An article "The church is killing its gay kids"

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OK, so what do you do about translation? There are going to be words and concepts in ancient Greek, Hebrew and Latin that are going to be arguable in English. How do you discern the correct word of God? You can tell me it's Spirit-driven to your heart's content, but obviously the Spirit told three different bible translators that timsh'l means one of "must" "will" or "may".
 
BetteTheRed said:
OK, so what do you do about translation? There are going to be words and concepts in ancient Greek, Hebrew and Latin that are going to be arguable in English. How do you discern the correct word of God? You can tell me it's Spirit-driven to your heart's content, but obviously the Spirit told three different bible translators that timsh'l means one of "must" "will" or "may"

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-Well you see Bette GOD may have what your looking for more than once in the Bible . Look It Up.
 
Airclean, curb your arrogance, please. I suspect I may know the Bible as well as you. I'm dropping this subject, as we've gone well off the topic of gay kids.

If one is to err in translation on the side of love, i.e. concluding that apparent condemnations refer to 1st century Palestinian problems, e.g. temple prostitution, Roman pederasty, then it seems to me that non-judgmentalism should be our default position. Which doesn't seem to be the case.
 
God's representative here is the English Monarch ... by law ... and decreed by the representative King Henry VIII a man that desired disposable women ... some wives appreciate this objective as a way out from under a man ... alas approached well-soiled in the puritan theology! If "Tan" is black in old languages what's pure black ... or men dressed in black ... corporeal unknowns?

Core-pore-aL: the central issue of the pore overhead ... those with empty tubes or tubs overhead (aL) ... allowing explicit domains where thoughts take flight over a war on earth. Not much denying that physical conflict. Consider the Japanese wishing to eliminate nuclear weapons ... perhaps trying to avoid disposing of war for future purposes of the emperor?

Thus the thinking demon is a dark character in the light of desires to fight ... some choose High Flight ... and off dey ghost ... nothing left but essence .. PEW or something suite if they come as daffy 'd isles ... isolationist characters? These often sit in the back row ... just observing and learning about physical manifestations of spirits of madness ... Ires ... wishing a rest and thus Good Night ... Ire eens ... them being in betwixt attributes like mediums ... psychic?

Thus bosons whip about the physical deposition (settlement) ... some illegal squatters ... from whence? Thus unknowns ...
 
BetteTheRed said:
Airclean, curb your arrogance, please. I suspect I may know the Bible as well as you. I'm dropping this subject, as we've gone well off the topic of gay kids.

If one is to err in translation on the side of love, i.e. concluding that apparent condemnations refer to 1st century Palestinian problems, e.g. temple prostitution, Roman pederasty, then it seems to me that non-judgmentalism should be our default position. Which doesn't seem to be the case.
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Then one would have to know some literature from beyond the bible ... outside myths as commentary as hinted by the last verse of the Gospel according to John ... John being a common noun, or numb-in-us attribute ... a wee speck of mind numbing compassion that could but the brae-in a Kant ... on tilde (~ ... and God waves as leaving)? Characteristic hidden in Moby Dick ... an attempt of killing the Wahl's in the background ... some say weal's, others just Big Wheels for Dogs to do their thing ... causes diamonds and rust ... hard irony as found in song an rye indeterminate expressions?

The things that are "out there" to learn ... by old salts!
 
BetteTheRed said:
Airclean, curb your arrogance, please. I suspect I may know the Bible as well as you. I'm dropping this subject, as we've gone well off the topic of gay kids.

If one is to err in translation on the side of love, i.e. concluding that apparent condemnations refer to 1st century Palestinian problems, e.g. temple prostitution, Roman pederasty, then it seems to me that non-judgmentalism should be our default position. Which doesn't seem to be the case

.
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--Curb my arrogance Betty. Try this" Are work is not to know The Bible better than someone else . It Is To Know an understand the way of The Living GOD Betty. The Holy Spirit is The Teacher not any Human kind.We may try an help as GOD gives us lead to do so. But no person knows or understands GOD better than GODS own Holy Spirit.The Men and the Women Who wrote GODS word The Bible, did so through GODS Holy Spirit".. Some of my Brothers and Sisters may well understand GODS word better than I. But we are guided by the same Holy Spirit. If I don't know or understand GODS Word. Then GODS Holy Spirit will teach me in it"s own time. If your trying to teach me something through GODS Spirit as may be. I will apologize. As God knows I am a BIT hard headed. If your trying to change The words The Apostles spoke. I would just say . Get thee behind me.
 
