An article "The church is killing its gay kids"

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Pontifex ..... as usual you are far off the topic of this thread.
If you wish to discuss that please consider starting a thread for that.
Thank you
 
unsafe said:
RitaTG your quote -----I feel sorry for you .... that you feel that your being gay is a curse ...... I feel sorry for you indeed

These are just my thoughts on your statement to me -----

No need to feel sorry for me RitaTG ----I found the One who could actually free me from depression ---guilt ---condemnation ---and anything else that could come against me and accept me and give me a great life ---It is I who feel sorry for you indeed --- and all the LGBTQ individuals who refuse to accept or are ignorant of the Truth and Grace that has been offered to all people no matter who they are ----for it is not about the sexual side of it as it is the acceptance of the One who can free us from the guilt and condemnation that sexual side creates within ourselves ----We are our own worst enemies -----We blame all others --- the Church ----the straight society -----God -----God's moral laws ----God's word ----homophobic people and groups ----instead of accepting the Truth and the Freedom from the One who can free the guilt and condemnation we personally deal with because of being different which is the culprit that is Killing the young ones not the church ------Until the LGBTQ gets this they will be depressed ----feel unworthy and not accepted ------and unfortunately feel the need to rid themselves of this worldly society -----who by the way Satan is in charge of ----not God -----

Satan job is to kill --steal and destroy us -----and he is doing a good job -------


Pontifex Geronimo 13 ---Your Quote ------this needs repeating ------Only Jesus can save the young ones, or old ones for that matter----

Amen !----Amen ! and Amen ! -----
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unsafe .... you have articulated you viewpoint clearly as have I mine.
It is viewpoints like yours that need to be addressed within the churches to reduce the harm to young LGBTQ persons.
I feel called to be a part of that discussion process and I feel that the Exodus International experiment is a sign that the church needs to look at and dare to take a fresh honest look at LGBTQ issues. Lives depend on it....
Satan is very good at imposing microscopic and legalistic interpretations of scripture in order to oppress and condemn.
Perhaps consider that in what is being done to the young ones.
 
Hi RitaTG--Your post No-891--
airclean .... look into the Exodus International experiment and what they believed and what they had others do to combat their being gay. The "pray away the gay stuff" ... the "trust God , give it to God" stuff .... all the diligent stuff .... the usual.
And keep in mind these were very devout christians .... both counsellors and clients...
That is what I mean ..... please have a look....

--Airclean- Post--So this then is the answer?After spending 2hr's or more going through what you asked me to read.I never once read where any of those who seem to be trying to help. Said they were GOD.You see RitTG it is GODS Power that heal"s not Man"s .We lay on hand"s and ask GOD, to heal. it"s up to HIM. He may heal now , He may heal later. then again He may not at all. There is a reason for all the way"s GOD work .I do not understand them all, perhaps you do.The last time you prayed and Layed hand"s on those you were praying for. Where they healed right away?Or is GOD working on it?The Jews prayed for two hundred year"s I believe . Before GOD sett them free, from Egypt.So here"s the line that really stick's out to me.

RitaTG
The "pray away the gay stuff" ... the "trust God , give it to God" stuff .... all the diligent stuff .... the usual. --Your post--

--Airclean---Read The Bible RitaTG. GOD is working on it. His time is not like our"s. Have faith.
 
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airclean ..... good grief Charlie Brown LOL.....
Now .... you say you went through some stuff about Exodus International....
If you did your homework adequately you would see that my conclusions have a lot of merit.
Let me try and make this clear .......
I am NOT saying that prayer does not work nor that God cannot or does not heal or deliver etc.
What I am saying is that it would seem that God finds no reason to heal or deliver LGBTQ persons from being who and what they are. The 99.5% failure rate demonstrates that suspicion.
It would seem that God does not fix what is not broke and that just perhaps this is a gift :)
For those of us that are LGBTQ that have dared to see whether or not it is a gift our lives have blossomed in wonderful ways :)
I will rejoice in that thank you :)
 
RitaTG said:
airclean ..... good grief Charlie Brown LOL.....
Now .... you say you went through some stuff about Exodus International....
If you did your homework adequately you would see that my conclusions have a lot of merit.
Let me try and make this clear .......
I am NOT saying that prayer does not work nor that God cannot or does not heal or deliver etc.
What I am saying is that it would seem that God finds no reason to heal or deliver LGBTQ persons from being who and what they are. The 99.5% failure rate demonstrates that suspicion.
It would seem that God does not fix what is not broke and that just perhaps this is a gift :)
For those of us that are LGBTQ that have dared to see whether or not it is a gift our lives have blossomed in wonderful ways :)
I will rejoice in that thank you :)
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But the body of Christ does not only consist of Exodus International , sorry Rita but that is stereotyping
 
blackbelt1961 said:
But the body of Christ does not only consist of Exodus International , sorry Rita but that is stereotyping
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Of course not blackbelt .... of course not..... nothing like that was ever intended nor was it ever implied in any way.
Exodus International is a very good test study of the present conservative christian position.
Here is an organization that was dedicated to applying conservative christian principles to those that wanted deliverance from being LGBTQ. The results must be analysed and understood.
It would seem that the failure rate suggests two possible broad paths to explore.
1. There is no God or God simply does not care
2. There is a God and God finds no reason to deliver a person from being LGBTQ
Given the promises of God and holding them to be true then the results would point us to looking at our interpretation of scripture because we must have it wrong.
Do you see any other broad possibilities???
 
