Bible Study Thread: Luke

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paradox3 ---your quote -----How do you know the Jews were not keeping their side of the bargain?

unsafe says ---cause God says so ------the people of Israel here are the Jews

Israel’s Unbelief
30 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. 33 As it is written:

“See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes people to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall,
and the one who believes in him will never be put to shame.”[m]
 
i agree with you that God has not broken any covenant. But Jews cannot keep their side of the bargain. None of us can.

So, God, the transcendent, all-knowing God, crafted a covenant with the humans God created, that it was impossible for said humans to fulfill. Tell me who looks like the a**hole here.
 
paradox3 ---your quote -----Got any examples of Jesus saying these things @@unsafe?

Jesus is the word according to scripture there paradox3 ---just because one doesn't believe Jesus is the word doesn't make it so ---God says His word is truth and it says the Word became Flesh that is good enough for me -----you can either believe it or not that is up to you ----


Image result for jesus is the word
 
The problem here, unsafe, is NOT the word, but the words. All of them, in Aramaic, and Hebrew and Greek, in a thousand translations.

Those very same words tell me that the overarching spirit of ANY scripture, in any faith, is "love your neighbour and expand the definition of neighbour to all of Creation".

Some of those same words give you all kinds of niggly, xenophobic, exclusive rules, around exactly what one must believe and understand. I get that. But it's not universal, and you really need to get that.
 
paradox3 ---your quote -----How do you know the Jews were not keeping their side of the bargain?

unsafe says ---cause God says so ------the people of Israel here are the Jews

Israel’s Unbelief
30 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. 33 As it is written:

“See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes people to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall,
and the one who believes in him will never be put to shame.”[m]
Could we have the reference please for this text.
 
paradox3 ---your quote -----Got any examples of Jesus saying these things @@unsafe?

Jesus is the word according to scripture there paradox3 ---just because one doesn't believe Jesus is the word doesn't make it so ---God says His word is truth and it says the Word became Flesh that is good enough for me -----you can either believe it or not that is up to you ----


Image result for jesus is the word
Are you referring to John's gospel here?

I asked you earlier if you had a reference for Jesus Himself saying anything about the old and new covenants. You cited several references from the epistles which led me to inquire.
 
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i agree with you that God has not broken any covenant.
Maybe God didn't break the covenant but Moses sure did....when he smashed the orignal stone tablets after seeing the Israelites worshipping a golden cow when he came down the mountain....the replaced versions that God commanded are later in Exodus and Deuteronomy 5. I believe the Deuteronomy 5 ones were placed in the arc of the covenant. And there are 15, not 10.
 
Maybe God didn't break the covenant but Moses sure did....when he smashed the orignal stone tablets after seeing the Israelites worshipping a golden cow when he came down the mountain....the replaced versions that God commanded are later in Exodus and Deuteronomy 5. I believe the Deuteronomy 5 ones were placed in the arc of the covenant. And there are 15, not 10.

From my reading, God gives rules, but simultaneously says "I will be your God, and you will be my people".
 
Summary: Luke 17: 1 - 19

1. Jesus spoke to His disciples. Occasions for stumbling are bound to come. Do not cause any little ones to stumble.

If another disciple sins, you must rebuke the offender. If there is repentance, you must forgive even if he sins and repents many times.

The disciples ask Jesus to increase their faith. He replies, "If you had faith the size of a mustard seed, you could say to the mulberry tree, be uprooted & be planted in the sea and it would obey you."

A slave is not thanked for doing what is commanded. Likewise, the disciples are only doing what they ought to do.

2. On the road to Jerusalem, ten lepers approached Jesus for healing. Jesus told them to go show themselves to the priests, and on the way, they were made clean.

Only one of the ten praised God and thanked Jesus. And he was a Samaritan.
 
Reflection: Luke 17: 1 - 19

In this text, we see Jesus instructing the twelve. What might He be telling us in the present day?

Here is me paraphrasing/ imagining what He would say:

Occasions for stumbling in your faith are bound to come. Just be sure you don't cause others to falter.

You must forgive each other over and over as long as there is repentance.

Don't worry about measuring how much faith you have. A tiny seed of faith is enough. But do not expect thanks for acting on your faith. Be satisfied with living your life as I am calling you to do.


In verses 11-19 we have another story of healing and another righteous Samaritan.
 
I find it striking that the slave in the first passage is told not to expect thanks, but the Samaritan in the second part thanks Jesus profusely. Maybe the idea isn't that we should expect to be thanked for what we do, but should never be hesitant to give thanks for what we have received?
 