Should mortals know an exceptional expanse of linguists to get by the English Monarchist goals ... to pull the wool over common simple people's eyes (I'z?)?

This could amount to an integral of perspectives or vast visions ... approaching eternal ... or even when you approach the edge of life that is a pain for so many people ...

When will they ever learn? ... the elevated and elite ... I mean! What a comedown ... such humbling to do etude on black scribbles in a variety of concepts ... SPECTRES in essence? Autonomous stuff like this fascinate me ...
 
It is astonishing what people will inscribe on a veil to fool those people that are out there improperly questioning ...

Such inquisitions are private concerns ... keep them under cover ... or some monarchist will have your head on a platter ... even the biblical record say the gentile people don't need monarchs .. they just cost piles ... and then you have to encroach on others to support the silly concepts of roue'Ls!

If one had a bit of heart and soul ... they could probably open up ... in a realm avoiding knowledge one better keep the head down ... the point of de plume is acceptable as hen scratches on the page buoyed ... by media? Such is the word ... mis' understood by pools of people ... as Ephraim in unseen genre ... spirit to be awakened by impulse? That's an odd collision ... like ions or eons in space? Warped time! O'mega 'd ... tue beas?
 
To RitaTG ---sorry for this I will not derail your thread again --just want to answer this post ----

Pr.Jae ------your quote -----It has to do with rule-following. Here, @@BetteTheRed is correct.

I side with God for rule following and His word not People -------God's word has done me well God has rules so that is what I follow ----Humans will never trump The Holy Spirit when it comes to me choosing who to believe or rule following------ I love my Love and I thank God for that not you or -----BetteTheRed or any other human ------My life is not my own ---I belong to Jesus Christ who laid his life down for me -----Jesus did not have a choice He did what His Father sent Him here to do -----He even ask to have this taken away from Him ---Jesus did not want to be abused ---punched ----beaten ---and flogged ----we have free choice to cast down evil thoughts or act on them but without God who has triumphed over evil we are weak and Satan is very persistent in keeping us away from God and doing evil ------So for me my choice depends on who I am entertaining God or Satan --- So if I get a thought to commit murder and I don't take charge of these thoughts My body will move towards my thought ---God can give me the strength to cast the thought down ----


This is article on this word ---timshel ---read here http://www.bibleinvestigation.com/timshel/

It’s funny what shapes a person’s religious beliefs and paradigms. Perhaps one of the biggest influences on mine comes from a passage of writing that appears not in the Bible, but in John Steinbeck’sEast of Eden, of all works! In it lies an account of a small group of Chinese philosophers who strove for over a decade to understand the meaning of a single verse from the Bible. They read everything they could get their hands on, consulted linguistic experts, and even learned Hebrew themselves in order to get at the meaning of but a single word!

----- But the Hebrew word, the word timshel—‘Thou mayest’— that gives a choice. It might be the most important word in the world. That says the way is open.That throws it right back on a man.For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.’ Don’t you see?”

Jesus is the head of the church Not man ----so we don't have a choice in that regard -----

This is what we have free will to choose on ----then it becomes an obedience issue


Joshua 24:15Living Bible (TLB)

15 But if you are unwilling to obey the Lord, then decide today whom you will obey. Will it be the gods of your ancestors beyond the Euphrates or the gods of the Amorites here in this land? But as for me and my family, we will serve the Lord.”
 
unsafe said:
To RitaTG ---sorry for this I will not derail your thread again --just want to answer this post ----

Pr.Jae ------your quote -----It has to do with rule-following. Here, @@BetteTheRed is correct.