RitaTG said:
Of course not blackbelt .... of course not..... nothing like that was ever intended nor was it ever implied in any way.
Exodus International is a very good test study of the present conservative christian position.
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actually No its not, when the fullness of the conservative christian position is taken into account, Exodus International is only a mere fraction


[/quote]

Here is an organization that was dedicated to applying conservative christian principles to those that wanted deliverance from being LGBTQ. The results must be analysed and understood.
It would seem that the failure rate suggests two possible broad paths to explore.
1. There is no God or God simply does not care
2. There is a God and God finds no reason to deliver a person from being LGBTQ
Given the promises of God and holding them to be true then the results would point us to looking at our interpretation of scripture because we must have it wrong.
Do you see any other broad possibilities???

[/quote]

why must it be only those 2 possible positions?

ok lets see, # 1 is out since we are dealing with believers , # 2 is also out because man here is speaking on behalf of God. so there must me a 3 rd, we with hold judgement and look to scripture for the one being prayed for and it says , healing is to be in Gods will, when He wills it, for what ever reason God does not is in His understanding not ours .

I mean in #3, I know many testaments that have been healed , of many things , sickness mostly, and I know many who have not, St Paul having seen the Risen Lord was not healed of a thorn in his side, yet man, being imperfect as he is, likes to exersize his will over God .

lets remember here, it is not our power that heals, its Gods and we have no power to manipulate the Creators , no one does except the Creator Himself, in His wisdom alone
 
Just read through this thread

As Rev John said, on line discussions never change anyones mind

But

They are valuable. Reading others opinions and disagreeing or agreeing with them at least puts a different set of ideas iin front of people

Many people in our country continue to feel uneasy about non heterosexual people. And lets assume that those opinions carry throughout western civilizations. Time will make a difference. (The really dangerous areas are non western countries)

All the uproar over same sex marriage and the effects on marriage as it was has died down. The sky did not fall.

It was only a few years ago that California passed their anti gay marriage proposition 8 or whatever. And now same sex marriage is becoming law across the USA

Within our own community here there has been a seizmic change. Pr Jae has become a voice for acceptance. He has changed. Not through us, most likely through his education and exposure.

I think we all gained alot of info about Trans people, or at least the experiences of one person and that has likely changed all of us to a degree.

Yes convesations are circular. But important
 
Hi RitaTG -- If GODS Word The Bible had said different I really would try and except your walk more. How ever knowing when I post on this, it hurt"s you . I will not post this thread again . God Bless. airclean33
 
RitaTG said:
Of course not blackbelt .... of course not..... nothing like that was ever intended nor was it ever implied in any way.
Exodus International is a very good test study of the present conservative christian position.
Here is an organization that was dedicated to applying conservative christian principles to those that wanted deliverance from being LGBTQ. The results must be analysed and understood.
It would seem that the failure rate suggests two possible broad paths to explore.
1. There is no God or God simply does not care
2. There is a God and God finds no reason to deliver a person from being LGBTQ
Given the promises of God and holding them to be true then the results would point us to looking at our interpretation of scripture because we must have it wrong.
Do you see any other broad possibilities???
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There is at least a third broad possibility RitaTG. Note that I'm not saying that it's necessarily the correct answer, but just that it exists as a hypothetical answer - God cares and he will bring about healing in his own time.
 
Pr. Jae said:
There is at least a third broad possibility RitaTG. Note that I'm not saying that it's necessarily the correct answer, but just that it exists as a hypothetical answer - God cares and he will bring about healing in his own time.
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If Godde's own time is longer than the lifetime of an LGBGQ person, how is there any point to this position?
 
airclean33 said:
Hi RitaTG -- If GODS Word The Bible had said different I really would try and except your walk more. How ever knowing when I post on this, it hurt"s you . I will not post this thread again . God Bless. airclean33
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Well, I guess that's a start.

However, the Bible can be interpreted to say quite differently than what you see it saying. How is it you cling to the hurtful translation/interpretation when you've had a more inclusive explanation offered to you?
 
BetteTheRed said:
Well, I guess that's a start.

However, the Bible can be interpreted to say quite differently than what you see it saying. How is it you cling to the hurtful translation/interpretation when you've had a more inclusive explanation offered to you?
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Actually, when you interpret the bible, you want to get to what it meant to convey, not what you wish it conveyed. Additionally, the message airclean understands leads to life, and telling people that they are sinless is going to lead to their death, and worse for those who led them there.
 
Pontifex Geronimo 13 said:
Actually, when you interpret the bible, you want to get to what it meant to convey, not what you wish it conveyed. Additionally, the message airclean understands leads to life, and telling people that they are sinless is going to lead to their death, and worse for those who led them there.
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Where does it say in the Bible that if you don't believe in the original sin dogma that it will lead to your death?
 
Neo said:
Where does it say in the Bible that if you don't believe in the original sin dogma that it will lead to your death?
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How about Romans 6:23, "For; Because] The ·payment [wages] for sin is death. But God gives us the free gift of ·life forever [eternal life] in Christ Jesus our Lord" - (EXB).
 
Neo said:
Where does it say in the Bible that if you don't believe in the original sin dogma that it will lead to your death?
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as Jae pointed out Romans 6:23 , and to begin that with Psalm 51:5

Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me
 
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