Was Jesus a Vegetarian?

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revsdd said:
I'm with you on everything except this. A you say, the bow is a hunting tool. If the bow is to be abolished, then hunting is to be abolished. Isaiah 65:17-25 also seems to portray a future Kingdom of perfect peace with no killing, even among the animals. I think that if the Genesis creation narrative implies vegetarianism - which I think it clearly does - then it's not a stretch to suggest that God's ultimate purpose is to return creation to that state in which there is literally no killing - not even of animals.
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I agree with this, Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega. It leads me to think that we are to follow His ways. He is perfect and sinless. He showed us the way to turn away from evil and how to live. He didn't return evil for evil and he didn't kill....and I'm sure it angered anyone that made a living off of killing/sacrificing the animals or acquiring land and power from Wars through killing others.
The Romans accepted Jesus but it seems it was only if they could continue their own ways. They would wait for Heaven to arrive instead of realizing to make it happen they had to participate and live as if they were in the Kingdom now for it to happen.
It would be the same today, if we stopped killing the animals for food, clothing, makeup, etc....Christians would become the enemy of farmers who depended on this practice, the NRA, the cosmetic industry and governments whose power lies in the acquisition of property and money through the industry of War. The world as we know it would have to repent/change and most of us choose not to.
 
Waterfall said:
I agree with this, Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega. It leads me to think that we are to follow His ways. He is perfect and sinless. He showed us the way to turn away from evil and how to live. He didn't return evil for evil and he didn't kill....and I'm sure it angered anyone that made a living off of killing/sacrificing the animals or acquiring land and power from Wars through killing others.
The Romans accepted Jesus but it seems it was only if they could continue their own ways. They would wait for Heaven to arrive instead of realizing to make it happen they had to participate and live as if they were in the Kingdom now for it to happen.
It would be the same today, if we stopped killing the animals for food, clothing, makeup, etc....Christians would become the enemy of farmers who depended on this practice, the NRA, the cosmetic industry and governments whose power lies in the acquisition of property and money through the industry of War. The world as we know it would have to repent/change and most of us choose not to.
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That's all well and good, Waterfall, but the reality is - even though you don't seem able to accept it - that Jesus almost certainly ate lamb at the Last Supper, and at probably every other Passover meal he ever ate, because lamb was part of Passover. There's no evidence - zero, zilch, nada - to support your idea that Jesus was a vegetarian. I think you're doing what a lot of people do: coming to a conclusion and then forcing Jesus to agree with it, even though there's no evidence that he agrees with it.
 
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Waterfall said:
He didn't return evil for evil and he didn't kill....and I'm sure it angered anyone that made a living off of killing/sacrificing the animals or acquiring land and power from Wars through killing others.
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Jesus' conflict with the powers that be had little to do with his insistence that evil not be repaid for evil or ritual sacrifice.

Yes, his overturning tables in the temple probably did escalate tensions that already existed. They are not, apparently the sole source of opposition to Jesus. Neither is his reluctance to support war seen as something that needed to be stopped. In fact, more militant forces would have approved of his pacifism simply because it reduced the effort they would have to expend to get what they wanted.

The chief source of anger directed at Jesus was his threat to the status quo and income.

Waterfall said:
The Romans accepted Jesus but it seems it was only if they could continue their own ways.
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What are you basing this on? There is no record of any Gentiles advocating for Gentile ways. If anything the Gentile problem was which Christian they were supposed to look to for advice. Paul, for example, is saying one thing while Judaizers are saying another. If you are trying to paint Paul as a Roman vs the Judaizers as Jewish you need to go back and reread Paul lifting up his bona fides. I suspect that on all matters Jewish, Paul ran circles around the Judaizers.

Waterfall said:
They would wait for Heaven to arrive instead of realizing to make it happen they had to participate and live as if they were in the Kingdom now for it to happen.
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That is a very Pharisaic perspective and not an early Christian one.

The Pharisees believed that the reason why the Messiah was so long in coming was because the people were not faithful enough and so they engaged in a very here and now program to enforce righteousness according to their interpretation of the Torah. Other factions in the Jewish community of the day believed in the tactical military advantage of the Messiah (which suggests that Judas in betraying Jesus was engaged in forcing the military encounter that would see the Messiah emerge victorious).

