GordW
Church-Geek-Oramus
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THat is one interpretation. It has both merits and weaknesses as accounting for all the data.
Serious post on r/unitedchurchofcanada
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unsafe
Well-Known Member
All Religions are doing the Same today there GodW ------they are preaching to appease the people Not God -------and God knows how many Atheists are preaching in the Pulpits today in any given man made religious Church ------
All Religions need to get back to Preaching Truth and stop sugarcoating and watering down Scripture to make People feel welcome in their Churches ---
Adding this ---Religions today are preaching Empty worldly Trust -----in my view
Jesus said this ----no holding back out of fear of offending people -----He was Blunt and to the Point ---and What He says here is the same today -----
So Preach that ------
All Religions need to get back to Preaching Truth and stop sugarcoating and watering down Scripture to make People feel welcome in their Churches ---
Adding this ---Religions today are preaching Empty worldly Trust -----in my view
Jesus said this ----no holding back out of fear of offending people -----He was Blunt and to the Point ---and What He says here is the same today -----
So Preach that ------
unsafe
Well-Known Member
Here is is what the Man Made Catholic Religion Believes ----so they say ---
I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible.
I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified who has spoken through the prophets.
Jesus himself when he said to the Apostle Peter, “You are the rock on which I will build my church. The gates of hell will not prevail against it.”
Every pope since then has been part of an unbroken line of succession since Peter, the first pope.
I say ------So here you see just How man can twist Scripture to suit their Human interpretation of what they are reading and Misuse the Scripture to say what they want people to believe ---through their own deception ----
This what they say here--- is False Doctrine -----Folks ------
We are the original Christian Church, which began when Jesus himself when he said to the Apostle Peter, “You are the rock on which I will build my church.
I say -----No where in the Bible in any of the 66 books does it say Jesus said to Peter --you are now the Rock on which my Catholic Church will be built -----
This is where the Word Catholic came from -----according to the Catholic Church --
St. Ignatius of Antioch who they say was a Disciple of John
Google says
There is no mention of St. Ignatius of Antioch or his relationship with the Apostle John anywhere in the Bible
It Is Not in Scripture
The New Testament timeline: The books of the New Testament were written in the first century, mostly concluding by or before the end of the first century AD, whereas Ignatius wrote his famous seven epistles around AD 110 while traveling to his martyrdom in Rome.
Silence in authentic letters: In his own genuine letters, Ignatius never explicitly states that he was a personal disciple or hearer of John the Apostle.
The Source of the Tradition
The belief that Ignatius was a disciple of John does not come from scripture, but from early church tradition and later historical writings:
I say
Here is another Twisted Deception of the Catholic Church that they pass on to people
Catholic Church says -------Every pope since then has been part of an unbroken line of succession since Peter, the first pope.
-----Nowhere in Scripture does it say Peter was the First Pope Folks -----
GotQuestions.org
https://www.gotquestions.org › Peter-first-pope
Jun 5, 2025 — Was Peter the first pope? The answer is “no.” Peter nowhere claims supremacy over the other apostles, and the New Testament does not demonstrate ...Read more
I say -------So you see already how Man made Religion makes up their own Twisted doctrine and passes it on to people who are ignorant of the real truth of what the Scripture is saying --
This is very dangerous Folks as eternal lives are at stake -----and the truth of the Scripture will set people free from the eternal 2nd death ------
From Christianity .com
I say -------False Doctrine --No where in scripture does it say to Pray to the Saints for anything -----yet they make up their own Doctrine and Preach it to the ignorant people sitting in the pews who depend on them to Preach Truth ---not a Different Doctrine ----
-----Jesus is the only one who can intercede for us ------and that is according to God's word ---by praying to the Saints your putting them ahead of Jesus Christ -----Not Good Folks -----
The Catholics tell their Flock ----- Pray to Mary ----and many Catholic Churches has a huge Statute of Mary that they bow to ---Idolatry at its best ----
So why do they do it ----
www.catholic.com
I say ---so here they use Scripture to justify this ------and because of their ignorance of who the woman represents they seem to take it is Mary -----in my view
What is the meaning of Revelation 12:17?
And the dragon was enraged at the woman
In Revelation 12:9 the “dragon” is clearly identified as Satan. His fury erupts because the “woman” (introduced in 12:1–6) has just been rescued by God (12:14–16).
