Pontifex Geronimo 13
#walkaway
I guess there must be, priests are falling out of faith in God. It could happen to homosexuals too, I guess.
An article "The church is killing its gay kids"
- Thread starter RitaTG
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unsafe
Well-Known Member
BetteTheRed your quote -----But if being gay were something that needed to be healed from, why DOES IT NEVER WORK.
You and RitaTG need to listen to a Lesbian who was so you can't say it NEVER WORKS ------Secret Thoughts Of An Unlikely Convert | Rosaria Butterfield
You and RitaTG need to listen to a Lesbian who was so you can't say it NEVER WORKS ------Secret Thoughts Of An Unlikely Convert | Rosaria Butterfield
BetteTheRed
Resident Heretic
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
Uh, no. There's this inconvenient truth called Bisexual. Also accounts for that pesky .5%, I suspect.
I have two children, of three, who identify as bisexual. Does not appear to be that uncommon. Wyrd thing is, I appear to be pretty close to 100% straight.
I have two children, of three, who identify as bisexual. Does not appear to be that uncommon. Wyrd thing is, I appear to be pretty close to 100% straight.
unsafe
Well-Known Member
Uh, no. There's this inconvenient truth called Bisexual. Great cop out statement-----BetteTheRed
BetteTheRed
Resident Heretic
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
How is that a cop-out?
If you can be attracted to both genders, you are bisexual. I know that I can't be, because I have, in fact, tried to 'turn gay', and it ain't possible for me. Male culture, and the males that go with it, have pissed me off mightily over the course of my life, and a couple of times I swore to be off men for good. However, try as I might, kissing a girl just isn't in the cards; they don't 'smell right' - I appear to have rather acute pheromone sensors.
But I also know what the reality of "bi" looks like. Kids and I were often on road trips of various sorts together, and whether I called out "hot chick at NW corner", or "ooh, nice boy at corner of Maple and Queen", both heads swivelled, both times.
And I'm telling you right now, unsafe, I won't be watching 2 hours of Miss Rosaria. I'm sure she's 'changed'; I'm equally sure she ain't straight.
I watch a lot of people in their 50s and 60s relax into authenticity. Very few people can keep up a pretence all of their lives.
I truthfully can't help but feel sorry for the people of Exodus International. They invested time, energy, and money into doing what they thought was right - only to see their project fail. I hope they have all found new ministries to involve themselves in.
revjohn
Well-Known Member
http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/20/us/exodus-international-shutdown/
http://alanchambers.org/
Seems like Alan was more concerned about how the ministry hurt and alienated folk and saw that as the real failure.
http://alanchambers.org/
Seems like Alan was more concerned about how the ministry hurt and alienated folk and saw that as the real failure.
revjohn
Well-Known Member
unsafe
Well-Known Member
BetteTheRed your quote -----And I'm telling you right now, unsafe, I won't be watching 2 hours of Miss Rosaria. I'm sure she's 'changed'; I'm equally sure she ain't straight.
This is what I think
This is the problem you and RitaTG are claiming that God can't change the heart of a person who is homosexual ----that prayer fails ----that when your a LGBTQ person your that way cause God Blessed you to be that way and therefore you are meant to be that way --- So all who are LGBTQ people are born perfect not broken in any way and without spot or blemish and it is only all others who are born under the curse not this Group of people -----
This is all you want to hear -----we are not broken ---we are a perfect ---group of people ---no one can change us cause God Blessed us ----God cannot do the impossible --His word condemns ----His church condemns ----- Well this woman is one who had her heart changed and went through years of pain before she came to God ---she was in a one woman relationship and her story is compelling and heart felt -----God did change her heart and she is married to a minister and has children and she talks to churches and gives seminars on how the LGBTQ should be treated in churches which is what this topic is about -----SHE IS NOT BI---SEXUAL ---she was a Lesbian who found God and it changer her .
