Vaping - a healthier option to smoking?

[Luce NDs]

Did you hear about the woman in NY who had drunk driving charges against her dropped because she has a rare condition called, something like "Brewery syndrome" where her own body converts food into alcohol! She was pulled over at a road check and smelled like alcohol but she wasn't "tipsy". How's she supposed to go anywhere without someone judging and complaining!

Yes I heard of various cases like this .. one in Japan where a man had his system upset because of nuclear fallout and he was inebriated on a constant basis ... until medical authorities figured out how to correct the imbalance of bacteria an fungi in his system.

Might be treacherous but could cut down on the boo's bill ...

 

[ChemGal]

My husband bought one when they first came out - the novelty wore off as the old ones were a bit finicky to refill - it is steam and you can't smell it. The machine heats up the water and nicotine liquid stuff. I sat right beside it and could not smell a thing and neither could anyone else. I think people just want to come down hard on smokers/ recovering smokers, no matter what they do. Especially those who've never smoked. Give it a rest. It is not easy to quit people need to ease up. If it is outside on the sidewalk I can't imagine anyone having an objection because it has no smell and dissipates into the air along with much worse things in the air already. Inside I can understand - even with no smell, there would be water and traces of nicotine in the air. Not a big deal but if people object - somebody's going to object no matter how safe it is. If it's not 100% safe, take it outside. But it is a lot safer than smoke. Steam with nicotine in it. It's probably not even bad for you except that the nicotine is addictive - but not in trace amounts in the air.

I thought there was PEG or something similar to that in it too? I don't see anyone complaining about people doing it outside, away from doorways & play areas.

 

[Pinga]

I am an ex-smoker, a few times over. Once a smoker, always a smoker. That addiction is rather strong.

I didn't ask the person who was sitting across from me using his vape during our evening dinner / appetizers, but, I surely did not like it, and would not sit by him again if he was using it. He's the partner of a friend and I see him maybe twice a year, so maybe next time that I see him, the laws will change.

I don't have an objection if used following the same rules as smoking.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

I thought there was PEG or something similar to that in it too? I don't see anyone complaining about people doing it outside, away from doorways & play areas.

I gather PEG is poly (nevermind) poly something? There may be trace amounts of that or trace amounts of something else, too. Like a steaming bubble bath? Like washing hands at a sink? It's flavouring added - so maybe liking breathing in and out through your mouth or talking while chewing gum? I don't think there is anything dangerous for second hand breathers of the vapour. Nothing more dangerous than what is already in the air at any given place and time - seriously. It is the tar that is carcinogenic in cigarettes for smokers and those breathing it secondhand. But e-cigarettes are strange and new and remind people of smoking. I think the aversion is mostly psychological. The newness and weirdness and "tech ness" is also the reason the novelty wears off for some and they go back to smoking. Maybe if e-cigs were more accepted in more places?

 

[ChemGal]

I gather PEG is poly (nevermind) poly something? There may be trace amounts of that or trace amounts of something else, too. Like a steaming bubble bath? Like washing hands at a sink? It's flavouring added - so maybe liking breathing in and out through your mouth or talking while chewing gum? I don't think there is anything dangerous for second hand breathers of the vapour. Nothing more dangerous than what is already in the air at any given place and time - seriously. It is the tar that is carcinogenic in cigarettes for smokers and those breathing it secondhand. But e-cigarettes are strange and new and remind people of smoking. I think the aversion is mostly psychological. The newness and weirdness and "tech ness" is also the reason the novelty wears off for some and they go back to smoking. Maybe if e-cigs were more accepted in more places?

The nicotine alone is a potential health risk. The stuff I was thinking of is in more than just trace amounts, it's propylene glycol, not PEG (was too tired to check that at the time). Also glycerine. So it's not all just nicotine & water vapour.
http://www.asthmaed.com/journal/2014/4/10/vaping-a-question-of-branding

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Okay, so if I'm chewing nicotine gum and breathing and talking, in an elevator, let's say... Is that a health risk to others? Because I am breathing in and out as well as swallowing nicotine particles. They're in the air, so watch out...you can't see my breath unless it's cold out but it's still circulating...you never know if that gum somebody's chewing is Dentyne (does that contain propylene glycol? It does contain some chemicals) or something more offensive. If so, there is less and less reason to leave the house as it might offend somebody. I'm offended by cars and trucks idling at red lights while I walk across the street, and disturbing my airspace while I walk down the sidewalk. (Not too offended but it is as offensive as second hand smoke, when you live in a busy city, is my point)

 

[revsdd]

Did you hear about the woman in NY who had drunk driving charges against her dropped because she has a rare condition called, something like "Brewery syndrome" where her own body converts food into alcohol! She was pulled over at a road check and smelled like alcohol but she wasn't "tipsy". How's she supposed to go anywhere without someone judging and complaining!

