study Thread: Luke

[Waterfall]

Isnt this the only story of Jesus, out of all the gospels chosen to include within the Bible, of his childhood?
I wonder why Jesus just didnt tell his parents what he was up to?
Why do we read this story as staying in his Fathers house differently than if we would say the same thing?

 

[Mendalla]

I wonder why Jesus just didnt tell his parents what he was up to?

They would not have taken it seriously due to his age, perhaps?

Why do we read this story as staying in his Fathers house differently than if we would say the same thing?

Because he was literally the Son of God, or so we have been taught. We see our parental relationship with God differently because it does not seem as immediate and direct as his did.

 

[KayTheCurler]

One thing we learn is that Mary and Joseph weren't modern style helicopter parents.

 

[Waterfall]

They would not have taken it seriously due to his age, perhaps?



Because he was literally the Son of God, or so we have been taught. We see our parental relationship with God differently because it does not seem as immediate and direct as his did.

Curious that he had to remain in the Temple to be with Himself.....if he IS God.
And wouldnt it be his house....why would he say its his fathers?

 

[Mendalla]

Curious that he had to remain in the Temple to be with Himself.....if he IS God.
And wouldnt it be his house....why would he say its his fathers?

Because he didn't see himself in those terms at that time in his life? That's the explanation that works for me but then I don't actually think Jesus was God.

 

[paradox3]

I think Jesus was learning from the teachers in the temple & he was in his Father's house for this reason. He sat among the teachers, listened to them and asked them questions. In turn, they were amazed at his understanding and his answers.

 

[paradox3]

Curious that he had to remain in the Temple to be with Himself.....if he IS God.
And wouldnt it be his house....why would he say its his fathers?

It might be a mistake to read the gospels with our present day understanding of a triune God. Let's look at what we have so far in Luke.

We have the Holy Spirit coming upon Mary to conceive the child. We have Jesus as the Son of God.

We have the prophecy of Zechariah declaring Jesus will be the prophet of the Most High. We have the announcement of the angels that a Savior is born..

We have the song of Simeon and the declaration that Jesus is the Messiah.

Nothing yet to say Jesus actually is God in human form.

 

[Carolla]

Would it have been typical for Jewish people to refer to being in the temple as being in their father's house? Did they refer to God as their father?

 

[paradox3]

Would it have been typical for Jewish people to refer to being in the temple as being in their father's house? Did they refer to God as their father?

Excellent question!

I have never had the impression it was very common, yet there are some examples of God as father in the Old Testament. Here is one:

Isaiah 64:8 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
8 Yet, O Lord, you are our Father;
we are the clay, and you are our potter;
we are all the work of your hand.

 

[Waterfall]

It might be a mistake to read the gospels with our present day understanding of a triune God. Let's look at what we have so far in Luke.

We have the Holy Spirit coming upon Mary to conceive the child. We have Jesus as the Son of God.

We have the prophecy of Zechariah declaring Jesus will be the prophet of the Most High. We have the announcement of the angels that a Savior is born..

We have the song of Simeon and the declaration that Jesus is the Messiah.

Nothing yet to say Jesus actually is God in human form.

Are you forgetting the first two chapters were added MUCH later...or are we to ignore that because its a beautiful story?
If we are going to use the old testament for prophecy...did Mary and Joseph name their son Jesus or Emmanuel?
What is the prophecy from Zacharia you are referring to?

 

[Jaebius]

Thoughts on Luke 2:41-45...

Dr. Luke's reference to Mary and Joseph's attendance at the Passover festival throws a light upon their habits. The Law required that the men appear before God three times in the year.

Mary didn't lack female companions who were taking advantage of the festival period to accompany their husbands and older sons to Jerusalem.

☆ Attendance's regularity's emphasized by Dr. Luke; an example for parents today. ☆

When the boy Jesus was 12, his parents followed the rule laid down that the sons must be trained in religious duties and must take part in the festivals with their elders.

The trip to Jerusalem upon the festivals' occasion was in itself a festival. The people of the remote parts of Palestine formed caravans for traveling together. At times the older members would chant. As they neared the city, and the festival spirit seized them, they'd wave flowers and tree branches in unison' with their song.

In this case, Jesus had participated in the festival week. But when the festival closed and the pilgrims went home, Jesus stayed behind without his parent's knowledge. They thought him to be with some of their caravan and spent a day in inquiring for Him in the caravan.

But when there was no sign of Jesus, Mary was filled with fearful feelings. They rushed back to the capital city and searched it for three days.

 

[Jaebius]

Thoughts on Luke 2:46-50...

At last Mary and Joseph found Jesus in the Temple, sitting in the learned teachers' midst, in the hall where the school-classes of the Law's children assembled for instruction to learn to keep the commandments.

There he was sitting in conference, in which he acted a teacher. He was putting questions, to the amazement of his hearers. His understanding and his ability to penetrate matters were of a kind to astonish.

Mary and Joseph were disturbed on account of the boy's forwardness. And Mary asked why he'd dealt with them thus, not realizing that the fault was theirs.

