Alberta Election

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You raise the minimum wage to $15. All those people currently earning more than minimum expect the same differential. And a marginal business can only make that happen by increasing revenue...

certinly increasing the amount people have to spend will have a stimulus effect. But a major increase will have to be funded from somewhere.
 
GordW said:
You raise the minimum wage to $15. All those people currently earning more than minimum expect the same differential. And a marginal business can only make that happen by increasing revenue...

certinly increasing the amount people have to spend will have a stimulus effect. But a major increase will have to be funded from somewhere.
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They may expect the same differential but it doesn't mean they should get the same differential. The whole point is that the minimum wage is not even close to a living wage.
 
Government spending is also what broke the depression in 1939. Cutting services does not work. Firing people does not work. It never has.

On a more disturbing note, it seems that most of the NDP winners were people of front-line calibre (though they lost) in the last federal election. Now - can the NDP get a sufficient number of quality candidates to win federal seats as well? they don't have much time to get their pieces in place.
 
Kimmio said:
They may expect the same differential but it doesn't mean they should get the same differential. The whole point is that the minimum wage is not even close to a living wage.
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Practically speaking you pay the differential or you end up with a lack of staff.
 
Graeme Decarie said:
Government spending is also what broke the depression in 1939. Cutting services does not work. Firing people does not work. It never has.

On a more disturbing note, it seems that most of the NDP winners were people of front-line calibre (though they lost) in the last federal election. Now - can the NDP get a sufficient number of quality candidates to win federal seats as well? they don't have much time to get their pieces in place.
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Of course that particular government spending was spurred by WW2....I don't see this federal government spending to that level.
 
GordW said:
Practically speaking you pay the differential or you end up with a lack of staff.
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Not necessarily. We once had a minister who was hired for $xxxx which was a percentage above the basic set by the UCC for ordained clergy with her years of service. The UCC raised its basic salary scale. She expected her salary to be increased, and she complained loudly when it was not. "I'm supposed to be paid xxx% above the minimum." And she was told, "No. You asked for and received a contract is for $xxxx. It is not tied to the basic salary." (She was still above the basic but not by as much.) She stayed with us for several more years -- the traditional turn-over time in this congregation.)
 
Seeler said:
Not necessarily. We once had a minister who was hired for $xxxx which was a percentage above the basic set by the UCC for ordained clergy with her years of service. The UCC raised its basic salary scale. She expected her salary to be increased, and she complained loudly when it was not. "I'm supposed to be paid xxx% above the minimum." And she was told, "No. You asked for and received a contract is for $xxxx. It is not tied to the basic salary." (She was still above the basic but not by as much.) She stayed with us for several more years -- the traditional turn-over time in this congregation.)
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That won't happen under the new system. The new form (PR450) requires that the percentage premium over minimum be stated on the form. Congregations will be required to keep the minister's salary at whatever percentage above minimum the minister started at. In the old system that was a mistake on the part of the minister, who should have insisted that the percentage premium above minimum be appended as an additional term of the call.

I got stuck in that situation in my second pastoral charge. I negotiated a salary above minimum and then never, ever, got a raise in 8 years because the minimum never quite caught up to the dollar figure on my call form. I loved the charge, stayed longer than the average and understood that it was my mistake in negotiating. And fundamentally it's not about the salary. Having said that, quite frankly it wouldn't have hurt that charge (or yours) to have matched the cost of living increases the UCC decided on. I still look back with fond memories to those eight years, but I also reflect on the fact that they were quite satisfied watching my family fall behind and increasingly struggle as my salary didn't rise with inflation or cost of living.

Even though your former minister stayed several more years, it might still be interesting to know what she thinks of your charge at least in regards to that particular issue.
 
The bible says we should receive just what is needed ... and thus the exclusion of absolute monarchs ... giving rise to metaphysical royalty as thoughts in roués ... of the humble come down ... when people begin to understand subtle English as not as old as de light ... an ancient warming love ... sort of rousing at 4 o'clock in the morning as an alien Don in of chimerii things ... that could warm your niche ... like Daniel in the pot belied stove ... sometime a clay oven for buns and Pi Zas ...


Avarice is a generation of those isolated on the other side ... no sense toe "M"! Thus they get the booty of the warring lady ... comes across as a kick in the dark ... a gift of the Shadow?
 
Do you believe in conscience as a portion of psyche? Without psyche what's left ... a state many people reside din ... pure nut'n ... tis a gape or devoid of the aughts ...
 
Did you know there is a class of people that say authority is devoid of a space for thought ... sort of A Theory on pathological sorts of cards inde loom ... prior weaving as insignificant ...
 
Have you never heard of the great weaver? That light essence that can surround the void ... Night of Stars ... Barcarolle? Some are beyond the song ...
 
revsdd said:
That won't happen under the new system. The new form (PR450) requires that the percentage premium over minimum be stated on the form. Congregations will be required to keep the minister's salary at whatever percentage above minimum the minister started at. In the old system that was a mistake on the part of the minister, who should have insisted that the percentage premium above minimum be appended as an additional term of the call.

