Bible Study Thread: Luke

[GordW]

Which would be a totally dishonest interpretation.

Ties in quite well with the story of Zaccheus in Luke 19 where Jesus says "For the Son of Man came to seek out and to save the lost" Luke 19:10

oremus Bible Browser : Luke 19

ANd in some translations (Matthew 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.) Matthew has Jesus saying the same thing in Matthew 118:11 just before talking about a shepherd going out to search for a lost sheep -- The NRSV (oremus Bible Browser : Matthew 18) omits verse 11 altogether so I suspect the manuscript evidence for that one is conflicted.

 

[unsafe]

Greek word for parable -----

https://biblehub.com/greek/3850.htm

Strong's Concordance
parabole: a parable, comparison
Original Word: παραβολή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine

Definition: to expose oneself to danger

Usage: (a) a comparison, (b) a parable, often of those uttered by our Lord, (c) a proverb, an adage.
HELPS Word-studies

3850 parabolḗ (from 3844 /pará, "close beside, with" and 906/bállō, "to cast") – a parable; a teaching aid cast alongside the truth being taught. This casts additional light by using an arresting or familiar analogy, (which is often fictitious or metaphorical, but not necessarily).

 

[GordW]

In case anyone is interested...
BY happenstance (or maybe @paradox3 carefully planned it this way) in churches that follow the RCL the Gospel reading for Lent 4 this year--which is March 31-- is Luke 15:1-3, 11b-32. The Parable of the Lost Son(s) (better known as the Parable of the Prodigal Son)

 

[blackbelt1961]

Which would be a totally dishonest interpretation.

I interpret what you said above to mean that you hate paradox3 because of the way she is running this study. Your way is the ONLY way.

Which would be a totally dishonest interpretation.

I interpret what you said above to mean that you hate paradox3 because of the way she is running this study. Your way is the ONLY way.

Your partner comes back to you after having a few affairs none of them worked out so he comes back to you but he has not repented , he doesn't feel sorry for what he's done to you and you accept him with open arms right?

A relationship takes two not one if you're not repented towards God you have no relationship

 

[paradox3]

It's a happy co-incidence @GordW.

I noticed earlier this week that the Parable of the Prodigal Son is our text and sermon topic for Sunday. So I decided to cover the lost sheep and the lost coin parables separately today. Tomorrow I will post about the prodigal son and I am planning to give it two days here. We'll see if anyone has any additional insight to share after church on Sunday.

The only other time this has happened was the genealogy in Matthew 1. I purposely held off on starting the Matthew thread for a few days for this reason. A few of my minister's comments influenced my reflections IIRC.

I am planning to arrive at the Palm Sunday, Good Friday and Easter narratives on the respective days.

We had the Good Friday story from Matthew at the end of the Christmas season. I remember finding it quite difficult to read and contemplate at that time.

 

[paradox3]

The interesting thing about the three parables that make up Luke 15 is that while there is mention in the first two of repentance all three are about the lost ones who are searched for, the Sheep and the Coin are not able to do anything to repent.

Yes, an interesting feature of the stories, which makes them quite different from the third parable in the series.

The sheep could have gone astray under its own steam but I don't think we can hold it responsible if the shepherd was not doing his job. The one looking after the sheep is an irresponsible fellow when you think about it. Would the ninety-nine left in the wilderness not have been vulnerable to wolves and other dangers?

Perhaps Jesus is using some of that hyperbole that we have talked about and demonstrating the extravagance of God's love.

The coin, on the other hand, could not have wandered off by itself. It seems to have been misplaced by the woman who goes looking for it. If the woman represents God, what does this say?

I am inclined to believe Jesus is emphasizing repentance but there are curious details in these stories.

 

[Redbaron]

Issues like that are likely why these stories are parables, rather than allegories, where each detail means something. The emphasis seems, for Jesus, to be on the joy of finding, rather than the details of through whose carelessness things got lost.

