CARNEY - Some people think......... How do you feel?

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The 3 ethics:
  • Means to and end ...
  • Rules for an end (Kantian) ...
  • Situational (we've never been here before ... Irish Rovers)!
Can these be combined without Don neigh Brook flushing (especially out of NUY Ork)? It is all about business of eliminating people ... whatever label is attached, or appended ... depends ... a device to cover for the end! Life seems to be arranged for the brilliantly stupid and the end for those opposed to such fickle goals .

Whatever ... the greatest lie will win ... the virtue cannot be told or identified as it doesn't belong here ... later! It just follows ...
 
It was a fantastic speech. However, it did not indicate the real enemies to democracy who are the oligarchs who have been working for the last 45+ years to end democracy. I heard the opening lecture on CBC Ideas on Tuesday evening by a Dutch historian. Even my wife thought it was powerful. Carney had some great lines. The lecture had important substance.
 
jimkenney12 said:
However, it did not indicate the real enemies to democracy who are the oligarchs who have been working for the last 45+ years to end democracy.
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And I don't think addressing that was by any means the purpose of the speech so I don't think he could be expected to indicate that. The purpose of the speech was to define Canada's position in a world where the traditional ways of doing trade and diplomacy are being upended by people like Trump and Putin.
 
Mendalla said:
And I don't think addressing that was by any means the purpose of the speech so I don't think he could be expected to indicate that. The purpose of the speech was to define Canada's position in a world where the traditional ways of doing trade and diplomacy are being upended by people like Trump and Putin.
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Agreed. I just wanted to offer a reminder that Trump is not our only threat.
 
WhyCzar said:
:unsure: Seasoning over substance?
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Substance with seasoning.

A boring speech with good content would be ignored. Speeches like this one come around only every so often. It was immensely quotable, but it had a vision and an offer: We have what they need. Join with us.

In modern Internet terms, "Apes together strong".

When you have populist, fascist leaders in the world, the best antidote seems to be democratic leaders who are strong orators. I literally didn't know that Carney had it in him. I'm glad he does. We, collectively in the world, needed that. It reminded us of what leadership sounds like. We haven't heard it in a while.
 
It has been said that the US will never be trusted again!

Given how this rubs off on other powers; should we ask about the importance of trust and responsibility ... is it critical?

What kind of damage can one loose screw do to an entire system of belief?

Is this something we'd rather not know? If seems we don't want to know about these things ... a false incarnation as it appears?
 
jimkenney12 said:
Agreed. I just wanted to offer a reminder that Trump is not our only threat.
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Carney did not claim that there was a nice "rules-based international order" until Trump came along.

What Carney did confess was that this "rules-based international order" has long been a fraud that western nations pretended was true because it was in their interests to maintain this lie.

Now that it is no longer in Canada's interest to maintain the lie - what is Mark's proposed direction forward?
 
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WhyCzar said:
Now that it is no longer in Canada's interest to maintain the lie - what is Mark's proposed direction forward?
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Disappear for a while then come back to the international community under a new name?

Carney literally proposed that "middle powers" with common values build coalitions to negotiate with the great powers and apply rules fairly while resisting rules that oppress less powerful nations. That was kind of the entire conclusion of the speech.
 
chansen said:
Carney literally proposed that "middle powers" with common values build coalitions to negotiate with the great powers and apply rules fairly while resisting rules that oppress less powerful nations.
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And, yet, one of his first deals was with China who is hardly a "middle power". He's quite happy playing footsie with the big boys regardless of what he says about middle powers building coalitions. My forecast (perhaps slightly biased given who I share an address with) is that China is stickhandling their way into the sole superpower role that the US tried to occupy post-Cold War. And Xi seems to be the guy to do it, too. All it would really take now would be a total and final collapse of the US, which Trump seems to be working hard on.
 
Mrs.Anteater said:
I wonder who translated his speech for Trump into three sentences he can understand.
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Trump's own translation in three sentences as he himself understood it:
1."Canada gets a lot of freebies from us, by the way -they should be grateful, also, but they're not"
2. "Canada lives because of the United States."
3. "Remember that, @MarkJCarney, the next time you make your statements."
 
chansen said:
Substance with seasoning.