The woman represents the covenant people through whom Messiah came
God’s preservation of the woman underscores His faithfulness to Israel even during intensified tribulation (Jeremiah 31:35–37; Romans 11:26–29).
I say ----The woman here is Israel --Not Mary and it is not saying that people should pray to Pray or Bow down to a Mary to intercedes for them ----
I say ----What does God hate about Man Made Religions with their man made traditions and feasts -----and their Intellectual Preaching ---that they are all Spiritually empty -----
Jesus is speaking about the Religious Leaders here -----
but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.
Study Bible
‘These people honor Me with their lips,
Jesus quotes Isaiah 29:13 to expose worship that preserves religious language while resisting God’s authority.
The Pharisees and scribes publicly professed devotion to the Lord, yet their elevation of human tradition above God’s command revealed the emptiness of their profession.
but their hearts are far from Me.
God seeks the inward allegiance of the whole person, not merely correct words or visible religious practice.
A heart far from God cannot be brought near by ceremony or tradition.
Jesus calls His hearers to the genuine devotion promised in the new covenant, where God writes His law upon the heart (Jeremiah 31:33).
Matthew 15:9 from Bible Hub study Bible ---
They worship Me in vain;
Worship becomes empty when ------outward religious activity is separated from faith, obedience, and reverence for God.
Jesus applies Isaiah 29:13 to religious leaders whose lips honored God while their hearts were governed by self-made traditions.
God seeks those who worship Him in spirit and truth, offering hearts yielded to His Word.
they teach as doctrine ----the precepts of men.’”
The Pharisees and scribes treated inherited oral traditions as binding authority, even when those traditions obscured or contradicted God’s commands.
Jesus exposed the danger of allowing religious customs, however established, to govern the conscience in place of divine revelation.
God’s people must test every teaching by His written Word.
the precepts of men.’”
Human rules cannot produce the righteousness or devotion God requires.
Detailed regulations concerning ceremonial practices had come to overshadow weightier matters such as honoring parents, mercy, faithfulness, and obedience.
Christ’s rebuke calls believers to reject any tradition that displaces God’s authority and to serve Him from hearts transformed by truth.
I say ------This is worth repeating about a hundred times -----and More --Folks
Christ’s rebuke calls believers to
reject any tradition that displaces God’s authority
and to serve Him from hearts transformed by truth.
So How many minister's today are keeping Traditions that Displaces God's authority and How many are Serving and Preaching from a heart that is NOT Transformed by Truth ------
Keeping their Man Made Religions Human Driven ----not God Driven -----
What do Catholics believe?
What are the core beliefs of the Catholic faith?
The core beliefs of the Catholic faith are found in the Nicene Creed. Here’s what it says:I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible.
I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified who has spoken through the prophets.
Who started the Catholic Church?
We are the original Christian Church, which began whenJesus himself when he said to the Apostle Peter, “You are the rock on which I will build my church. The gates of hell will not prevail against it.”
Every pope since then has been part of an unbroken line of succession since Peter, the first pope.
I say ------So here you see just How man can twist Scripture to suit their Human interpretation of what they are reading and Misuse the Scripture to say what they want people to believe ---through their own deception ----
This what they say here--- is False Doctrine -----Folks ------
We are the original Christian Church, which began when Jesus himself when he said to the Apostle Peter, “You are the rock on which I will build my church.
I say -----No where in the Bible in any of the 66 books does it say Jesus said to Peter --you are now the Rock on which my Catholic Church will be built -----
This is where the Word Catholic came from -----according to the Catholic Church --
St. Ignatius of Antioch who they say was a Disciple of John
Google says
There is no mention of St. Ignatius of Antioch or his relationship with the Apostle John anywhere in the Bible
It Is Not in Scripture
The New Testament timeline: The books of the New Testament were written in the first century, mostly concluding by or before the end of the first century AD, whereas Ignatius wrote his famous seven epistles around AD 110 while traveling to his martyrdom in Rome.
Silence in authentic letters: In his own genuine letters, Ignatius never explicitly states that he was a personal disciple or hearer of John the Apostle.