 

[unsafe]

blackbelt1961 ----your quote ------A relationship takes two not one if you're not repented towards God you have no relationship

Great Statement -----Amen to that Brother

 

[Carolla]

this showed up on my e-mail feed today ... thoughtful reflection on tomorrow's scripture. (P3 - if I'm jumping the gun, let me know & I will delete until Sunday) The Prodigal's Brother

 

[GordW]

The sheep could have gone astray under its own steam but I don't think we can hold it responsible if the shepherd was not doing his job. The one looking after the sheep is an irresponsible fellow when you think about it. Would the ninety-nine left in the wilderness not have been vulnerable to wolves and other dangers?

IT seems plausible the shepherd was inattentive, but not necessarily. Sheep sometimes wander. ANd that does not necessarily mean the sheep is at fault either. SOmetimes things happen and no one can be blamed. The 99 left in the wilderness are an interesting question. Are we to assume that they have strength in numbers and will protect each other? Or is this another example of the logic of the Gospel confounding the logic of the world?

 

[BetteTheRed]

But the stories suggest a God (if one assumes that God is the shepherd, the woman and the father -- common interpretations but maybe not the only ones since parables are not analogies?) who searches and searches and welcomes with or without repentance.

There is no suggestion in either of these that sheep or coins can or should repent. And in the latter, which we're not discussing yet, the father runs to welcome his son not knowing of his attitude.

 

[Waterfall]

I'd like to know who owned the sheep? Was it the shepherd or did the shepherd work for someone and tended the sheep for that person? In other words is Jesus considered God in this story or has He been appointed to protect His people by God?
In the Old Testament we have Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses,Joseph, and David...all who were shepherds chosen by God to lead His people.
Was Jesus mission to go out and find and bring back the 10 lost tribes of Israel maybe?

Coin parable....10 coins and one was lost.

 

[unsafe]

Waterfall ----your quote ----I'd like to know who owned the sheep


unsafe says ------in order to know who the Shepard is and who the sheep are in the Bible you need to know what the Hebrew or Greek meaning is for the word Shepard and sheep -----these will tell you

The Bible is a spiritual book and will always point to God and salvation ------From Genesis to Revelations it is all about the coming of Jesus Christ and why He is Coming then the arrival of His coming and the purpose of His coming ----

The Parables always point to Jesus and salvation in some spiritual way because that is why Jesus came -----The Shepard is always Jesus in the parables -------The True sheep are the believers who follow Jesus ----

Strong's Concordance
poimén: a shepherd
Original Word: ποιμήν, ένος, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: poimén
Phonetic Spelling: (poy-mane')
Definition: a shepherd
Usage: a shepherd; hence met: of the feeder, protector, and ruler of a flock of men.
HELPS Word-studies
4166 poimḗn – properly, a shepherd ("pastor" in Latin); (figuratively) someone who the Lord raises up to care for the total well-being of His flock (the people of the Lord).


Strong's Concordance
probaton: a sheep
Original Word: πρόβατον, ου, τό
Definition: a little sheep
Usage: a sheep.
HELPS Word-studies
4263 próbaton – sheep; (figuratively) someone easily led, one way or the other (like a sheep).

sheep, is used of the followers of any master: of mankind, who as needing salvation obey the injunctions of him who provides it and leads them to it; so of the followers of Christ:


unsafe says ----So a True Christ-ian Minister ---Priest is the Shepard of their Church who are the sheep that the Minister is suppose to lead to the right path to be saved ----- if one sheep gets lost from the right path the Shepard should do everything he or she can to get that sheep back on the right path ------

The Shepard has a very big responsibility ------as allowing the sheep to continue to be lost has grave consequences in their end -----and the Shepard has answer to God in their end for their allowing the lost to stay lost and not going after them to bring them back into the fold -----

 

[BetteTheRed]

We would all agree that sheep are very stupid animals, yes?

Why would one sheep, like unsafe, be less stupid than all of the other sheep?

 

[BetteTheRed]

Also, at least sometimes, in a world that was still largely a barter economy, sheep = cash. So valuable, even if stupid.

