An article "The church is killing its gay kids"

Welcome to Wondercafe2!

A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!

Register Log in
My name is Bette, not Betty. Unless you'd like me to start calling you AyrCleane67.5.

I'm not particularly interested in knowing you, beyond being able to talk to you in something like a common English language, using something commonly referred to as logic.
 
blackbelt1961 said:
and yet Jesus quotes from that very book and Indicates that no word of Scripture will pass away
Click to expand...

Passing away is one thing. Deciding what the damn thing means is quite another. Many Jews have a completely different take on the Eden story than that self-righteous old reprobate, Augustine. It is commonly reviewed as a metaphor for humanity's rise into self-consciousness.
 
BetteTheRed said:
Passing away is one thing. Deciding what the damn thing means is quite another. Many Jews have a completely different take on the Eden story than that self-righteous old reprobate, Augustine. It is commonly reviewed as a metaphor for humanity's rise into self-consciousness.
Click to expand...

On its simplest read what did Jesus say about male and female being created?

Furthermore were talking about Christianity not Judaism mind you Messianic Jews agree with Jesus interpretation and so do Christians
 
Hi Unsafe --You have ask a question to me here . I will try and answer them for you Sister.


Ask yourself these questions ----

Is God responsible for babies born deformed some born with both male and female genitals -----Is God responsible for children being born with cancer ----heart problems ----spinal bifida -------mental and physical disabling conditions and confusion in gender and wanting to be with the same sex etc from an early age .[/QUOTE]

Airclea-- There times I believe GODS word tells us sins of the father or mother ,follow the child as a punishment. Adam and Eve seems to show this. .[/QUOTE]

.QUOTE
-----if you say yes then you are in fact blaming God for these conditions at birth and then your discarding God's word about how iniquity infiltrates the family ------If you say no that God is not responsible for children being born with these conditions then there is a reason for this happing ----and God gives us the reason ----in my opinion .[/QUOTE]

airclean--As you know sin is your choice and so it is not GOD who cause's sickness but you your self. We also know by what Christ Jesus said. Some sickness is to there to help you understand GOD is working with you.I believe parents who work though this . Have much more strength than I..[/QUOTE]

.QUOTE
God is not a God of confusion nor of imperfections ----- so why do these conditions occur at birth ???-------.[/QUOTE]

Airclean --Indeed we may ask why humankind come into this world by birth and as a child. Would we not look to Gen to find out why?.[/QUOTE]


.QUOTE
Ask yourself ---why did God impregnate a virgin---- no male sperm was allowed ---Why ???-----Jesus was born spotless ---holy-- no sin residue ----Adam messed up ---he was in charge ----it is the male sperm that is the bad seed and through it the sin nature is passed on .[/QUOTE]

----Airclean--As we know humankind is made of two parts . One of Flesh the other of Spirit.I believe Mary was of flesh was she not? GOD it would seem then put something in spirit inside Marry"s egg. These two then became GODS Son..[/QUOTE]

.QUOTE
You either believe this scripture or not ----we can either try to understand it or not that is up to us -----

Exodus 34:7------Numbers 14:18 ------Only when we accept Christ is our iniquity and sin put to rest ---- you will notice it says fathers--visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children- it doesn't say mothers and fathers -----.[/QUOTE]

Yet we find in Gen --It was both Mother and Farther who had sinned . Adam though had been in charge it would seen. As sin came from Him. As in the second Adam Jesus came Life. From Eve came bringing children into the world, in pain.