The Source of the Tradition
The belief that Ignatius was a disciple of John does not come from scripture, but from early church tradition and later historical writings:
I say
Here is another Twisted Deception of the Catholic Church that they pass on to people
Catholic Church says -------Every pope since then has been part of an unbroken line of succession since Peter, the first pope.
-----Nowhere in Scripture does it say Peter was the First Pope Folks -----
GotQuestions.org
https://www.gotquestions.org › Peter-first-pope
Jun 5, 2025 — Was Peter the first pope? The answer is “no.” Peter nowhere claims supremacy over the other apostles, and the New Testament does not demonstrate ...Read more
I say -------So you see already how Man made Religion makes up their own Twisted doctrine and passes it on to people who are ignorant of the real truth of what the Scripture is saying --
This is very dangerous Folks as eternal lives are at stake -----and the truth of the Scripture will set people free from the eternal 2nd death ------
From Christianity .com
What Do Catholics Actually Believe about Praying to Saints?
the Catholic view, saints—those who have died with faith in Jesus Christ—can intercede for us.I say -------False Doctrine --No where in scripture does it say to Pray to the Saints for anything -----yet they make up their own Doctrine and Preach it to the ignorant people sitting in the pews who depend on them to Preach Truth ---not a Different Doctrine ----
-----Jesus is the only one who can intercede for us ------and that is according to God's word ---by praying to the Saints your putting them ahead of Jesus Christ -----Not Good Folks -----
1 Timothy 2:
5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ JesusThe Catholics tell their Flock ----- Pray to Mary ----and many Catholic Churches has a huge Statute of Mary that they bow to ---Idolatry at its best ----
So why do they do it ----
Why Do Catholics Pray to Mary? | Catholic Answers
Non-Catholic Christians often ask why we pray to Mary when we can go directly to Jesus. Click here to see how Catholics can respond.
Question:
Why we should pray to mother Mary?Answer:
Why Pray to Mary? Because Jesus has given us his Blessed Mother as our great spiritual mother (Rev.12:17), a heavenly advocate who intercedes for us.I say ---so here they use Scripture to justify this ------and because of their ignorance of who the woman represents they seem to take it is Mary -----in my view
What is the meaning of Revelation 12:17?
And the dragon was enraged at the woman
In Revelation 12:9 the “dragon” is clearly identified as Satan. His fury erupts because the “woman” (introduced in 12:1–6) has just been rescued by God (12:14–16).
The woman represents the covenant people through whom Messiah came
God’s preservation of the woman underscores His faithfulness to Israel even during intensified tribulation (Jeremiah 31:35–37; Romans 11:26–29).
I say ----The woman here is Israel --Not Mary and it is not saying that people should pray to Pray or Bow down to a Mary to intercedes for them ----
I say ----What does God hate about Man Made Religions with their man made traditions and feasts -----and their Intellectual Preaching ---that they are all Spiritually empty -----
Jesus is speaking about the Religious Leaders here -----
Matthew 15:8-9
8 “‘These people honor me with their lips,but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.
Study Bible
‘These people honor Me with their lips,
Jesus quotes Isaiah 29:13 to expose worship that preserves religious language while resisting God’s authority.
The Pharisees and scribes publicly professed devotion to the Lord, yet their elevation of human tradition above God’s command revealed the emptiness of their profession.
but their hearts are far from Me.
God seeks the inward allegiance of the whole person, not merely correct words or visible religious practice.
A heart far from God cannot be brought near by ceremony or tradition.
Jesus calls His hearers to the genuine devotion promised in the new covenant, where God writes His law upon the heart (Jeremiah 31:33).
Matthew 15:9 from Bible Hub study Bible ---
They worship Me in vain;
Worship becomes empty when ------outward religious activity is separated from faith, obedience, and reverence for God.
Jesus applies Isaiah 29:13 to religious leaders whose lips honored God while their hearts were governed by self-made traditions.
God seeks those who worship Him in spirit and truth, offering hearts yielded to His Word.
they teach as doctrine ----the precepts of men.’”
The Pharisees and scribes treated inherited oral traditions as binding authority, even when those traditions obscured or contradicted God’s commands.
Jesus exposed the danger of allowing religious customs, however established, to govern the conscience in place of divine revelation.
God’s people must test every teaching by His written Word.
the precepts of men.’”
Human rules cannot produce the righteousness or devotion God requires.