A bit off topic - but an interesting story.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/s...rge-after-proving-that-her-body-brews-alcohol

The story doesn't say that she "wasn't tipsy." It says that "... despite reportedly having slurred speech and bloodshot eyes, she insisted that she had had no more than three drinks in the six hours before she was arrested."

Maybe I'm too unsympathetic. I can accept the fact that this woman has a strange medical condition. And I'm sorry for her. But if her strange medical condition gives her a permanent blood alcohol level of 0.36, and the legal limit is 0.08, then should her licence not be revoked? People get their licences revoked for all sorts of medical reasons. Why not this one?

As to vaping - wouldn't personally want to breathe the vapors in second hand, although if they help people stop smoking then I can see the positive aspect to it.

 

[Luce NDs]

@revsdd ...
Can you imagine intelligent beans that are too emotional to drive? Perhaps that would be described as brute rage as a creation ... jumped up beans?

Latinos as particles against a House of cards ... Trumped as to what is missing?

 

[Waterfall]

Many of the elderly in retirement homes continue to smoke and in this weather will still venture outside to have a puff. They teeter on their walkers and risk slipping on the ice because we have collectively declared that smoking is bad for you....fine....but these people have no intention of quitting. E cigs would be a better solution IMO rather than going outside or at least provide a decent and safe outside facility to sit in.

 

[BetteTheRed]

It's also a more healthy delivery system than smoking it for medical marijuana. Apparently Oprah is quite the fan of her vape...

 

[ChemGal]

Okay, so if I'm chewing nicotine gum and breathing and talking, in an elevator, let's say... Is that a health risk to others? Because I am breathing in and out as well as swallowing nicotine particles. They're in the air, so watch out...you can't see my breath unless it's cold out but it's still circulating...you never know if that gum somebody's chewing is Dentyne (does that contain propylene glycol? It does contain some chemicals) or something more offensive. If so, there is less and less reason to leave the house as it might offend somebody. I'm offended by cars and trucks idling at red lights while I walk across the street, and disturbing my airspace while I walk down the sidewalk. (Not too offended but it is as offensive as second hand smoke, when you live in a busy city, is my point)

There's a huge difference between direct contact as a main delivery system and an inhalant when it comes to second and third hand effects.
As for vehicle exhaust, that can bother me too, but it is nothing compared to second hand smoke and there are things like anti-idling laws. Running vehicles are limited to certain locations and they have a useful function.
The usefulness of smoking cigarettes and vaping cigarette substitutes is more limited. For most, it can easily be done away from others or it can be stopped leading to a positive health benefit.

Would I rather breathe in second hand vapour than cigarette smoke? Yes. I don't see a reason for either to be done inside a public space or in front of hospital doors, etc.

 

[crazyheart]

I was surprised to read on the E Cig directions. It said that

anyone with breathing problems should not use them.

That's when T stopped using them.

But, if I hear @Pinga right, she could smoke again. Its been over

4 years for me and coffee has never tasted the same. I could start

tomorrow but I won't.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

There's a huge difference between direct contact as a main delivery system and an inhalant when it comes to second and third hand effects.
As for vehicle exhaust, that can bother me too, but it is nothing compared to second hand smoke and there are things like anti-idling laws. Running vehicles are limited to certain locations and they have a useful function.
The usefulness of smoking cigarettes and vaping cigarette substitutes is more limited. For most, it can easily be done away from others or it can be stopped leading to a positive health benefit.

Would I rather breathe in second hand vapour than cigarette smoke? Yes. I don't see a reason for either to be done inside a public space or in front of hospital doors, etc.

The reason - waterfall touched on it is so that people don't have to go out in subzero weather and rain and windstorms just to have a smoke - now a vap, which seems overly zealous and uptight anti-everything to me - but oh well. People will be that way. I guess they get priority. It is rather highly addictive to smoke and if you've never smoked you wouldn't know the discomfort of going without if you're having trouble quitting - like you're being turned inside out - it's excruciating to just drop it as if it's like giving up carbs or something (rather than taper off of it). It's not easy like dieting at all - so, there is a point to why vaping is more reasonable to do indoors than smoking. Vaping in a vaping section with good ventilation/ air filtration seems acceptable to me. It does not smell or make eyes water like smoke. It is far more innocuous. Car exhaust is just as bad as second hand smoke. Being in a busy underground parkade for 5-10 minutes is like second hand smoking a cigarette indoors. Everyday life is a risk.

 

[Pinga]

Crazyheart -- I know that if I ever touched cigarettes again, I would be addicted. I find the smell vile now, but put me in a bar or a party , with a few drinks in me, surrounded by smokers, and I bet that I would be tempted.

