Was Jesus a Vegetarian?

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Pr. Jae said:
It's those Free Methodists, isn't it j/k. Christians are the #1 persecuted faith group in the world RitaTG.
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i hear ya -- it doesn't help that there are self-loathing people in our countries who won't stand up for their fellow Christian or who really seem to get off on hating humanity *cue 'Feelings, nothing more than feelings song*...so what do you think can be done?
 
Mendalla said:
There are many meat eaters in the world that do not engage in organized, genocidal violence, only the violence required for them to survive. Lions, tigers, sharks, etc. Why, then, do you think there is a relationship between eating meat and the kind of violence you are against?
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But the whole point is that no religion is immune from the Noahidic Laws. Even Islam has it's dietary laws and told not to kill. It was to cover all the of the people that came from Noahs time after the flood. If the whole world obeyed, there would be no more wars. Problems would have to be solved other ways. Look at the Quakers.
Islam chose Mohammed as it's major prophet, they should have chose Jesus. Even Christianity allowed Constantine to creep into it's fold and allow the justified war.
The relationship is pointing to why do we have to kill anything?
 
Inannawhimsey said:
i hear ya -- it doesn't help that there are self-loathing people in our countries who won't stand up for their fellow Christian or who really seem to get off on hating humanity *cue 'Feelings, nothing more than feelings song*...so what do you think can be done?
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Done? We are considered as sheep for the slaughter.
 
Mendalla said:
There are many meat eaters in the world that do not engage in organized, genocidal violence, only the violence required for them to survive. Lions, tigers, sharks, etc.
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If you were drafted, would you go?
The animals you describe are carnivores.
 
Waterfall said:
If you were drafted, would you go?
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No. Jail would be preferable. However, at 50, I'm over the age cutoff normally used for conscription. I am a meat-eating pacifist and have been for most of my life.

Waterfall said:
The animals you describe are carnivores.
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And all known members of the genus homo are omnivores and have been for at least 2.6 million years and probably longer, predating the evolution of our own species by well over a million years. We have specific adaptations to being meat eaters. The fact that we need vitamin B12 to survive which can only be obtained naturally from dairy and meat, for instance. Like it or not, meat eating is not a cultural thing, it is a biological one. We are not herbivores.
 
Pr. Jae said:
Done? We are considered as sheep for the slaughter.
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Yes, an attempt to deal with it -- to mitigate it -- to lessen it -- something that is observable, repeatable and testable, something that is actually happening as opposed to happening because of our viewpoint
No wishes or ideas (they don't have to be practical)?
There are people actively out there who are trying to deal with this, to mitigate it
 
RitaTG said:
Interesting .... but certainly not the case in North America....
Now to the more important question.
Does "winning" at being the most persecuted justify in any way christians persecuting others?
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Logically, Christians should persecute others to the same degree that Christ did.
 
RitaTG said:
Interesting .... but certainly not the case in North America....
Now to the more important question.
Does "winning" at being the most persecuted justify in any way christians persecuting others?
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Actually, not the most important question -- in that it would be a logical fallacy for the fact that Christians are the #1 persecuted faith group (by size) is rendered false and inconsequential by any Christian persecuting others :3

Its the same kind of silly fallacy that, say, someone who smokes can't be a good anti-smoking advocate -- one doesn't conflict with the other

This is a REAL problem that is challenging our western views -- we are supposed to be all aboot inalienable rights, acts are persected, not ideas, etc...and yet we have human beings with ideas that are causing Christians to be slaughtered & raped & etc

This doesn't mitigate the fact that people of other faiths are being persecuted

There are actual Truths in the world -- not everything is True...and we dwell in the messy middle :3

Have fun, folks!
 
Mendalla said:
No. Jail would be preferable. However, at 50, I'm over the age cutoff normally used for conscription. I am a meat-eating pacifist and have been for most of my life.



And all known members of the genus homo are omnivores and have been for at least 2.6 million years and probably longer, predating the evolution of our own species by well over a million years. We have specific adaptations to being meat eaters. The fact that we need vitamin B12 to survive which can only be obtained naturally from dairy and meat, for instance. Like it or not, meat eating is not a cultural thing, it is a biological one. We are not herbivores.
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Well there are a few plant sources for B12 and did we always need B12? I don't know. Didn't revdd post a website in Science magazine that states we may have originally been herbivores?
 
Now, have to figure out why God killed most of humanity in the flood, is He above the law, the law, .....hmmmm
 
Aren't gods and god's representatives above the law as the law devised by god s go ...?

Isn't that a devilish logic ... thus proving the definition of God's incarnation (appearances as isn't)?

Thus it is not so that god saves ... gods take a suggested in the bible on the rules, roués and laws of kings as god representatives and republicans that despise demos of the others ...

