An article "The church is killing its gay kids"
- Thread starter RitaTG
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blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
do you as a parent make a mistake when you tell your kids don't walk down that dark rd because potential for harm exists , yet they do it anyways
Still, God regretted making man.
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
why not continue with that verse? it goes on to say “His heart was filled with pain.”
obviously God is contemplating Hes inner pain for humanity , would your heart not be in such pain for your kids taking the wrong path down a darken rd ?
I mean you might contemplate, if i had no kids, i would not feel such inner pain for them , yet the very fact that we are still in existence today shows Gods continuing love
Neo
Well-Known Member
But where does it say that if "I don't believe" that this is the case, e.g. I have a different interpretation of that scripture, that I am destined to death and no salvation?
BetteTheRed
Resident Heretic
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And who is telling people they are sin-less? All I stated was that it appears that those who are not born straight, who are not cis-gendered, start life with an EXTRA burden of sin according to some of the 'theology' above.
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.
The key word here Neo is who is " HE"
when you take all that Makes Jesus who Hs is, evacuate all meaning from His word, Ministry, Healing's, death and then Resurrection, you have in essence a new Jesus and new false Christ
to believe in the Truth of Jesus is to believe in Him and ALL that He is
the spirit that you allow to interpreter this Jesus has given you a new Christ, a false one
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
not at all you are redefining sin when you say Extra , there is no extra when it comes to sin
sin is an equal opportunity employer
Yes, He could have cleaned "us all up" after the flood. Made us perfect with no imperfections or sin. It appears He didn't want to. Seems He felt love is the answer that overrides everything.
Yes, it's true that there have always been people who get treated as if they start out with an EXTRA burden of sin. Just who those people are has changed somewhat throughout history. However, it's always been those most oppressed by the majority.
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
kids grow to mature through trial and error , spiritual maturity beyond the gravel seems the same
RitaTG
Well-Known Member
Here is an organization that was dedicated to applying conservative christian principles to those that wanted deliverance from being LGBTQ. The results must be analysed and understood.
It would seem that the failure rate suggests two possible broad paths to explore.
1. There is no God or God simply does not care
2. There is a God and God finds no reason to deliver a person from being LGBTQ
Given the promises of God and holding them to be true then the results would point us to looking at our interpretation of scripture because we must have it wrong.
Do you see any other broad possibilities???
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why must it be only those 2 possible positions?
ok lets see, # 1 is out since we are dealing with believers , # 2 is also out because man here is speaking on behalf of God. so there must me a 3 rd, we with hold judgement and look to scripture for the one being prayed for and it says , healing is to be in Gods will, when He wills it, for what ever reason God does not is in His understanding not ours .
I mean in #3, I know many testaments that have been healed , of many things , sickness mostly, and I know many who have not, St Paul having seen the Risen Lord was not healed of a thorn in his side, yet man, being imperfect as he is, likes to exersize his will over God .
lets remember here, it is not our power that heals, its Gods and we have no power to manipulate the Creators , no one does except the Creator Himself, in His wisdom alone[/QUOTE]
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The Exodus International experiment is a large scale application of the traditional christian approach that I have detailed previously in other posts. Therefore it would be wise to look at the results and try and understand them. This was a very significant experiment and a very significant number of christians.
Then in the Exodus International experiment it would seem that God decided that 99.5% of those seeking healing from being LGBTQ were not to be healed of that. Then perhaps we should be seeking to understand the wisdom of God not doing so.
I do hope we can focus on that and not hide behind the usual rhetoric that we all have heard and understand.
I use the word rhetoric in the academic sense and not in a way that implies a negative connotation.
RitaTG
Well-Known Member
What you say does not hurt me airclean ...... I am far more resilient than that and far harder to hurt than you would imagine.
What I am concerned with is that what you say would hurt young LGBTQ persons that would be in your church.
That is why I am trying to have this discussion.
The youth .... please .... it matters to them....
RitaTG
Well-Known Member
That possibility should have seen a greater success rate than 0.5%
I would suggest that numbers point to a much more probable reason..
And that is is that God does not fix that which ain't broke.
That is what I suggest that the church finds the courage to explore and see if it is so.
The young ones need us to.
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
why must it be only those 2 possible positions?
ok lets see, # 1 is out since we are dealing with believers , # 2 is also out because man here is speaking on behalf of God. so there must me a 3 rd, we with hold judgement and look to scripture for the one being prayed for and it says , healing is to be in Gods will, when He wills it, for what ever reason God does not is in His understanding not ours .