I got stuck in that situation in my second pastoral charge. I negotiated a salary above minimum and then never, ever, got a raise in 8 years because the minimum never quite caught up to the dollar figure on my call form. I loved the charge, stayed longer than the average and understood that it was my mistake in negotiating. And fundamentally it's not about the salary. Having said that, quite frankly it wouldn't have hurt that charge (or yours) to have matched the cost of living increases the UCC decided on. I still look back with fond memories to those eight years, but I also reflect on the fact that they were quite satisfied watching my family fall behind and increasingly struggle as my salary didn't rise with inflation or cost of living.

Even though your former minister stayed several more years, it might still be interesting to know what she thinks of your charge at least in regards to that particular issue.
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At the risk of derailing this thread - I think I would rather risk finding out what this particular individual thought of the charge than of what the majority of the people in the charge thought of her. Incidentally I don't believe that charge has ever before or since committee to paying more than the suggested basic. Quite frankly, they couldn't not afford to do otherwise, and in her case I think the considered it a one time thing.
 
Seeler said:
At the risk of derailing this thread - I think I would rather risk finding out what this particular individual thought of the charge than of what the majority of the people in the charge thought of her. Incidentally I don't believe that charge has ever before or since committee to paying more than the suggested basic. Quite frankly, they couldn't not afford to do otherwise, and in her case I think the considered it a one time thing.
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And if that's understood going in, that's fine. The real question is whether it was understood. My point is that it can't happen under the new system. If you start with a premium you have to maintain the premium.
 
Seeler said:
Not necessarily. We once had a minister who was hired for $xxxx which was a percentage above the basic set by the UCC for ordained clergy with her years of service. The UCC raised its basic salary scale. She expected her salary to be increased, and she complained loudly when it was not. "I'm supposed to be paid xxx% above the minimum." And she was told, "No. You asked for and received a contract is for $xxxx. It is not tied to the basic salary." (She was still above the basic but not by as much.) She stayed with us for several more years -- the traditional turn-over time in this congregation.)
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That's still different from minimum wage though, isn't it? The basic salary scale would still account for someone who has certain skills. Did this minister have all that much above & beyond, and were the places for her to go elsewhere?

Many people being paid above minimum wage get it because they do above the minimum - they have something that makes them more valuable. There are also numerous jobs that pay a bit more than minimum.

I'm of the opinion that someone who is at a point in their lives where they are working for a living should be at a point above the very basic. They shouldn't be earning minimum wage.
 
Seeler said:
Not necessarily. We once had a minister who was hired for $xxxx which was a percentage above the basic set by the UCC for ordained clergy with her years of service. The UCC raised its basic salary scale. She expected her salary to be increased, and she complained loudly when it was not. "I'm supposed to be paid xxx% above the minimum." And she was told, "No. You asked for and received a contract is for $xxxx. It is not tied to the basic salary." (She was still above the basic but not by as much.) She stayed with us for several more years -- the traditional turn-over time in this congregation.)
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I am not sure that is a relevant example. As one business owner pointed out--if someone can make close to the same amount and stay at home or work an easier job because I don't HAVE to pay the differential when minimum wage goes up why would they take the camp job I am trying to fill?

Of course the labour market makes a big different. Alberta often has a labour shortage. (which also means that while minimum wage may be lower than most places, a whole lot fewer people (on a %age basis) are actually working for minimum wage.

AS an aside. I find it ethically questionable to not maintain the differential either between a wage and provincial minimum wage or to hire at x% above UCCan minimum and then not to maintain that agreement even if minimum changes. I was called at 10% above category minimum. They ave since increased to 20% above minimum. When we change to the new salary next year the differential (using 2015 numbers) would be about 16%. Which is still allowed and fine by me becasue it is not a cut, nor is it in contravention of the emplolyment/call agreemnet. If the differential wsas lower than 10% I would not only expect but require the top up to be made (as would my M&P committee in this place)
 
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If one has the gift to put more into the system ... should one depend on accrued results, profits alone?

In the present ... business of this sort roués ... perhaps a ridiculous ruse ... or a distant Reuben ... without a depth of thought hoo'd gnoe ...

Of course do we cut costs for health benefits or to accumulate funds ... does this relate to fu' de, shelter and cloaking allowances in the subversive world of lesser beings ...

Unthinkable !
 
I hate to break this trend to discussion of clerical salaries, presumably in reaction to the NDP victory in Alberta. Just a couple of things
1. The NDP has now lost almost all its best-known candidates to be members of the Alberta government. So how do they build up a replacement set by - well - right now...
2. The NDP won partly by moving to the centre. That means it is quite limited in what it can do. The British Labour party won under Tony Blair by moving to the centre. Result? The British people got nothing out of it but a war criminal prime minister. And the Labour party just lost - again.
 
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