It is hard to read scripture and hear it paint Jesus as being sympathetic to either perspective.

Waterfall said:
It would be the same today, if we stopped killing the animals for food, clothing, makeup, etc....Christians would become the enemy of farmers who depended on this practice, the NRA, the cosmetic industry and governments whose power lies in the acquisition of property and money through the industry of War. The world as we know it would have to repent/change and most of us choose not to.
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Perhaps. I'm not very positive that humanity could make, whole hog, the change you think is possible. And that not because of Religious influence or even resistance. There simply would be a tremendous amount of resistance to overcome. Jesus is lifted up in scripture as the good shepherd. Try telling shepherds that they are a dishonourable profession. Current shepherding practice might be far different from Jesus' day. Does that distance make it evil?

Having spent several years in NL outports Christian thought is very prevalent and they take things like sin seriously. It even figures in their speech. And yet the problem is not that they are fisherman the problem is that the way the fishery is currently prosecuted is unsustainable. Hence the moratorium on Cod and to be quite frank, the province as a whole is very abusive of the ocean given how little of their collective sewage is ever treated before it is dumped into the ocean. Think about that next time you are eating shellfish.

The idea of building heaven on earth is a nice goal to aim for.

God promises a new heaven and a new earth which means whatever we build here for ourselves, no matter how noble, still falls short and is destined to be swept away.

I do not advocate going for broke and screwing Creation every way we can to hasten the Lord's return. Those attempting to bring the Lord back ahead of his own agenda may not find him to happy to them when he returns.

Not everyone who cries, "Lord! Lord!" right?
 
Jesus threatens the principalities and powers - which are anything (spiritual or otherwise) that threaten to claim our allegiance in place of God. Government, money, nation, church, religion, etc. etc.
 
revsdd said:
Jesus threatens the principalities and powers - which are anything (spiritual or otherwise) that threaten to claim our allegiance in place of God. Government, money, nation, church, religion, etc. etc.
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Amen.
 
If you wish to see this dramatized ... watch The Imitation Game for a scene of those that love all of the humanity of man ... a hommeo passion, or love of the common character ... in the divine comedy of life?

In Roman devotion to war would love of all be a sin? Then this effort was covered up by secrecy for 50 years ... and there are many that say there are no sacred schemes (conspiracies)!
 
Mystic said:
The Bible says, "Taste and see that the Lord is good." :)
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Those in the know (experience) do know that come from vegetarian men does taste & go down better than that from meat-eaters
The bibble is just CHOCK-FULL of tidbits of wisdom -- it's like the Joy of Cooking (those who know of the Joy of Cooking know that it isn't just a cookbook, but it has stories in it as well)
 
There is no evidence for a Palestinian Jewish belief in reincarnation during or prior to the first century. Early in the second century, a trans-Jordanian Jewish Christian sect called the Elchasaites is the first Christian group to break this pattern. But there is a first-century Judeo-Christian doctrine embraced by Jesus and His disciples of which most Christians are unaware, namely a belief in the pre-existence of souls (e. g. Wisdom of Solomon; 2 Enoch, the Essenes. For the perspective of Jesus and His disciples on this question read John -:1-2 and reflect on what is and is not taken for granted. The intriguing question about this is, what is the relationship between our pre-existence way of being and our destiny on earth?
 
What goes down will certainly come up again .... just to satisfy the reaction to "what goes up ...." --- Freud?

Sympathetic vs. Para-sympathetic issues?
 
Mystic said:
There is no evidence for a Palestinian Jewish belief in reincarnation during or prior to the first century. Early in the second century, a trans-Jordanian Jewish Christian sect called the Elchasaites is the first Christian group to break this pattern. But there is a first-century Judeo-Christian doctrine embraced by Jesus and His disciples of which most Christians are unaware, namely a belief in the pre-existence of souls (e. g. Wisdom of Solomon; 2 Enoch, the Essenes. For the perspective of Jesus and His disciples on this question read John -:1-2 and reflect on what is and is not taken for granted. The intriguing question about this is, what is the relationship between our pre-existence way of being and our destiny on earth?
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Have you ever heard of the text called "The Gospel of Perfect Life" also known as "The Gospel of the Holy Twelve" or "The Gospel of Jesus"?