I mean in #3, I know many testaments that have been healed , of many things , sickness mostly, and I know many who have not, St Paul having seen the Risen Lord was not healed of a thorn in his side, yet man, being imperfect as he is, likes to exersize his will over God .
lets remember here, it is not our power that heals, its Gods and we have no power to manipulate the Creators , no one does except the Creator Himself, in His wisdom alone[/QUOTE]
....................................................................................................................
The Exodus International experiment is a large scale application of the traditional christian approach that I have detailed previously in other posts. Therefore it would be wise to look at the results and try and understand them. This was a very significant experiment and a very significant number of christians.
Then in the Exodus International experiment it would seem that God decided that 99.5% of those seeking healing from being LGBTQ were not to be healed of that. Then perhaps we should be seeking to understand the wisdom of God not doing so.
I do hope we can focus on that and not hide behind the usual rhetoric that we all have heard and understand.
I use the word rhetoric in the academic sense and not in a way that implies a negative connotation.[/QUOTE]
Like I said earlier it's in God wisdom not man's
Pontifex Geronimo 13
#walkaway
You are really obsessing over this 0.5%.
You also obsess over 43%.
If astronauts had a 43% probability of blowing up on takeoff, I think they would stop all space travel to fix what was broke.
If you search YouTube for homosexual testimony, you will get not 0.5%, but 100% success rate of salvation through Jesus Christ. Wondering if they are all liars?
If a group is known to have a 43% danger of suicide, and you want to do something about that, seriously, instead of blaming the church, shouldn't the government and medical communities identify these people and monitor them until they are out of danger. The church is against all types of sex before marriage, so if the church was in fact the cause of these suicides, all unmarried youth engaging in sexual activity should be running a suicide rate around 43%.
I would suggest that the numbers don't support you allegations.
BetteTheRed
Resident Heretic
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But if being gay were something that needed to be healed from, why DOES IT NEVER WORK.
(I'd have to conclude the .5% 'cure' rate would approach "never working". No-one's "obsessing" on the number except to conclude that it's awfully small.)
I know lots of gay people. Many of them have spent time in the closet. None of them were able to stay there for a lifetime, except those who died early, usually by their own hand.
(I'd have to conclude the .5% 'cure' rate would approach "never working". No-one's "obsessing" on the number except to conclude that it's awfully small.)
I know lots of gay people. Many of them have spent time in the closet. None of them were able to stay there for a lifetime, except those who died early, usually by their own hand.
Pontifex Geronimo 13
#walkaway
You tube 'homosexual testimony' and see what effect Jesus has on people.
dreamerman
Well-Known Member
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Well here is my two cents. I grew up in a large Catholic family. Usually when someone spoke about homosexuals it was always in a negative tone. The word faggot or fag was used all the time in my family. One of the worst things you could be was gay. Now that I am older and a little wiser I now know that those terms are hurtful and they are wrong. I believe to each their own and who am I to judge. I didn't always feel this way but times are changing. I also feel it is more of a societal thing when it comes to being against GLBTQ than it is a religious thing. I am not saying that some religions don't encourage spitefulness against the GLBTQ community because they certainly do. I think people who are already against these groups will seek out churches that are against these groups also. Now those in these churches who already have a distain for these groups can let their god take care of them so that they don't have to hate them as much as they did before because god will take care of them wink, wink. Pretty sad when you think of it. Well that is just my opinion but I don't feel I am that far off the mark.
PS. I don't always stand up for the GLBTQ community but I have my moments. Hopefully I will speak up more when they are being trashed. I always look at it this way what if my 11 year old son was gay or my 13 year old daughter was gay would I be opened and loving? I like to think I would be.
PS. I don't always stand up for the GLBTQ community but I have my moments. Hopefully I will speak up more when they are being trashed. I always look at it this way what if my 11 year old son was gay or my 13 year old daughter was gay would I be opened and loving? I like to think I would be.
The 0.5% is Exodus International's as reported by RitaTG. Pontifex is now claiming a 100% success rate based on YouTube videos.
RitaTG - how do you account for the success rate that exists? If things are as you say, shouldn't the rate be 0%?
Pontifex - you really want us to believe there are _no_ videos that talk about "cure" failures?