Detailed regulations concerning ceremonial practices had come to overshadow weightier matters such as honoring parents, mercy, faithfulness, and obedience.
Christ’s rebuke calls believers to reject any tradition that displaces God’s authority and to serve Him from hearts transformed by truth.
I say ------This is worth repeating about a hundred times -----and More --Folks
Christ’s rebuke calls believers to
reject any tradition that displaces God’s authority
and to serve Him from hearts transformed by truth.
So How many minister's today are keeping Traditions that Displaces God's authority and How many are Serving and Preaching from a heart that is NOT Transformed by Truth ------
Keeping their Man Made Religions Human Driven ----not God Driven -----
Last edited:
BetteTheRed
Resident Heretic
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
You keep on making wyrd statements like this.
ALL religion is "man made". Shrimp and trees and cats don't care about human religious beliefs.
You think the brand you in particular have come up with is the perfect belief system. But you're as clueless as anyone. I can find biblical support against ANY position you might hold. In fact, hilariously, your fondness for the Amplified Bible makes it dead easy, but I can do it with other translations.
Additionally, you seem not to understand that "catholic" in the way it is used in much of Christendom is "universal". When a UCC minister baptizes a child into the catholic church, they are making them a member of the "universal" christian family (pretty close, anyway - those that believe in infant baptism and requiring the Trinitarian words of Father, Son and Holy Spirit), not the specific denomination of Roman Catholicism.
Jaebius
Canadian in Korea
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- He/Him/His
That's a great point, Bette. It also explains why many of us, including protestants, who use The Apostles' Creed say we believe in the catholic church
unsafe
Well-Known Member
It is God's Perfect Belief System there BetteTheRed Not mine ----I just Believe His total Perfect System ------
I know you can so why don't you ---why don't you defend what you believe ---Post away ---
You can critiicize the Amp Bible all you like ---your not hurting me any ----I like it and that is that -----
Well whether I understand it or not ---I do understand that some of what they preach is definately not Scriptural -----like praying to the Saints and bowing and praying to Mary ---and that is what concerns me --period
Well ---Baby baptism is not Scriptural ----What I have been told by my Cousin who is Catholic is that today Baby Baptism is Done by believing Parents who profess to bring their children to church and teach them about the Faith -----
This is from Got Questions --read all yourselves
What is baby dedication? Is child / baby dedication biblical? | GotQuestions.org
What is baby dedication? Is child / baby dedication biblical? Does the Bible describe parents dedicating their children to the Lord?
www.gotquestions.org
What is baby dedication?
In the majority of Protestant denominations that practice it, child dedication is a symbolic ceremony undertaken by Christian parents soon after the birth of a child. Some churches perform these ceremonies en masse and have several couples and children participating at the same time. The rite is intended to be a public statement by the parents that they will train their children in the Christian faith and seek to instill that faith in them. The congregation often responds through responsive reading or some other method to affirm that they, as a church family, will also seek to encourage the parents to bring up the child in the faith. There is no implied salvation in the ceremony, and it varies from church to church.I say ----Some parents may take their babies to church every Sunday after they get Baptised and some parents after they get their child baptised never set foot in the Church till Christmas and Easter time -----
So unless the parents are dedicated to their Faith and teach their Children at home not just taking them to church but nurturing their Faith daily ----then the Baptism is fruitless and that is my opinion -----
Jaebius
Canadian in Korea
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Jesus didn't treat children as outsiders, unsafe.
It is God's Perfect Belief System there BetteTheRed Not mine ----I just Believe His total Perfect System ------
I know you can so why don't you ---why don't you defend what you believe ---Post away ---
You can critiicize the Amp Bible all you like ---your not hurting me any ----I like it and that is that -----
Well whether I understand it or not ---I do understand that some of what they preach is definately not Scriptural -----like praying to the Saints and bowing and praying to Mary ---and that is what concerns me --period
Well ---Baby baptism is not Scriptural ----What I have been told by my Cousin who is Catholic is that today Baby Baptism is Done by believing Parents who profess to bring their children to church and teach them about the Faith -----
This is from Got Questions --read all yourselves
What is baby dedication? Is child / baby dedication biblical? | GotQuestions.org
What is baby dedication? Is child / baby dedication biblical? Does the Bible describe parents dedicating their children to the Lord?www.gotquestions.orgWhat is baby dedication?