☆ The way in which Mary refers to Joseph is s proof of the wisdom with which she raised her child; a lesson for today's parents. ☆

Jesus doesn't accept their reproof. He asks her why they had sought in that manner. They should know that he must be about God's business. The Temple was the place where grace's Word was to be taught.

Jesus' answer was beyond Mary's understanding.

 

[paradox3]

Are you forgetting the first two chapters were added MUCH later...or are we to ignore that because its a beautiful story?

No, I haven't forgotten you mentioned this earlier. But I am not sure how it is relevant to my comment about the triune God. The question of when the first two chapters of Luke were written is interesting but it doesn't really affect how I read his gospel.

It sounds like the distinction is important to you. Can you explain a little further?

If we are going to use the old testament for prophecy...did Mary and Joseph name their son Jesus or Emmanuel?

I am not sure why you are bringing this up in this particular context.

What is the prophecy from Zacharia you are referring to?

Zechariah's Prophecy or the Song of Zechariah (Benedictus)

Luke 2: 67 - 79

 

[paradox3]

The trip to Jerusalem upon the festivals' occasion was in itself a festival. The people of the remote parts of Palestine formed caravans for traveling together. At times the older members would chant. As they neared the city, and the festival spirit seized them, they'd wave flowers and tree branches in unison' with their song.

Not sure where you get this but it is a lovely description. The gathering of people traveling together is an important detail in the story.

Welcome back.

 

[paradox3]

Curious that he had to remain in the Temple to be with Himself.....if he IS God.
And wouldnt it be his house....why would he say its his fathers?

Hi again. This is the post which started the discussion about the triune God.

Although I identify as a trinitarian (as opposed to a small "u" unitarian) I don't think Jesus IS God. I am fine with Him being God's son but I don't believe in the virgin birth. Just so you know where I am coming from.

The Holy Trinity is a conceptual framework, as I see it. And it is not really biblical. We find God, God's son and the Holy Spirit all in scripture but they don't become "three persons in one" until later in the church's history.

Hope this helps in our conversation.

 

[Waterfall]

No, I haven't forgotten you mentioned this earlier. But I am not sure how it is relevant to my comment about the triune God. The question of when the first two chapters of Luke were written is interesting but it doesn't really affect how I read his gospel.

It sounds like the distinction is important to you. Can you explain a little further?

I am not sure why you are bringing this up in this particular context.


Zechariah's Prophecy or the Song of Zechariah (Benedictus)

Luke 2: 67 - 79

I guess its important to me because I find it disrespectful to what .Mark truly wanted to say. Somebody unkNown added the verses much later. It appears youre right....its just me. I also tend to believe Jesus is not God but worthy of following and chosen,so when I see verses that lead us away from that through a miraculous birth it appears as an untruth to me. Luke seems to want to begin with Jesus baptism and ministry. WHY? Is it because this is the point He was chosen to do Gods work and not at his birth?

Further when it comes to Lukes claim that Jesus' arrival lines up with Zachariahs prophecy I was wondering where is this prophecy in the OT iLuke refers to? Just curious if the prophecy lines up with what Luke claims.
I only mentioned Emmanuel (God with us)because its in the OT....is this why we refer to Jesus as Emmanual even if he was named Jesus just to line up with prophecy?

 

[Redbaron]

Interestingly, Luke doesn't mention Isaiah's 'prediction' of a name at all. That's from Matthew's birth story. So the difference in name from 'Emmanuel' to 'Jesus' presents no problem to Luke.

 

[Waterfall]

Interestingly, Luke doesn't mention Isaiah's 'prediction' of a name at all. That's from Matthew's birth story. So the difference in name from 'Emmanuel' to 'Jesus' presents no problem to Luke.

I only mentioned that as an example...thank you for the correction....but is it prophecy if the names are interchanged to make it fit? This is why Im curious as to the prophecy from Zachariah that Luke refers to.....

 

[Mendalla]

I guess its important to me because I find it disrespectful to what .Mark truly wanted to say. Somebody unkNown added the verses much later.

How much later? If it was before canonization, then it is part of the canon and part of the story. As for it being disrespectful, that's frankly a modern outlook with no basis in that world.

In the ancient world, authorial credit was far less important than it is to us. Look at the "Pauline" letters that were likely written by others using his name. Is that disrespectful to Paul? To those other writers? Today, we might argue the former but in those days it was the way things happen. Same with adding to and changing works without crediting the additional authors. There was no copyright law, only moral suasion, keeping people from editing and changing other writer's works or crediting their teacher for their work. Also, no one was making big bucks off writing so that copyright and credit didn't have an economic purpose. Even literary writers like Horace and Virgil relied on patronage (by Maecenas, Augustus' "minister of culture") rather than sales.

 

[paradox3]

I only mentioned that as an example...thank you for the correction....but is it prophecy if the names are interchanged to make it fit? This is why Im curious as to the prophecy from Zachariah that Luke refers to.....

The prophecy of Zechariah in Luke (2: 67 - 79) is not from the Hebrew scriptures. It is Zechariah, father of John the Baptist, speaking.