 

[ChemGal]

The reason - waterfall touched on it is so that people don't have to go out in subzero weather and rain and windstorms just to have a smoke - now a vap, which seems overly zealous and uptight anti-everything to me - but oh well. People will be that way. I guess they get priority. It is rather highly addictive to smoke and if you've never smoked you wouldn't know the discomfort of going without if you're having trouble quitting - like you're being turned inside out - it's excruciating to just drop it as if it's like giving up carbs or something. It's not like that at all - so, there is a point to why vaping is more reasonable to do indoors than smoking. Vaping in a vaping section with good ventilation/ air filtration seems acceptable to me. It does not smell or make eyes water like smoke. It is far more innocuous. Car exhaust is just as bad as second hand smoke. Being in a busy underground parkade for 5-10 minutes is like second hand smoking a cigarette indoors. Everyday life is a risk.

They don't have to go outside. They can wait until they are in a private indoor location.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

They don't have to go outside. They can wait until they are in a private indoor location.

No maybe they can't without serious withdrawal symptoms. Dizziness, lightheaded, nausea, chills, anxiety, brain fog etc. you wouldn't know how it feels I guess. People think "oh why don't they just stop". But it really is not easy and most people have many attempts if they are ever successful. Then you hear of seniors who are in their 80s and even 90s still smoking - maybe waterfall works with some - so it doesn't necessarily kill everyone. My great aunt smoked into her 80s, and others like my technically step sister who was a ballet dancer and never had a bad vice who got a rare spinal cancer that was luckily caught in time so I don't know. Maybe we should not be so uptight - be a little more "European" (like the French) about these things. Lol. Although much of Europe is tightening up the rules but not like here. I am visiting another town right now and it is anti-smoking and anti e-cig, which is silly, pretty much everywhere even outside on public property.

 

[ChemGal]

No maybe they can't without serious withdrawal symptoms. Dizziness, lightheaded, nausea, chills, anxiety, brain fog etc. you wouldn't know how it feels I guess. People think "oh why don't they just stop". But it really is not easy and most people have many attempts if they are ever successful. Then you hear of seniors who are in their 80s and even 90s still smoking - maybe waterfall works with some - so it doesn't necessarily kill everyone. My great aunt smoked into her 80s, and others like my technically step sister who was a ballet dancer and never had a bad vice who got a rare spinal cancer that was luckily caught in time so I don't know. Maybe we should not be so uptight - be a little more "European" (like the French) about these things. Lol.

People choose to start in the first place, and withdrawals are a consequence if they haven't planned an appropriate time and place to get their fix. Withdrawals occur with many other substances, some medically necessary, but it doesn't mean we allow them to all be used in all situations.

While smoking doesn't kill everyone, it is possible for the 2nd hand or 3rd hand smoke to kill someone quickly.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Yeah people usually choose to start many years earlier by the time they get hooked or discover they can't go comfortably without. It's not smart but...Don't be holier than thou. Don't tell people, as a non smoker, how they should plan their 'fix'. That's like telling people how to plan their bathroom visits. It can be done most of the time without too much discomfort, not always. It's not a morality issue. It doesn't make people bad people. It usually starts from peer pressure in teens and young adults, like drinking. You drink right? Most Albertans drink more than the rest of Canada - some people find abundance of alcohol consumption more morally objectionable. Could you give it up entirely and still enjoy life the same? It's the same thing - except drinking can't be allowed at work for example, or driving because of the cognitive effects.


Let people have their vap.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

People choose to start in the first place, and withdrawals are a consequence if they haven't planned an appropriate time and place to get their fix. Withdrawals occur with many other substances, some medically necessary, but it doesn't mean we allow them to all be used in all situations.

While smoking doesn't kill everyone, it is possible for the 2nd hand or 3rd hand smoke to kill someone quickly.

Yeah I don't think people should smoke inside in public unless it's a smokers only place which I don't think exists - well marijuana cafes exist here and they are in a legal grey area but ... I think there should be areas were people can smoke e-cigs inside.

 

[ChemGal]

Yeah people usually choose to start many years earlier by the time they get hooked or discover they can't go comfortably without. It's not smart but...Don't be holier than thou. Don't tell people, as a non smoker, how they should plan their 'fix'. That's like telling people how to plan their bathroom visits. It can be done most of the time without too much discomfort, not always. It's not a morality issue. It doesn't make people bad people. It usually starts from peer pressure in teens and young adults, like drinking. You drink right? Most Albertans drink more than the rest of Canada - some people find abundance of alcohol consumption more morally objectionable. Could you give it up entirely and still enjoy life the same? It's the same thing - except drinking can't be allowed at work for example, or driving because of the cognitive effects.


Let people have their vap.

Exactly, one cannot just drink and do whatever they like. There are withdrawal symptoms from alcohol and they can be much more severe than those from nicotine.
I'm just expecting similar safeguards in place from smoking/vaping but apparently that makes me holier than thou, not wanting to have an attack because I go to a restaurant or something.

Alcohol can also be vapourized and consumed that way. I don't think that should be done in a general public area either. If people want to set up indoor areas specifically for smoking/vaping, I'm ok with that.