I side with God for rule following and His word not People -------God's word has done me well God has rules so that is what I follow ----Humans will never trump The Holy Spirit when it comes to me choosing who to believe or rule following------ I love my Love and I thank God for that not you or -----BetteTheRed or any other human ------My life is not my own ---I belong to Jesus Christ who laid his life down for me -----Jesus did not have a choice He did what His Father sent Him here to do -----He even ask to have this taken away from Him ---Jesus did not want to be abused ---punched ----beaten ---and flogged ----we have free choice to cast down evil thoughts or act on them but without God who has triumphed over evil we are weak and Satan is very persistent in keeping us away from God and doing evil ------So for me my choice depends on who I am entertaining God or Satan --- So if I get a thought to commit murder and I don't take charge of these thoughts My body will move towards my thought ---God can give me the strength to cast the thought down ----


This is article on this word ---timshel ---read here http://www.bibleinvestigation.com/timshel/

It’s funny what shapes a person’s religious beliefs and paradigms. Perhaps one of the biggest influences on mine comes from a passage of writing that appears not in the Bible, but in John Steinbeck’sEast of Eden, of all works! In it lies an account of a small group of Chinese philosophers who strove for over a decade to understand the meaning of a single verse from the Bible. They read everything they could get their hands on, consulted linguistic experts, and even learned Hebrew themselves in order to get at the meaning of but a single word!

----- But the Hebrew word, the word timshel—‘Thou mayest’— that gives a choice. It might be the most important word in the world. That says the way is open.That throws it right back on a man.For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.’ Don’t you see?”

Jesus is the head of the church Not man ----so we don't have a choice in that regard -----

This is what we have free will to choose on ----then it becomes an obedience issue


Joshua 24:15Living Bible (TLB)

15 But if you are unwilling to obey the Lord, then decide today whom you will obey. Will it be the gods of your ancestors beyond the Euphrates or the gods of the Amorites here in this land? But as for me and my family, we will serve the Lord.”
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Okay. I was talking about rule-following in regard to English grammar.
 
Absolutely. And the word timsh'l can be translated in (at least) three different ways.

This highlights one area in which Judaism and Christianity have diverged very widely. In Jewish thought, it's an absolute obligation to wrestle personally with the text - Torah. Disagreement is normal and vehement. It's not disparaging to suggest that if you get three Jews together to discuss Torah, there will emerge four opinions - it's what they do. Christianity, OTOH, seems to use translation differences in order to fuel schisms...
 
Very stron personas believe that all others should not think different than the self-declared authority ... something that comes from being overconfident about indeterminate singularities ... things beyond mortals!
 
BetteTheRed said:
Absolutely. And the word timsh'l can be translated in (at least) three different ways.

This highlights one area in which Judaism and Christianity have diverged very widely. In Jewish thought, it's an absolute obligation to wrestle personally with the text - Torah. Disagreement is normal and vehement. It's not disparaging to suggest that if you get three Jews together to discuss Torah, there will emerge four opinions - it's what they do. Christianity, OTOH, seems to use translation differences in order to fuel schisms...
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--BettyThe red--You are very deep.

Timshel—Man's Ability to Choose Between Good and Evil

Now could you tell me how you put that together with The first Adam . An The second Adam Christ Jesus.
 
I'm not relating this to Adam or Jesus.

I'm attempting to explain that it's not entirely clear whether God told Cain that:

i) He MUST overcome evil (the imperative)
ii) He WILL overcome evil (the predestination)
iii) He MIGHT OR MIGHT NOT overcome evil (free will)

How this becomes a discussion of Adam or Jesus, I'm not sure. I'm not even sure I agree. Free will is a much-touted concept with very little empirical evidence; it appears that most of us think we're doing the best we can with what we've got most moments. And what happens to us, for good or bad, in the first 3 years or so of life, including our geography, probably determines the course of our life pretty accurately.

And really, we're supposed to be talking about how the church continues to kill its gay kids, despite all of the wisdom that secular society can convey to Her.
 
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