You would do yourself a service to listen to the Q and A video if nothing else -------you don't want to listen to her story cause you don't want to know the truth ----so you cop out by saying your comment -----I won't be watching 2 hours of Miss Rosaria I'm sure she's 'changed'; I'm equally sure she ain't straight. --- You see---you are so sure -----Like you know this woman inside out personally ----
I wonder why you don't want to watch it ------but your all fired up about everyone reading and finding out about Exodus International and their failures ----
Your comment is all you want to rely on ----your fear of just maybe God can change someone keeps you from hearing from people who have been changed by God and His word -------
You and RitaTG don't know all LGBTQ people over the world and you don't know their hearts so to claim that ALL LGBTQ PEOPLE can't be changed by God and His word is a False statement ------some are in fact being changed by God -----you just don't want to read or hear about it ---
It seems to me you just want the young ones to keep away from what just may change some and give the rest hope for great life here and eternal life later ---
This is what I think
This is the problem you and RitaTG are claiming that God can't change the heart of a person who is homosexual ----that prayer fails ----that when your a LGBTQ person your that way cause God Blessed you to be that way and therefore you are meant to be that way --- So all who are LGBTQ people are born perfect not broken in any way and without spot or blemish and it is only all others who are born under the curse not this Group of people -----
This is all you want to hear -----we are not broken ---we are a perfect ---group of people ---no one can change us cause God Blessed us ----God cannot do the impossible --His word condemns ----His church condemns ----- Well this woman is one who had her heart changed and went through years of pain before she came to God ---she was in a one woman relationship and her story is compelling and heart felt -----God did change her heart and she is married to a minister and has children and she talks to churches and gives seminars on how the LGBTQ should be treated in churches which is what this topic is about -----SHE IS NOT BI---SEXUAL ---she was a Lesbian who found God and it changer her .
You would do yourself a service to listen to the Q and A video if nothing else -------you don't want to listen to her story cause you don't want to know the truth ----so you cop out by saying your comment -----I won't be watching 2 hours of Miss Rosaria I'm sure she's 'changed'; I'm equally sure she ain't straight. --- You see---you are so sure -----Like you know this woman inside out personally ----
I wonder why you don't want to watch it ------but your all fired up about everyone reading and finding out about Exodus International and their failures ----
Your comment is all you want to rely on ----your fear of just maybe God can change someone keeps you from hearing from people who have been changed by God and His word -------
You and RitaTG don't know all LGBTQ people over the world and you don't know their hearts so to claim that ALL LGBTQ PEOPLE can't be changed by God and His word is a False statement ------some are in fact being changed by God -----you just don't want to read or hear about it ---
It seems to me you just want the young ones to keep away from what just may change some and give the rest hope for great life here and eternal life later ---
You're correct but there's a reason why people get that wrong. Some people say "lifestyle" in order to disregard the fact that a persons sexual orientation is a deeply intrinsic part of who they are. The word lifestyle leads people to equate it with partying on something like that as opposed to being the person that God made them to be.
unsafe
Well-Known Member
Well Pr.Jae ---I could be very confused about that -----I may be missing something here -----maybe you can set me straight ---in your opinion Does RitaTG believe that the LGBTQ community are born the way they are and can't be changed because God has blessed them in the womb to be gay ---trans ---bi-- upon birth or is the belief that they are born not that way and choose to become that way themselves as they mature -----which if is the case they could be changed from their LGBTQ position to become Heterosexual ------
This is RitaTG quote to me page 44------I feel sorry for you .... that you feel that your being gay is a curse ...... I feel sorry for you indeed....
So if she feels it is not a curse then she feels it is a blessing -------the question is are we under the Curses when born or are we under the Blessing ----you can't separate in what condition we are born in from how we develop ---in my opinion ---- we for we are all going to be born under the same rule are we not --- -------so the Blressing means we are in Christ and being obedient to His word ----the Curse means we are not in Christ and we are disobedient to His word -----so which is it -----Are we born from the womb with Christ and the Blessing built in already to obey and follow His ways ---- or are we born from the womb away from Christ and the curse is already built in to follow our human desires and our ways ------
If we are born with Christ then we have God's DNA in us already and are Spiritually perfected at birth ------in my opinion ----so where does the LGBTQ community fit -----born with a perfected Spirit or born with a fallen spirit -----it has to be one or the other ----
This of course just my take on it ---If I am way off base let me know ------
This is RitaTG quote to me page 44------I feel sorry for you .... that you feel that your being gay is a curse ...... I feel sorry for you indeed....
So if she feels it is not a curse then she feels it is a blessing -------the question is are we under the Curses when born or are we under the Blessing ----you can't separate in what condition we are born in from how we develop ---in my opinion ---- we for we are all going to be born under the same rule are we not --- -------so the Blressing means we are in Christ and being obedient to His word ----the Curse means we are not in Christ and we are disobedient to His word -----so which is it -----Are we born from the womb with Christ and the Blessing built in already to obey and follow His ways ---- or are we born from the womb away from Christ and the curse is already built in to follow our human desires and our ways ------
If we are born with Christ then we have God's DNA in us already and are Spiritually perfected at birth ------in my opinion ----so where does the LGBTQ community fit -----born with a perfected Spirit or born with a fallen spirit -----it has to be one or the other ----
This of course just my take on it ---If I am way off base let me know ------
In some parts of the world they will kill you for being a Christian. Is that a sign that being a Christian is wrong? Personally I think it's being homicidally intolerant that is the problem but maybe I'm just funny that way. Also, a point to ponder; a lot of the countries that will kill people for being gay and the countries that will kill someone for being a Christian are the same countries. I.S.I.L. held territory is the most extreme example of that.