It that ABBA'd info ...?
 
Waterfall said:
So the Jews disagreed, and it was only Paul and Peter that argued the other way.
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At best we can say that there was disagreement and Peter and Paul went before the council at separate times to argue that Gentiles be exempt from Jewish practices. History suggests that Peter and Paul were more persuasive than those who argued for conversion to Judaism by Gentile believers.

Waterfall said:
Is that not the two of them arguing with God's covenant essentially?
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I'm sure that was an argument against. Paul being trained as a Pharisee would, one thinks, be inclined to lean that way and yet, he has a different read which is no less covenantal yet it opposes the ritualized component of the Jewish faith community as the only way God may be served and honoured.

In that I think he has a great deal of prophetic support in that the Prophets are extremely critical of folk simply going through the motions and not actually being mindful of what it is the rituals are meant to focus one's gaze upon. At that point the rituals are not entered into in order to honour God and acknowledge his sovereignty over creation they are the legalist trappings of acceptance which allows the leadership to act punitively and maintain domination rather than continuing to steward what rightly belongs to God.

Waterfall said:
Wasn't the Noahidic Law given to all living creatures?
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In that all now living are direct descendants of Noah (according to the narrative of scripture) the laws were given to all people and not all living creatures.

Waterfall said:
Not to mention, isn't there also a covenant given to the animals by God, essentially giving them equality with us?
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Hosea 2: 18 talks about God striking a covenant with the animals "on that day." Which leads me to believe it is a Messianic Covenant and one that is not yet in effect.

Hosea 2: 18 said:
I will make for you a covenant on that day with the wild animals, the birds of the air, and the creeping things of the ground; and I will abolish the bow, the sword, and war from the land; and I will make you lie down in safety.
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Which could be read to suggest a future vegetarian existence. I think that something of a stretch. The bow yes, it is a hunting tool, sword and war are not. I suspect that what is being promised here is that armies will not be marching across the face of the earth and wild animals will have relative peace as opposed to the commotion of large armies approaching from which there would be little refuge and, what armies travel on empty stomachs?

Waterfall said:
Does God break covenants?
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No record of God doing so in scripture. The testimony of Scripture is that God will not break the covenants that God enters into. While humanity routinely fails to honour their end of the covenants God invites them to enter into there is no record of God walking away from the covenants that God makes. A key component of many of the covenants God creates is a disciplinary component where God is permitted to get as smitey as God wishes with those who break the covenants they have entered into with God.
 
RevJohn said:


No record of God doing so in scripture. The testimony of Scripture is that God will not break the covenants that God enters into. While humanity routinely fails to honour their end of the covenants God invites them to enter into there is no record of God walking away from the covenants that God makes. A key component of many of the covenants God creates is a disciplinary component where God is permitted to get as smitey as God wishes with those who break the covenants they have entered into with God.
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Thank God
 
revjohn said:
Which could be read to suggest a future vegetarian existence. I think that something of a stretch. The bow yes, it is a hunting tool, sword and war are not. I suspect that what is being promised here is that armies will not be marching across the face of the earth and wild animals will have relative peace as opposed to the commotion of large armies approaching from which there would be little refuge and, what armies travel on empty stomachs?
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I'm with you on everything except this. A you say, the bow is a hunting tool. If the bow is to be abolished, then hunting is to be abolished. Isaiah 65:17-25 also seems to portray a future Kingdom of perfect peace with no killing, even among the animals. I think that if the Genesis creation narrative implies vegetarianism - which I think it clearly does - then it's not a stretch to suggest that God's ultimate purpose is to return creation to that state in which there is literally no killing - not even of animals.
 
revsdd said:
I'm with you on everything except this. A you say, the bow is a hunting tool. If the bow is to be abolished, then hunting is to be abolished. Isaiah 65:17-25 also seems to portray a future Kingdom of perfect peace with no killing, even among the animals. I think that if the Genesis creation narrative implies vegetarianism - which I think it clearly does - then it's not a stretch to suggest that God's ultimate purpose is to return creation to that state in which there is literally no killing - not even of animals.
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I'd be quite happy with that.

As noted it is a future time and we are in the here and now. The Noahide laws appealed to do not prohibit the killing of animals for food. They do direct us to minimize the pain and suffering. Which is not a call for vegetarianism.

Temple Grandin revolutionized the beef industry by revolutionizing the "humanity" of slaughterhouses. The fact remains that even human slaughterhouses are still houses of slaughter.

I also agree that the Genesis narrative does point strongly to vegetarianism.

Genesis 9 shows God giving every living and moving thing to humanity as food.

I would also agree that the Kingdom of God will be free of violence and no murder or killing will be found in it. I don't think that automatically invokes vegetarianism as food appears to be as necessary to the Kingdom as marriage will be.
 
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