An article "The church is killing its gay kids"

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Good discussion ..... but as Bette points out ...... all this wrestling with these very important concepts does not help the young ones with the topic of this thread. (Its ok ..... this is not a comment about derailing as I feel that conversations naturally evolve)
Let me try to add some more and tie all this in a bit....
We quibble about scripture and right down to individual words with their various meanings, culture, and context .... all well and good....
The problem is is that I have found a great reluctance for the conservative churches that I have approached to do the very same thing with the LGBTQ issue. The door to discussion is firmly closed. locked, and barricaded ..... the issue is already decided, final, and not open to anything further. This is the attitude that kills.
 
Here's an interesting thought: Say you're the parent of a high school student who is firmly in the closet and you don't even know. Which extracurricular group would offer your son or daughter the best support, a Christian club, or an atheist club? Which of those two clubs would you hope a potentially suicidal gay teen would seek support from?
 
chansen said:
Here's an interesting thought: Say you're the parent of a high school student who is firmly in the closet and you don't even know. Which extracurricular group would offer your son or daughter the best support, a Christian club, or an atheist club? Which of those two clubs would you hope a potentially suicidal gay teen would seek support from?
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If you didn't even know, you could hardly advise them to go to either kind of club. :rolleyes:
 
You're still not funny.

Seriously, which club, on average, do you think would have the best influence on a LGBT teen? Which would be more accepting? Which might put the kid at greater risk of a suicide attempt?
 
chansen said:
Here's an interesting thought: Say you're the parent of a high school student who is firmly in the closet and you don't even know. Which extracurricular group would offer your son or daughter the best support, a Christian club, or an atheist club? Which of those two clubs would you hope a potentially suicidal gay teen would seek support from?
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What exactly is an atheist club? because I'm thinking being a secular club doesn't necessarily mean that Christians/Muslims/religious persons won't be there does it? And being an atheist doesn't mean that one is necessarily exempt from being a bigot either, does it? I think there's a possibility that harm could be done within any organization. Sports for example, not always a venue that endorses/embraces a gay lifestyle, the army, service clubs (some), etc....

I think it's a proven fact that churches can also be included in this discrimination. Some churches will be more subtle....accepting the sinner but not the "sin", others will outright encourage abstinence...so different levels of intimidation. The part that must be hard for gay teens is determining how to figure out which churches are accepting of their lifestyle. You almost have to put a sign on the door, like a block parent sign, to reveal which churches are offering safety.

And of course, any place that claims to be accepting will possibly still have it's bigots. We just have to get the kids through those tough years until they develop a confidence that helps them to truly believe that they are loved. I really believe that it would be very important if you are a church offering affirmation to have some kind of group in place or at least host a discussion/activity group (with a competent leader) for these teens through the week.
 
chansen said:
Here's an interesting thought: Say you're the parent of a high school student who is firmly in the closet and you don't even know. Which extracurricular group would offer your son or daughter the best support, a Christian club, or an atheist club? Which of those two clubs would you hope a potentially suicidal gay teen would seek support from?
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Before reading any further comments -

It would depend upon the club.
Christian - it would depend upon the denomination, and within the denomination it would depend on which church. I can think of three UCC churches in my immediate vacinity where I would expect a closeted teeen would find acceptance and support. The problem is that it might be difficult for those outside the church to identify these churches. Two are presently working on becoming Affirming - another has an openly GLBT minister.
Atheist - I am not aware of any specifically atheist clubs in this area. If you mean simply any 'non church' group - like a sports team, science club, or debating club, or service organization like the FoodBank or Habitant for Humanity - I would imagine that they would find some people supportive, some hostile and threatening, and some indifferent - and that the club or organization ddidn't have this on their agenda. I know that the two students who rented rooms from me (both atheist - one anti-church and the other indifferent) were both very anti-gay.

So if I were a parent of a cchild who was withdrawn and seemed depressed and who I suspected might be GLBT-- I wouldd probably try to get him involved in some sociaal activity - a sports team or a school activity, maybe the drama club. And I would also try to get him involved with the youth of my church - including eveents sponsored by the wider church (like Youth Forum at Conference). If I thought he was suicidal I would be phoning the suicide hot line and/or contacting his doctor or the medical profession.
 
I think of the Affirm logo (we've got lots of them around) as the Block Parent sign of churches.
 
chanson your quote -----Here's an interesting thought: Say you're the parent of a high school student who is firmly in the closet and you don't even know. Which extracurricular group would offer your son or daughter the best support, a Christian club, or an atheist club? Which of those two clubs would you hope a potentially suicidal gay teen would seek support from?