In the majority of Protestant denominations that practice it, child dedication is a symbolic ceremony undertaken by Christian parents soon after the birth of a child. Some churches perform these ceremonies en masse and have several couples and children participating at the same time. The rite is intended to be a public statement by the parents that they will train their children in the Christian faith and seek to instill that faith in them. The congregation often responds through responsive reading or some other method to affirm that they, as a church family, will also seek to encourage the parents to bring up the child in the faith. There is no implied salvation in the ceremony, and it varies from church to church.
I say ----Some parents may take their babies to church every Sunday after they get Baptised and some parents after they get their child baptised never set foot in the Church till Christmas and Easter time -----
So unless the parents are dedicated to their Faith and teach their Children at home not just taking them to church but nurturing their Faith daily ----then the Baptism is fruitless and that is my opinion -----
He said, "Let the little children come to me. Don't hinder them. For to such belongs the kingdom of heaven" (Mat 19:14).
The question's where the NT ever exclude believers' children from receiving the covenant sign they'd always received.
Infants' baptism points to grace. Before a child can choose, speak, grasp, or accomplish anything, God says, "My promise comes first."
That's the gospel in miniature
unsafe
Well-Known Member
Where did I say he did -----
Children are born with the Sin Natire but God in His Grace and Mercy deem children as Innocent as they do not know Good from Evil and they have no idea what sin is nor do they know what the Consequances of sin are ----
So God gives Children a Grace period until they become aware of right and wrong He does not impute sin on them -----
Children are God's blessings to Parents ----and Jesus Blessed Children ------
Isaiah 7 NIV---read it in Context yourself
The Sign of Immanuel
13 Then Isaiah said, “Hear now, you house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of humans? Will you try the patience of my God also?
14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you[c] a sign: The virgin[d] will conceive and give birth to a son, and[e] will call him Immanuel.[f]
15 He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right,
16 for before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste.
Deuteronomy 1 GNT ----this is Israel entering the Promised land -
read in context yourself
The Lord Punishes Israel
37 Because of you the Lord also became angry with me and said, ‘Not even you, Moses, will enter the land. 38 But strengthen the determination of your helper, Joshua son of Nun. He will lead Israel to occupy the land.’
39 “Then the Lord said to all of us, ‘Your children, who are still too young to know right from wrong, will enter the land—the children you said would be seized by your enemies. I will give the land to them, and they will occupy it.
Jaebius
Canadian in Korea
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Jesus came, unsafe, because all of us, young and old alike, need His grace.
I see children as precious image-bearers who are especially embraced by God's covenant mercy
chansen
Had a point all along
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Jaebius
Canadian in Korea
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No one here makes it to a Thanksgiving service. Few people here even celebrate Thanksgiving. And those who do usually celebrate it in Novemberwww.reddit.com
Another post at r/unitedchurchofcanada. This one about who is going to make it to a Thanksgiving service.
Maybe we'll see an uptick in traffic on reddit. Can't get much more dead there.
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Yes. I get that. But in this case I wasn’t part of the family but the things stated generally but targeting the three attending children and others was just downright mean. It’s a struggling congregation with no minister and I think some congregation members are becoming grumpier.
JayneWonders
Administrator
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Nancy
Well-Known Member
I like the congregation I am part of. That doesn’t mean that there are no hurt feelings sometimes. And that is very much like family. But I need forgiveness for the times I misstep or speak harshly. So I need to forgive in kind. So the church that I started talking about made me re-think my worship-leading. I go there at the end of the month again so I will determine then if I am a good fit for them or not.
Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
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Having been in UU'ism where many congregations deliberately operate with no minister, I can see this. One of the benefits of calling a minister is that they are an outsider who is empowered to call and inspire the congregation to be and do better. Absent that outside influence, I think congregations can become more inward-looking and clannish, leading to this kind of grumpiness. It's part of why I fell by the wayside with the local fellowship. Their decision to go lay-led concerned me because they were still dealing with internal conflicts stemming from the transition from being basically a humanist church to a more diverse group and an outside voice could, to my eye, help with that transition.
Short version: The old humanists who founded the place and were gradually withdrawing or dying off didn't like that some of us newer members actually wanted to call the place a "church" and talk about "God" for certain definitions of "God".