 

[Waterfall]

unsafe says ----So a True Christ-ian Minister ---Priest is the Shepard of their Church who are the sheep that the Minister is suppose to lead to the right path to be saved ----- if one sheep gets lost from the right path the Shepard should do everything he or she can to get that sheep back on the right path ------

The Shepard has a very big responsibility ------as allowing the sheep to continue to be lost has grave consequences in their end -----and the Shepard has answer to God in their end for their allowing the lost to stay lost and not going after them to bring them back into the fold -----

The parable doesnt work if Jesus is returning the sheep only to be butchered by the farmer....or are they all pets?

 

[blackbelt1961]

The parable doesnt work if Jesus is returning the sheep only to be butchered by the farmer....or are they all pets?

Because you don't want it to work The parable is not about the Sheep, unless you like shish kabobs, it's about

I was once lost but now I'm found

 

[paradox3]

Summary: Luke 15: 11 - 32

The Parable of the Prodigal and His Brother

There was a father who had two sons. The younger one requested his share of the inheritance which the father granted. A few days later the younger son gathered all his property and traveled to a far country, where he squandered everything in dissolute living.

A severe famine took place in that country and he began to be in need. He hired himself out to one of the citizens, who sent him to the fields to feed the pigs. He would gladly have eaten the pods being fed to the pigs but no one offered him anything.

The son began to think of his father's hired hands who had plenty of bread to eat. He decided to go to his father, confess that he had sinned and ask to be treated like one of the hired hands.

So he set off and went to his father. But while he was still far off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion. He put his arms around him and kissed him. The son said, "Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son; treat me like one of your hired hands."(v.21)

Immediately the father asked one of the slaves to bring the best robe and put it on his son, along with a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. Then he requested that the fatted calf be killed and eaten in celebration. For the son was dead and is alive again! He was lost and is found!

Now the elder son was in the field. When he came and approached the house, he heard music and dancing. He asked one of the slaves for an explanation and became so angry he refused to go in. His father began to plead with him.

The son protested that he had been working like a slave and had never disobeyed any command. Yet he had never been given as much as a young goat that he might celebrate with his friends. But when his brother returned, having devoured the property with prostitutes, the fatted calf was killed.

The father replied, "Son you are always with me. What is mine is yours. But we had to celebrate and rejoice, because this brother of yours was dead and has come to life. He was lost and has been found."(v.31-32)

 

[paradox3]

There is no suggestion in either of these that sheep or coins can or should repent. And in the latter, which we're not discussing yet, the father runs to welcome his son not knowing of his attitude.

Yes, that's right. We hear nothing of the sheep or the coin repenting in the first two parables. There is said to be rejoicing in heaven when sinners repent but the focus is on the lost being found.

At worst, the sheep is foolish and misguided. The coin is completely innocent, having been misplaced by its owner.

In the third parable, the son is clearly in error.

Maybe Jesus told the three stories together to illustrate that our intent does not matter to God.

Do you think that repentance and being found by God are one and the same?

Yes, the father greets the son and takes him in his arms before the son can say anything. Is the story telling us that God is willing to give us the benefit of the doubt, so to speak?

Lots to contemplate today and tomorrow. Since this story is in the RCL for tomorrow, I will wait until Monday to move onto the next chapter in Luke.

 

[paradox3]

Reflection: Luke 15: 11 - 32

And what are we to make of the elder son?

What if he did not appear in the story at all? Would it still be meaningful?

There is a real emphasis on repentant sinners in these three parables. There is more joy in heaven over one such person than over ninety-nine that have no need of repentance. As an abstract concept, this is not bothersome. But when it is personalized in the story of the two sons, it is so easy to sympathize with the resentment experienced by the eldest son.

Over and over in scripture we are told that God's judgement is not our judgement. It is a common theme in many parables . . . the laborers in the vineyard and Martha & Mary come to mind.

The message might be that we should concern ourselves solely with our own relationship with God. I am not sure, though, because I also believe we are called into community as people of God.