I find it striking that the slave in the first passage is told not to expect thanks, but the Samaritan in the second part thanks Jesus profusely. Maybe the idea isn't that we should expect to be thanked for what we do, but should never be hesitant to give thanks for what we have received?
A lesson in gratitude, perhaps?

Thankfulness featured prominently in Sunday School lessons back in the day.
 
It's kind of nice to have a more easily interpreted lesson today. Luke 16 certainly presented its challenges over the last few days.
 
Todays Scripture ----

Luke 17:1-19 GW

Causing Others to Lose Faith
17 Jesus told his disciples, “Situations that cause people to lose their faith are certain to arise. But how horrible it will be for the person who causes someone to lose his faith! 2 It would be best for that person to be thrown into the sea with a large stone hung around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to lose his faith. 3 So watch yourselves! “If a believer sins, correct him. If he changes the way he thinks and acts, forgive him. 4 Even if he wrongs you seven times in one day and comes back to you seven times and says that he is sorry, forgive him.”

The Apostles Ask for More Faith

5 Then the apostles said to the Lord, “Give us more faith.”
6 The Lord said, “If you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you could say to this mulberry tree, ‘Pull yourself up by the roots, and plant yourself in the sea!’ and it would obey you.
7 “Suppose someone has a servant who is plowing fields or watching sheep. Does he tell his servant when he comes from the field, ‘Have something to eat’? 8 No. Instead, he tells his servant, ‘Get dinner ready for me! After you serve me my dinner, you can eat yours.’ 9 He doesn’t thank the servant for following orders. 10 That’s the way it is with you. When you’ve done everything you’re ordered to do, say, ‘We’re worthless servants. We’ve only done our duty.’”

Ten Men with a Skin Disease Are Healed
11 Jesus traveled along the border between Samaria and Galilee on his way to Jerusalem. 12 As he went into a village, ten men with a skin disease met him. They stood at a distance 13 and shouted, “Jesus, Teacher, have mercy on us!”

14 When he saw them, he told them, “Show yourselves to the priests.” As they went, they were made clean. [a] 15 When one of them saw that he was healed, he turned back and praised God in a loud voice. 16 He quickly bowed at Jesus’ feet and thanked him. (The man was a Samaritan.)

17 Jesus asked, “Weren’t ten men made clean? Where are the other nine? 18 Only this foreigner came back to praise God.”

19 Jesus told the man, “Get up, and go home! Your faith has made you well.”

Footnotes:
  1. Luke 17:15 “Clean” refers to anything that Moses’ Teachings say is presentable to God.


unsafe says ----Jesus has made it very clear in the parable of the rich man and the beggar that eternity is for real and that no one will be coming back from hell to let us know what the place of torment is like so others can avoid being in the eternal torment side of eternity -----and the same goes for heaven no one will return to let us know what heaven holds for us ------ God describes in detail both places in His word and that is all we have to go by ----So believers need to be diligent to show Jesus to others on this side of our Physical lives because now counts --once we are out of this physical world as scriptures says ---we die once and are judged ---there is no inbetween or second chance for people -----


Verses 1-4 ----So we see in these verses ----that Jesus is speaking to His Disciples here and He is saying that sometimes situations can arise that will cause one to question OR loose their Faith ----but if it be a believer that causes that person to question or loose their Faith then He gives a grave warning to that believer -----and He tells them to watch themselves that when a brother or sister sins against them they are to correct that person and forgive them ----we are not to turn our heads and let the sin slid by we are to correct with a forgiving heart ------


unsafe says ----this is why it is so important for all True Christ--ians to make sure they Preach and teach the truth of Scriptures to others so we are not the cause of them stumbling and falling in their Faith ------ there are many --many who are causing a stumbling block to their Church by not Telling them that there is only one True Faith that will save them and that comes from hearing by way of God's word ----



In verses 5-10 ------We see the Disciples asking for more Faith ----and Jesus tells the a Parable ----

unsafe says --We see that the Disciples recognize that in order to be able to cope with this sin and forgiveness and not to take offence themselves they will need Great Faith in God to be able to handle themselves properly -----When we have a firm Faith and trust in God and His word it strengthens our relationship to God and gives us the confidence needed to endure the hardships that come against us -----we know we are not alone God is there with us to provide our way out ----and give us strength through His Grace to forgive those who have wronged us ------

This is a very Freeing feeling for those believers who have this kind of faith and trust in God and His Grace ----

