An article "The church is killing its gay kids"

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Jon71 said:
Sadly people want God to endorse their pettiest prejudices. Back in the bad old days of Jim Crow the segregationists quoted the Bible every chance they got to "prove" that God agreed with them and if anyone disagreed with them they were disagreeing with God too. Of course they were twisting and perverting the scripture and we know that now but so many people accepted that in the day. 50 to 100 years from now the anti-gay rights people will be viewed exactly like the segregationists are viewed today.
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letting something go does not mean ones stance is incorrect as per scriptures , what it does mean is that one gives allowance for Grace to operate
 
unsafe said:
Well Pr.Jae ---I could be very confused about that -----I may be missing something here -----maybe you can set me straight ---in your opinion Does RitaTG believe that the LGBTQ community are born the way they are and can't be changed because God has blessed them in the womb to be gay ---trans ---bi-- upon birth or is the belief that they are born not that way and choose to become that way themselves as they mature -----which if is the case they could be changed from their LGBTQ position to become Heterosexual ------

This is RitaTG quote to me page 44------I feel sorry for you .... that you feel that your being gay is a curse ...... I feel sorry for you indeed....

So if she feels it is not a curse then she feels it is a blessing -------the question is are we under the Curses when born or are we under the Blessing ----you can't separate in what condition we are born in from how we develop ---in my opinion ---- we for we are all going to be born under the same rule are we not --- -------so the Blressing means we are in Christ and being obedient to His word ----the Curse means we are not in Christ and we are disobedient to His word -----so which is it -----Are we born from the womb with Christ and the Blessing built in already to obey and follow His ways ---- or are we born from the womb away from Christ and the curse is already built in to follow our human desires and our ways ------

If we are born with Christ then we have God's DNA in us already and are Spiritually perfected at birth ------in my opinion ----so where does the LGBTQ community fit -----born with a perfected Spirit or born with a fallen spirit -----it has to be one or the other ----

This of course just my take on it ---If I am way off base let me know ------
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As I understand it unsafe, @RitaTG doesn't view LGBTQ as being a sin. I don't know where she stands on the doctrine of original sin.
 
RitaTG said:
I have to see this through as long as there are churches that harm LGBTQ youth with their doctrine.
I just have to .....
Yes the beliefs are disgusting and also very damaging ..... the doctrines need to be challenged.
This it seems is work for me .... this is a cause for which a fire burns within me that I cannot ignore.
Please labour on the cause for which a fire burns within your heart.....
There is plenty of work to do to go around :)
Hugs
Rita
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A kid and his dad were walking beside the ocean. As the kid saw starfish he would pick them up and toss them back into the ocean. His father asked him why he was doing that, after all "you can't save them all". The kid picked up a starfish and looked at it for a minute. "I can save this one" he said, and tossed it in the ocean.
 
Pr. Jae said:

The focus of the Church, I feel, should be on participating in the Missio Dei - God's mission to lovingly redeem all of humanity unto himself. That mission should properly include doing ministry with everyone who wants to get involved. Sorry - don't know how to turn the "bold" off using my Windows Phone.
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Yes. I really hope that the so called "religious right" gets completely destroyed for two reasons. First, their politics are disastrous in and of itself. Secondly (and more relevantly) if they lose so completely that they have to give up on anti-abortion and anti-gay rights politics maybe they'll fall back to telling people "Jesus loves you". I hope once the politics/doctrinism is gone what you call Missio Dei becomes the focus. What any person hurting needs to hear isn't doctrine, it's Jesus loves you, I love you, you are safe and accepted here.
 
Pontifex Geronimo 13 said:
You are really obsessing over this 0.5%.
You also obsess over 43%.
If astronauts had a 43% probability of blowing up on takeoff, I think they would stop all space travel to fix what was broke.

If you search YouTube for homosexual testimony, you will get not 0.5%, but 100% success rate of salvation through Jesus Christ. Wondering if they are all liars?

If a group is known to have a 43% danger of suicide, and you want to do something about that, seriously, instead of blaming the church, shouldn't the government and medical communities identify these people and monitor them until they are out of danger. The church is against all types of sex before marriage, so if the church was in fact the cause of these suicides, all unmarried youth engaging in sexual activity should be running a suicide rate around 43%.

I would suggest that the numbers don't support you allegations.
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Let's cut to the chase. Hateful attitudes like yours directed to LGBTQ people are the most primary cause of those suicides. Those deaths are on you and people like you. You know people are hurting and your only response is to throw verbal vitriol in their face.
 
Pr. Jae said:
The 0.5% is Exodus International's as reported by RitaTG. Pontifex is now claiming a 100% success rate based on YouTube videos.

RitaTG - how do you account for the success rate that exists? If things are as you say, shouldn't the rate be 0%?

Pontifex - you really want us to believe there are _no_ videos that talk about "cure" failures?
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The primary effect of Exodus International was to drive people back into the closet. I believe strongly the failure rate really was an absolute 0%. The .5% comes from people who are more comfortable being back in the closet, at least for the time being.
 
unsafe said:
BetteTheRed your quote -----And I'm telling you right now, unsafe, I won't be watching 2 hours of Miss Rosaria. I'm sure she's 'changed'; I'm equally sure she ain't straight.