Sadly people want God to endorse their pettiest prejudices. Back in the bad old days of Jim Crow the segregationists quoted the Bible every chance they got to "prove" that God agreed with them and if anyone disagreed with them they were disagreeing with God too. Of course they were twisting and perverting the scripture and we know that now but so many people accepted that in the day. 50 to 100 years from now the anti-gay rights people will be viewed exactly like the segregationists are viewed today.
revjohn
Well-Known Member
If we presume that we are born under a curse then must everything be changed in order for the curse to be removed?
If homosexuality is a curse of birth what about heterosexuality? How must the heterosexual have their orientation changed in order for them to have the curse lifted in that aspect of their lives?
What about skin colour? If we are born under curse then how do we transform that?
If we presume that we are born under a blessing then everything must be maintained as is in order for the blessing to continue.
Do children, simply by growing actually grow out of blessing into curse?
Maybe we are not dealing with questions of either blessed or cursed so much as we are dealing with being both blessed and cursed?
And maybe God looks at the heart of the individual and judges them at that level.
Can the homosexual love mercy as much as the heterosexual?
Can the homosexual do justice as well as the heterosexual?
Can either walk with humility beside their God?
Or are each of these things lesser concerns than who we sleep with?
I believe in the doctrine of original sin. I believe that all have sinned and all have fallen short of the glory of God. I believe that Jesus Christ is God the Son, the Redeemer who has come into the world. I believe that God the Son is as gracious as God the Father and God the Holy Spirit.
I believe that if something is considered sinful by you that you ought not to do it.
If you believe that your brother or sister are making a mistake then gentle correction is required and possibly some self-discipline to not continue to rub their faces in it.
Speaking from a pastoral angle crisis is never the moment to attempt to educate. Crisis is the time you come near and you walk alongside of.
If that is something that cannot be managed for some reason then take a lesson from Job's comforters whose friendship was best when their mouths were shut.
Because I do take seriously the doctrine of original sin I never presume that anyone I meet in the course of any given day is without sin. I also do not presume that it is my job to expose and condemn the sin in their lives.
I am mindful of the servants sent into the high ways and by-ways of the world to invite guests to a wedding banquet. They weren't there to bar the door and check credentials. The only time, in the telling of that particular parable that the prospect of being tossed out occurs it is very clear that it is the host of the wedding party who makes that determination.
If only the Church was populated by as many who were eager to invite and welcome as it was folk who are eager to slam the door and kick out for one reason or another.
If homosexuality is a curse of birth what about heterosexuality? How must the heterosexual have their orientation changed in order for them to have the curse lifted in that aspect of their lives?
What about skin colour? If we are born under curse then how do we transform that?
If we presume that we are born under a blessing then everything must be maintained as is in order for the blessing to continue.
Do children, simply by growing actually grow out of blessing into curse?
Maybe we are not dealing with questions of either blessed or cursed so much as we are dealing with being both blessed and cursed?
And maybe God looks at the heart of the individual and judges them at that level.
Can the homosexual love mercy as much as the heterosexual?
Can the homosexual do justice as well as the heterosexual?
Can either walk with humility beside their God?
Or are each of these things lesser concerns than who we sleep with?
I believe in the doctrine of original sin. I believe that all have sinned and all have fallen short of the glory of God. I believe that Jesus Christ is God the Son, the Redeemer who has come into the world. I believe that God the Son is as gracious as God the Father and God the Holy Spirit.
I believe that if something is considered sinful by you that you ought not to do it.
If you believe that your brother or sister are making a mistake then gentle correction is required and possibly some self-discipline to not continue to rub their faces in it.
Speaking from a pastoral angle crisis is never the moment to attempt to educate. Crisis is the time you come near and you walk alongside of.
If that is something that cannot be managed for some reason then take a lesson from Job's comforters whose friendship was best when their mouths were shut.
Because I do take seriously the doctrine of original sin I never presume that anyone I meet in the course of any given day is without sin. I also do not presume that it is my job to expose and condemn the sin in their lives.
I am mindful of the servants sent into the high ways and by-ways of the world to invite guests to a wedding banquet. They weren't there to bar the door and check credentials. The only time, in the telling of that particular parable that the prospect of being tossed out occurs it is very clear that it is the host of the wedding party who makes that determination.
If only the Church was populated by as many who were eager to invite and welcome as it was folk who are eager to slam the door and kick out for one reason or another.
I think it's worth noting that on this forum and throughout the world there are lots of gay people who are born again, who love Jesus, who do their best to follow the Bible and who are completely gay. Apparently God is o.k. with that.