God's Mustard seed Faith is like dynamite when we put that Faith into the right action ------it will move your mountain --(-bad situation ) etc straight out of the way so victory is obtained -----we should never underestimate Faith ---it is powerful when it is the right kind of Faith ------Great works are possible with mustard seed faith ----

Verses 7-10 ----unsafe says ------We are God's servants and He has called us to serve Him ----God owes us nothing He has given us everything we have ----Jesus is our Lord and Saviour and serving Him is no easy task ---Plowing a field is hard work -tending sheep is exhausting and both these need a person who has patients and a keen eye and a caring heart along with great stamina to stay the course ----There is always something for us to do to serve God and we do it cause God loved us first and our love for God moves us to serve Him graciously without complaints and with the right attitude ----

When we realize what God has done for us by and through His Son ---True Believer will serve Him with an attitude of Gratitude -----The work we do is like a speck of dust compared to what Jesus did for us ------


Verses 13-19 -----The healing of the 10 Lepers -----

unsafe says -----We see out of the 10 only 1 gives thanks -----We see that they all cried out to be cleansed and Jesus sends them off to the priest --these men were really bonded by their misery in their disease ---- when Jesus sent them to the Priest to be cleansed they all went (obeyed )without question so this proves their Faith in Jesus to know that He could heal them ----

And here is the rest of the story -----the foreigner was the only one who came back to thank God and give Him the Glory for his healing -----the other nine just preformed their Religious duty by obeying the command to go to the Priest ---they had faith in Jesus to heal but their attitude of gratitude was all twisted in the wrong direction ----- they had whole bodies from their healing but their hearts remained SICK ----

The Foreigner ended up better than the others because Jesus healed the persons heart upon his arrival to give thanks --showing an attitude of Gratitude -----



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Summary: Luke 17: 20 - 37

Jesus was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming. He responds that it is not coming with things that can be observed, for in fact, it is already among you.

The days are coming, He tells them, when they will long to see the days of the Son of Man and they will not see it. They are not to pursue it and it will arrive dramatically. But first the Son of Man must endure much suffering and be rejected by this generation.

The coming of the Son of Man is compared to the days of Noah and the days of Lot.

On that day, there will be no turning back. Those who try to make their life secure will lose it and those who lose their life will keep it.

Some will be taken and some will be left.

They asked Jesus where and He answered, "Where the corpse is, there the vultures will gather."
 
Reflection: Luke 17: 20 - 31

Interesting that the Pharisees are told the kingdom of God is already among them before Jesus describes the coming of the Son of Man.

The text certainly implies that there will be judgement at that time but we are not told anything about the basis for it. At night there will be two people in a bed; one will be taken and one will be left. There will be two women grinding meal together; one will be taken and one will be left.

In typical Jesus fashion, He turns our expectations upside down. Those who try to make their life secure will lose it and those who lose their life will keep it. Again I wonder if He is saying that it will all be up to God and we cannot predict God's judgement.

If the kingdom of God was already among the Pharisees, was it like the mustard seed (from yesterday's reading)? Just the genesis of the kingdom?

Do you think Jesus really prophesied His second coming? Or were these words put in His mouth as a faith testimony of the gospel writers? (I am already imagining the response of the evangelical voices here on this thread.) ;)

Is the kingdom of God already among us today? What do you think this means?

Why does Jesus talk about vultures gathering around a corpse? Does He mean His own body?
 
Seems the Kingdom of God can be among us if it starts from within us and through us becomes visible.
Agreeing with this idea and really liking it.

Often in scripture, the kingdom of God is presented as a future event. Something that will be heralded in by the second coming of the Son of Man. A new heaven and a new earth.

But a few texts (such as today's) suggest otherwise. I remember a sermon from years ago where it was emphasized that the present day is part of eternal life.

And Jesus often talks in parables about the kingdom. What an enigmatic character He was!

I have a put a hold at the library on Amy-Jill Levine's book about the parables. There are a few copies in circulation and I am at the top of the hold list. The book doesn't cover all the parables but the first chapter is about the lost sheep, the lost coin and the prodigal son. Looks promising!
 
Summary: Luke 17: 20 - 37

They asked Jesus where and He answered, "Where the corpse is, there the vultures will gather."
There was a segmant of Christianity that put more emphasis on the spiritual, dreams and visions.....in other words a "knowing" of the divine.....less emphasis on the material body and more likely the knowing will continue and not be left behind.
 
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