A boring speech with good content would be ignored. Speeches like this one come around only every so often. It was immensely quotable, but it had a vision and an offer: We have what they need. Join with us.

In modern Internet terms, "Apes together strong".

When you have populist, fascist leaders in the world, the best antidote seems to be democratic leaders who are strong orators. I literally didn't know that Carney had it in him. I'm glad he does. We, collectively in the world, needed that. It reminded us of what leadership sounds like. We haven't heard it in a while.
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Leadership or a well rehearsed speech and some acting skills? I haven’t heard it. Just saying.

Ontarians are entirely too big L liberal, if they’re not Conservative. It’s not really that progressive. Not enough for me. Easy to bring in a kind of quiet small f fascism that people with enough money can be insulated from the effects of but don’t even realize it. The environmentalists certainly aren’t happy about the pro-pipeline stance after it seemed like things might be moving away from it. But all of a sudden the big L liberals who were progressive “yesterday” have done the pivot with him like lemmings.

I love Canada. Enough to feel like every Canadian, even and especially the struggling ones, need more than empty neoliberal platitudes. They shouldn’t have to be collateral damage in Canada’s efforts to ward off foreign powers with money pumped into the military while they cut from the bottom with MAiD expansion. It is related, as I see it. It will be, increasingly. People are getting poorer, housing is out of reach for many, healthcare is gutted, community social services are disappearing, and we’re gearing up for war. Not good times. Mental health and addictions are becoming more of an epidemic (that hits other marginalized groups harder) and MAiD expansion into mental illness is set to start in 2027, and Carney hasn’t said boo about it. I don’t like him. He’s going to look after people more like himself and ignore the rest of us, I feel. If so, that’s not good leadership.

Dealing with Trump and Putin are important, but preserving human rights at home is also important. Marginalized people will become expendable (already are) in the wars being fought at home (little “civil wars” in lower income neighborhoods already started) and abroad, and the comfortable middle class won’t have to look at it so much. There’s historical precedent for that, too.
 
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Ah, he’s a central banker. He knows there’s enough money to go around if they just print more - but instead people have to struggle and die for other peoples’ comforts, and other peoples’ wars while he makes compromises with bullies. It’s all bulls**t really, in the big picture.
 
Something interesting seems to be happening within CP dynamics since the speech -- anyone seen that? Like @Mendalla's partner, there seems to be a kind of relief among CP "lite" voters that Carney aligns with more with their position than PP. I'm looking at that. Maybe a move to jettison the "Reformers" and toward "Blue Liberal" or "Red Tory".
 
ninj said:
Something interesting seems to be happening within CP dynamics since the speech -- anyone seen that? Like @Mendalla's partner, there seems to be a kind of relief among CP "lite" voters that Carney aligns with more with their position than PP. I'm looking at that. Maybe a move to jettison the "Reformers" and toward "Blue Liberal" or "Red Tory".
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Years ago, someone said, “The Liberals campaign to the left and govern to the right.” I think that’s generally true. I don’t think it’s just Conservatives who are newly aligning (the NDP tanked). Politics around the world has shifted so far to the right, a Stephen Harper/ Peter MacKay approach that liberal progressives were afraid of back in the day, now seems tolerable to the same progressives supporting the Liberals today.

Carney’s campaign was short, but he did campaign to an audience that might perceive themselves to be left leaning, and even progressive in an American Democratic Party context, by appearing on Jon Stewart’s show, and doing the light hearted “elbows up” commercial with Mike Meyers, who Americans are familiar with from Hollywood and SNL - generally Dem supporters. He got interviewed by Nardwuar (who is now being awarded the Order of Canada) - a nod to Canadian GenXers who used their ironic sensibilities and slacker pop trivia skills to help themselves become upwardly mobile (I am happy about that, must say - might be my favourite thing Carney has done - it was heartwarming). His strategists knew who he was playing to. The elbows up stuck, so even if he needs to placate Trump and undo progress in some areas, people who lean left and right will believe it’s all in good “elbows up” faith, for the country. And in some ways, it is, but he’s leaving a lot of people, and progress, out.
 
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American Democrats have been, until recently, to the right of Liberals. On the political compass, they were in about the same spot as Harper Conservatives. I think the Dems and our Liberals are even more closely aligned now.
 
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