This is how I see it Sister. I hope it help"s. airclean33 Gord
 
airclean33 said:
I myself believe that children need to understand all sides of the questions before they really can make a choice on an informed opinion. A child dose not understand all rivers that push them around. In most cases do not understand good from evil. I know as a child the first time I stole something it was wrong. A small still voice inside , said what are you doing? hide for it is shame. That didn't stop me though ,I had sinned most of the sins before I was 25.But by Grace one day GOD put forth His hand an change my life.I understand it is not that way for every one. Each has there own walk with GOD. Some don't wish GOD" to walk with them . That is there choice, an they" are the one that must make it. But I believe at least that choice ,should be made with the understanding of both side's of the coin. I have a belief that the GOD I follow, LOVES all Humankind. He Loved me when I was in sin . I could not understand why though" I could not feel it. I do know now His Love though, for He is with me always and I with HIM.We all need to teach are children , that they should not shun or hit or make fun of others for what ever reason. The fathers and mothers of today , are the one's that must stand in front of there own child, and say (NO) this is wrong. Because you Love your children even as GOD Love's us. GOD stands in front of us and tells us. We have done wrong and must stop, for He wish"s us to know the LOVE He has for US.

Please understand --I am a Christian .I Believe The Bible is GODS Word and is true.Because of that I don't believe in the gay movement.I believe that people have a right to make there own choices how ever .
Click to expand...
 
RitaTG said:
Sorry unsafe ..... most christian youth group would be toxic poison to a LGBTQ person.
That is my point .... usually anything to do with christianity and the church is toxic to those that are LGBTQ.
These group would do the very opposite to what you are saying and offer only condemnation they call love.
Typically I would warn one of these young ones to stay away .....
Unfortunately they are far better off without.
These group do more to move a LGBTQ person towards suicide than away from it.
Thats the thing ....to find the strength and resolve most of the time we need we have to leave the christianity behind.
That is what I am hoping to help remedy.
Click to expand...

Rita, I find this post very upsetting. I realize that it was directed to unsafe but seems to speak about all Christians - quote 'we have to leave the christianity behind.'
For the past year I've been working on a committee in my congregation moving towards having our church become officially affirming. For the fall we are working to have a school teacher involved with the Gay/Strait Alliance at a nearby high school speak to us during our morning worship service and answer questions during coffee hour. She special concern is homelessness among GLBT-- youth. But reading your comments and those of Chansen it seems that I've been wasting my time.
 
Seeler said:
Rita, I find this post very upsetting. I realize that it was directed to unsafe but seems to speak about all Christians - quote 'we have to leave the christianity behind.'
For the past year I've been working on a committee in my congregation moving towards having our church become officially affirming. For the fall we are working to have a school teacher involved with the Gay/Strait Alliance at a nearby high school speak to us during our morning worship service and answer questions during coffee hour. She special concern is homelessness among GLBT-- youth. But reading your comments and those of Chansen it seems that I've been wasting my time.
Click to expand...

Do keep in mind that @RitaTG herself is Christian so I am not entirely sure that she means ALL Christians or the attitudes and actions of Christians that have led to the state of affairs beings discussed; LGBTQ youth are often safer in a secular group than a Christian one. In her first sentence, she does say "most Christian youth group would be poison" not "Christian youth group would be poison" and, unfortunately, she may not be that far off the point. The Christianity she wants to leave behind would be the Christianity that treats LGBTQ as either abominations or diseased rather than as fellow human beings worth of being cared for and loved.
 
unsafe said:
Hi airclean33 ---your quote ------The fathers and mothers of today , are the one's that must stand in front of there own child, and say (NO) this is wrong.

Proverbs 4:7 says Wisdom is the principle thing so get wisdom and in all our getting get understanding ----

This is just my view and belief ---you may think different


While I agree that we as parents should be teaching our children what is right and wrong ----If we the parents don't have a connection with God and many --many parents don't ----they are in this world ways of doing and thinking and will teach their children the same as they do and believe ------Unless the parents have the Holy Spirit they are away from God and Satan is their god according to scripture -----

Ask yourself these questions ----

Is God responsible for babies born deformed some born with both male and female genitals -----Is God responsible for children being born with cancer ----heart problems ----spinal bifida -------mental and physical disabling conditions and confusion in gender and wanting to be with the same sex etc from an early age -----if you say yes then you are in fact blaming God for these conditions at birth and then your discarding God's word about how iniquity infiltrates the family ------If you say no that God is not responsible for children being born with these conditions then there is a reason for this happing ----and God gives us the reason ----in my opinion