This is my view

I would refer them to the ----Students working with Students

Agape Club ---The Agape Club is a Bible club where students come together and share their faith. It is design for students to become acquainted with others, build relationships, and encourage one another. Everyone is welcomed.

https://www.facebook.com/agapechristianclub

The LGBT community need to know through God's word that God loves them and they need to understand that they don't have to feel alone in this world even if their parents are against them --Their thoughts and feelings are valid and they can triumph over all the bull crap that so called Christians and non Christians and Religion can throw at them -----God's Grace is very powerful and can help them overcome all their weakness and that building a relationship with and accepting Jesus Christ with strengthen them in all areas of their life ------

They need to know that understanding what sin is and isn't and how sin affects our very being is important and understanding how God not humans deals with sin is very important to their existence ----they need to know that being sexual promiscuous is not acceptable in any group straight or gay --they need to know that there is a place for them in this world and they have to learn how to deal with the ridicule in a positive way ---they need support ---love and care just as all us humans do when we are depressed ----stressed out and feel unworthy to be on this planet .They need to know that helping others will help them to understand themselves better and give them self worth and strengthen their character --

Without God the LGBT community will be leaving themselves open to emotional destruction which can lead to suicide unless they are emotionally strong --

Good advice from Jazz ---

 
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We've got it outside by incorporating in on most pages we post on our electronic sign. And it's always on the bulletin, and there's some posted in corners of boards inside.
 
BetteTheRed said:
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We've got it outside by incorporating in on most pages we post on our electronic sign. And it's always on the bulletin, and there's some posted in corners of boards inside.
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That's beautiful, it's too bad the UCC couldn't find enough money to put that on an infomercial on TV in order to create a universal understanding for the youth and others to know what to look for when exploring their spirituality. Or even better get any denominations that are affirming to adopt this symbol also.
 
I'm hoping that we will be officially Affirming by next February or March, and then we will begin using the logo as well as the traditional rainbow. Our church seems reluctant to use the sign until we are officially Affirming. In the meantime I worry about how many youth (and those not so young) are struggling to find a spiritual home where they will be welcomed for who they are.
 
Waterfall said:
What exactly is an atheist club? because I'm thinking being a secular club doesn't necessarily mean that Christians/Muslims/religious persons won't be there does it? And being an atheist doesn't mean that one is necessarily exempt from being a bigot either, does it? I think there's a possibility that harm could be done within any organization. Sports for example, not always a venue that endorses/embraces a gay lifestyle, the army, service clubs (some), etc....

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thought this needed a re post

 
BetteTheRed said:
OK, so what do you do about translation? There are going to be words and concepts in ancient Greek, Hebrew and Latin that are going to be arguable in English. How do you discern the correct word of God? You can tell me it's Spirit-driven to your heart's content, but obviously the Spirit told three different bible translators that timsh'l means one of "must" "will" or "may".
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You have a good point which is why study of the translating is valuable as is being willing to acknowledge that past translators may have erred. I believe that God in inerrant but do not believe that human translators are, no matter how studied or well intentioned. Also there is history of people trying to shoe-horn their own beliefs into the Bible. People who believed in slavery believed that the Bible endorsed slavery. People who believed in segregation believed that the Bible endorsed segregation. Some people today try and claim their desire to deny equality to our gay brothers and sisters is endorsed by the Bible. I think thorough study of God's word does not support that argument and I think it's as self serving as the pro-slavery argument of 150 years ago or the pro-segregation argument of 75 years ago.
 
chansen said:
Here's an interesting thought: Say you're the parent of a high school student who is firmly in the closet and you don't even know. Which extracurricular group would offer your son or daughter the best support, a Christian club, or an atheist club? Which of those two clubs would you hope a potentially suicidal gay teen would seek support from?
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If the Christian club came from an affirming church, United Church of Christ, United Church of Canada, Presbyterian, Episcopalian, some Methodist churches (not the ones that are Baptist lite) or a number of others would be EXCELLENT to provide love and support to an LGBTQ youth. I'm not sure what an atheist club would entail but the first thing that comes to mind would be a Randian (Ayn Rand) mindset of everyone for themselves which I think would do more harm than good. I'm sure not every atheist is Randian but it seems to be in ascendance, at least in the U.S.
 
Pr. Jae said:
You are aware there are affirming Baptists, right?
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I'm not aware of any Southern Baptist churches that are affirming but if you say you've come across some I'll take your word for it. Of course there are about a thousand denominations that have Baptist in their name (so I've heard) so I'm sure some are. I've heard that Northern Baptist (sometimes called American Baptist) is generally more progressive so maybe that's a good bet.
 
I myself believe that children need to understand all sides of the questions before they really can make a choice on an informed opinion. A child dose not understand all rivers that push them around. In most cases do not understand good from evil. I know as a child the first time I stole something it was wrong. A small still voice inside , said what are you doing? hide for it is shame. That didn't stop me though ,I had sinned most of the sins before I was 25.But by Grace one day GOD put forth His hand an change my life.I understand it is not that way for every one. Each has there own walk with GOD. Some don't wish GOD" to walk with them . That is there choice, an they" are the one that must make it. But I believe at least that choice ,should be made with the understanding of both side's of the coin. I have a belief that the GOD I follow, LOVES all Humankind. He Loved me when I was in sin . I could not understand why though" I could not feel it. I do know now His Love though, for He is with me always and I with HIM.We all need to teach are children , that they should not shun or hit or make fun of others for what ever reason. The fathers and mothers of today , are the one's that must stand in front of there own child, and say (NO) this is wrong. Because you Love your children even as GOD Love's us. GOD stands in front of us and tells us. We have done wrong and must stop, for He wish"s us to know the LOVE He has for US.

Please understand --I am a Christian .I Believe The Bible is GODS Word and is true.Because of that I don't believe in the gay movement.I believe that people have a right to make there own choices how ever .
 
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