Also a text called: "This Is My Word" where it is explained why Jesus served fish to the crowd."
In it He says that He created dead fish from the spiritual substance of the earth.."I gave them the dead fish and at the same time I offered them breads and fruits to eat, so that they could recognize the difference between living and dead nourishment, between highly vibrating and low vibrating food." (This IS My Word; pp 371-372)

What do Biblical scholars say about these books?
 
Waterfall said:
Have you ever heard of the text called "The Gospel of Perfect Life" also known as "The Gospel of the Holy Twelve" or "The Gospel of Jesus"?

Also a text called: "This Is My Word" where it is explained why Jesus served fish to the crowd."
In it He says that He created dead fish from the spiritual substance of the earth.."I gave them the dead fish and at the same time I offered them breads and fruits to eat, so that they could recognize the difference between living and dead nourishment, between highly vibrating and low vibrating food." (This IS My Word; pp 371-372)

What do Biblical scholars say about these books?
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Odd that the word for soul, in Hebrew is a metaphor for fish, leading to ichthyic and other comments that lead to the curiosity of intellect and awareness that are head scratching and deep conceptions of a spontaneous sort! Then fish is sometimes referred to as brain food or stuff the brain consumes ... like mental fude? Autocrats would not like ordinary people to be smarter than them would they ... and thus a drive towards naivete?

Is that crazy or what ... the urge to learn while in company with pathe o' logs? Undeveloped myths like voided souls?

Then there are extremists, or fields of polity ... like sect maniacs of both types ... one thought filled without a caution and the other a totally emotional brute .... the divine line is thin and red ...
 
Waterfall said:
Have you ever heard of the text called "The Gospel of Perfect Life" also known as "The Gospel of the Holy Twelve" or "The Gospel of Jesus"?
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If this is what you are referring to, it sounds rather suspicious to me. An Essene text about Jesus found by a 19th century Irish clergyman in a Tibetan Buddhist temple? That just screams "fake Gospel with a made up history" to me.

A critique with footnotes and citations that reaches much the same conclusion: http://www.tektonics.org/lp/ouseley01.php

Waterfall said:
Also a text called: "This Is My Word" where it is explained why Jesus served fish to the crowd."
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Waterfall said:
In it He says that He created dead fish from the spiritual substance of the earth.."I gave them the dead fish and at the same time I offered them breads and fruits to eat, so that they could recognize the difference between living and dead nourishment, between highly vibrating and low vibrating food." (This IS My Word; pp 371-372)

What do Biblical scholars say about these books?
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Can't even find that one online. Got a cite for it?
 
Waterfall said:
Now here is my next dilemma. Peter had a dream that gentiles could eat whatever they want. Peter who was considered the head of the church..in Rome? But some say James, Jesus brother was the head of the church in Jerusalem and it was testified that he was raised a vegetarian. Does it stand to reason Jesus was also raised this way?

Which makes me ask. God doesn't want the Jews to eat carnivorous animals in the beginning because its' wrong, possibly due to the effects of the flood they are then allowed to eat only herbivores. Only animals that haven't killed other animals. So why would Peter have this vision that it's okay for gentiles? Does He have less regard for gentiles? Is it really that Jesus became "our sacrifice", and Peter leads the RC's to transubstantiation for continuous re enactment of drinking a body and blood? Does this make sense when God tells the Jews it is wrong to eat animal blood?

Was Peters dream interpretation correct, because it doesn't make sense? Is our interpretation correct? because it doesn't really line up with what God says.....but it does line up with Paul and the Romans church.

It seems whether to eat meat or not, had become such an issue that Paul was forced to address it amongst Christians to stop the division....while contradicting God's word???

Then comes Constantine in the 4th century, who endorses eating any meat and punishes any Christian that disobeys. Forcing his own version of Christianity without variance....

People can contradict scripture, does God..is there anywhere God Himself tells gentiles to eat the blood?
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Hi Waterfall-- You do understand we who follow Christ are not under the Laws . Those under the Laws sin by breaking the Laws.
 
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