God is not a God of confusion nor of imperfections ----- so why do these conditions occur at birth ???-------

Ask yourself ---why did God impregnate a virgin---- no male sperm was allowed ---Why ???-----Jesus was born spotless ---holy-- no sin residue ----Adam messed up ---he was in charge ----it is the male sperm that is the bad seed and through it the sin nature is passed on ----

You either believe this scripture or not ----we can either try to understand it or not that is up to us -----

Exodus 34:7------Numbers 14:18 ------Only when we accept Christ is our iniquity and sin put to rest ---- you will notice it says fathers--visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children- it doesn't say mothers and fathers -----

And this is not to be confused with the scripture Deuteronomy 24:16ESV / ---This is talking about sins that each one commits --this is different than iniquity --being passed on

“Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

So for me knowing this --a person at a young age who feels different in their bodies or has an attraction for the same sex could certainly be born with these tendency ----by and through iniquity being passed on ---and the parents being ignorant of God and His word are just as confused and some are hurt by the child's choice ---and most Christians are also ignorant as to this in scripture in my view

God Bless Brother
Click to expand...

So, you believe that not only does God not create people who are LGBT, that their being LGBT is not something God allowed, but also does not create people with disabilities?

John: 9, 2-3

"Rabbi, who sinned, this man, or his parents that he was born blind?"

"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him."
 
Hi airclean33 ----your quote -----Yet we find in Gen --It was both Mother and Farther who had sinned -----

This is where our understanding has to be brought in ------this is where we differ -----this is God's word

Genesis 3:13 ----God Arraigns Adam and Eve
…
12The man said, "The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me from the tree, and I ate."13Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?" And the woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."14The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, Cursed are you more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you will go, And dust you will eat All the days of your life;…

Eve was tempted to take the fruit and eat it --To be tempted is not a sin and to act on a temptation out ignorance is not a sin -Eve fell into transgression it was not done deliberate------God gave them a command not to eat the fruit ---he did not say to Eve do not let anyone tempt you into eating of the tree of good and evil she was deceived by Satan's putting doubt by through his questing ---You will not surely die ------So Eve got in trouble for giving the fruit to Adam not for being tempted by Satan and eating the fruit ---Adam was told not to eat the fruit Adam committed the sin by eating the fruit willfully ----

Eve for giving the fruit to Adam was arraigned by God but sin her seed in child birth was not affected -- Eve's pain in child birth was imputed and men will rule over women was imputed ------ Adam was in total charge of things -----the man is the head of the household --and God gave Adam complete control over the earth not Eve ---Eve was his helper

Paul addresses the issue of the woman is under the man -----

1 Timothy 2:8-15 amp

13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve;(A)
14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but [the] woman who was deceived and deluded and fell into transgression.(B)
15 Nevertheless [the sentence put upon women of pain in motherhood does not hinder their souls’ salvation, and] they will be saved [eternally] if they continue in faith and love and holiness with self-control, [saved indeed][a]through the Childbearing or by the birth of the divine Child.

Romans 5:19King James Version (KJV)

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.


Your Quote ----As you know sin is your choice and so it is not GOD who cause's sickness but you your self. We also know by what Christ Jesus said. Some sickness is to there to help you understand GOD is working with you.I believe parents who work though this . Have much more strength than I..[/QUOTE]

Show me the scripture where Jesus says this ----Some sickness is to there to help you understand GOD is working with you.I believe parents who work though this -----there is only one instance I am aware of where Jesus says --the man was born blind to so He could give glory to God through his healing ----I don't believe God inflicts sickness and disease on children to make the parents work through it --God wants all people healthy -- God tests us but He does not inflict us with disease ----- in my opinion


Deuteronomy 7:15Amplified Bible (AMP)

15 And the Lord will take away from you all sickness, and none of the evil diseases of Egypt which you knew will He put upon you, but will lay them upon all who hate you.