This is what I think

This is the problem you and RitaTG are claiming that God can't change the heart of a person who is homosexual ----that prayer fails ----that when your a LGBTQ person your that way cause God Blessed you to be that way and therefore you are meant to be that way --- So all who are LGBTQ people are born perfect not broken in any way and without spot or blemish and it is only all others who are born under the curse not this Group of people -----

---
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Not "can't", "won't". Why would God have a problem with someone he made gay or bi or transgender being gay or bi or transgendered. No one is say God "can't" change people, God is omnipotent. God could change me into a one eyed one horned flying purple people eater if he wanted to but why would he. Why would God ever make a gay person straight or a transgendered person cis gendered. I interpret the absolute failure of people who try and change peoples sexual orientation to them being mistaken in thinking that God shares their prejudicial rejection of our fellow human beings. Bottom line, Exodus was never in line with God's wishes. Neither is anyone else seeking to "cure" or change how God made someone.
 
Pr. Jae said:
@unsafe - I can't recall anyone saying that LGBTQ people are born perfect. What have said is that being LGBTQ is in and of itself not a sin. There is significant difference between those two statements.
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Somehow the "issue" of homosexuality has taken on a life of its own and has become THE litmus test, and among certain Christians it seems that if you happen to believe that homosexuality is not a sin, then you must not believe that anything is a sin. It's a ridiculous idea, but it's been expressed by more than one person in this thread.
 
blackbelt your quote -----this thread just proves that all of humanity is in dire need of a Savior

Amen Brother -----
 
Pr.Jae your quote -----As I understand it unsafe, @@RitaTG doesn't view LGBTQ as being a sin. I don't know where she stands on the doctrine of original sin.

OK ---I see what you are saying ------Thanks for your answer ----she is separating the 2
 
RitaTG

Question for you -----So your view is that the LGBTQ community is blessed by God to be that way -----Please explain --1---- what process do you base this on ----2 ---- how you came to this conclusion and-- 3---- what is your stance on the original sin ------Is your stance Biblically based or Worldly based-- this might clear up my misunderstanding of why you see this as a blessing and not a curse as I see it ---and just maybe this will help me personally as I see it as a Generational curse ----

I thank you in advance for your time to answer my questions ------
 
So you, unsafe, honestly believe that you are gay because of something one of your ancestors did? Just to start with, that's extraordinarily disrespectful of your ancestors (and pretty hurtful to those of us who have gay kids, by the way). Secondly, Jesus spoke specifically to that 'theory' when he told the blind man he was not blind because of anything anyone had done.
 
Pontifex Geronimo 13 said:
You are really obsessing over this 0.5%.
You also obsess over 43%.
If astronauts had a 43% probability of blowing up on takeoff, I think they would stop all space travel to fix what was broke.

If you search YouTube for homosexual testimony, you will get not 0.5%, but 100% success rate of salvation through Jesus Christ. Wondering if they are all liars?

If a group is known to have a 43% danger of suicide, and you want to do something about that, seriously, instead of blaming the church, shouldn't the government and medical communities identify these people and monitor them until they are out of danger. The church is against all types of sex before marriage, so if the church was in fact the cause of these suicides, all unmarried youth engaging in sexual activity should be running a suicide rate around 43%.

I would suggest that the numbers don't support you allegations.
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I would suggest that the statistcs and research support my position rather adequately.
You have offered nothing to support yours.
Regards
Rita
 
Pr. Jae said:
The 0.5% is Exodus International's as reported by RitaTG. Pontifex is now claiming a 100% success rate based on YouTube videos.

RitaTG - how do you account for the success rate that exists? If things are as you say, shouldn't the rate be 0%?

Pontifex - you really want us to believe there are _no_ videos that talk about "cure" failures?
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Its easy Jae .... the failure rate should not be 100%
There are a few that for other reasons might feel they are gay when they really are not.
This can be for a variety of reasons and the conservative christian organizations that oppose gay rights have adequately covered those possible scenarios. But please keep in mind that those scenarios only apply to a very small portion of those that have LGBTQ issues. I would suggest that the 0.5% gives a very good indication of how many and that is being generous.
I hope that helps you understand.
 
unsafe said:
RitaTG

Question for you -----So your view is that the LGBTQ community is blessed by God to be that way -----Please explain --1---- what process do you base this on ----2 ---- how you came to this conclusion and-- 3---- what is your stance on the original sin ------Is your stance Biblically based or Worldly based-- this might clear up my misunderstanding of why you see this as a blessing and not a curse as I see it ---and just maybe this will help me personally as I see it as a Generational curse ----

I thank you in advance for your time to answer my questions ------
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Valid questions unsafe and I promise I will address them in detail.... and thank you so much for asking....
Right now I am under an incredible time crunch and I would like to defer answering until I have the time to dedicate to answering as I feel that is is a very valuable area to explore.
Thank you .... and I promise to address this as soon as I can.
Sincerely
Rita
 
unsafe said:
BetteTheRed your quote -----But if being gay were something that needed to be healed from, why DOES IT NEVER WORK.

You and RitaTG need to listen to a Lesbian who was so you can't say it NEVER WORKS ------Secret Thoughts Of An Unlikely Convert | Rosaria Butterfield



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0.5% does not say it never works ... what it says is that it very very rarely works.
And we will see with ones like this.
I have seen time and again where ones claiming success only a few years later find out it was just wishful thinking.
After 32 years in evangelical churches I have seen so very often sincere testimonies that turned out to be more wishful thinking that they were reality.
 
Pr. Jae said:
I truthfully can't help but feel sorry for the people of Exodus International. They invested time, energy, and money into doing what they thought was right - only to see their project fail. I hope they have all found new ministries to involve themselves in.
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Most have Jae .... they are now helping LGBTQ persons live the gift in wonderful ways :)
 
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