John 9:1-12GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

Jesus Gives Sight to a Blind Man

9 As Jesus walked along, he saw a man who had been born blind.2 His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, why was this man born blind? Did he or his parents sin?”

3 Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned. Instead, he was born blind so that God could show what he can do for him.4 We must do what the one who sent me wants us to do while it is day. The night when no one can do anything is coming.5 As long as I’m in the world, I’m light for the world.”

6 After Jesus said this, he spit on the ground and mixed the spit with dirt. Then he smeared it on the man’s eyes7 and told him, “Wash it off in the pool of Siloam.” (Siloammeans “sent.”) The blind man washed it off and returned. He was able to see.


God also says this -----Sickness and disease are listed as a curse --read Deuteronomy 28 ---No sickness or disease being inflicted is listed in the Blessings ---Health and a fruitful body is listed in the Blessings --

We think different in some areas is all ----God Bless Brother

 
Kimmio

I address your scripture in my post to airclean 33----Give me any other scripture where this is said ----it is a one time thing for Jesus to do His work --
 
Mendalla said:
The Christianity she wants to leave behind would be the Christianity that treats LGBTQ as either abominations or diseased rather than as fellow human beings worth of being cared for and loved.
Click to expand...

The only Christianity I know of that partakes in such activity Mendalla is Westboro Baptist. I suppose there must be others like them out there. However, in my experience, the vast majority of Christians do not engage in such treatment of anyone.
 
In case you want something a bit more mainstream, here's Franklin Graham in an interview with Sean Hannity:

Homosexuality is sin. Same-sex marriage is a sin against God.
Click to expand...

Does not get much clearer than that and I don't think Franklin is a member of Westboro.
 
Mendalla said:
Not Westboro: http://www.gty.org/resources/articles/A170/gods-plan-for-the-gay-agenda

Nor is this (note point 10 which clearly underlies the other points and is identified as the most important): http://www.tfpstudentaction.org/pol...-marriage-is-harmful-and-must-be-opposed.html

This isn't either: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils in America/Sodomy/born_gay.htm

That is about as much "Christian" (note the quotes) hate speech as I think this board can handle.
Click to expand...

Uh - thanks for the links Mendalla. I'll have to check them out later. Working on a couple of papers I have to submit tomorrow. I've already suggested that there are a few nutbars out there.
 
Mendalla said:
In case you want something a bit more mainstream, here's Franklin Graham in an interview with Sean Hannity:



Does not get much clearer than that and I don't think Franklin is a member of Westboro.
Click to expand...

Same sex marriage? You do realize that engaging in same-sex behavior is a different thing than is having a homosexual orientation. Right?
 
And you do realize that sentencing people to a lifetime of celibacy just because they're not straight is cruel and unusual punishment? You don't have to be "very" homophobic to be "too" homophobic for the mental health of youth. ANYTHING other than full acceptance as normal, sexual human beings is homophobia.
 
BetteTheRed said:
And you do realize that sentencing people to a lifetime of celibacy just because they're not straight is cruel and unusual punishment? You don't have to be "very" homophobic to be "too" homophobic for the mental health of youth. ANYTHING other than full acceptance as normal, sexual human beings is homophobia.
Click to expand...

Of course, there are some normal, sexual human beings who live happy celibate lives, and there are a few people with a homosexual orientation who believe that living a celibate life is the best way for them to serve God.
 
Hi Unsafe -- Your post--

Eve for giving the fruit to Adam was arraigned by God but sin her seed in child birth was not affected -- Eve's pain in child birth was imputed and men will rule over women was imputed ------ Adam was in total charge of things -----the man is the head of the household --and God gave Adam complete control over the earth not Eve ---Eve was his helper

Airclean So Unsafe are you saying you believe it was changed? If so please show me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top