Snoopy Considers 1 Corinthians

[unsafe]

Wouldn't you suppose God would give everyone the gift of faith?

God does give everyone the gift of intellectual Faith or Human Faith -----you have it when your born ----it is a non producing Faith that is given to all -----as this Faith relies on your 5 senses ----the Faith talked about in this Scripture is a producing Faith ----a deep rooted faith that has the power to Do God's work ---given by the Holy Spirit -----

These nine gifts talked about in this Chapter are not given to everyone -----

AI


"The gift of faith" refers to a special ability given by the Holy Spirit to certain individuals within a religious community, allowing them to have an extraordinary level of confidence and trust in God's promises and power, even when faced with challenging circumstances, essentially acting on God's will with unwavering belief, beyond their typical level of faith; it's considered a spiritual gift that enables them to discern and act on God's purposes with a strong conviction that goes beyond their normal capacity to believe

 

[BetteTheRed]

Correct me if I'm wrong Bette, which may well be the case here, but I thought Taizé was more about communal living, quiet contemplation, and group chanting

A Taize service is marked by candlelight, periods of contemplation, and short musical meditations that are repeated a number of times. There's one in Barrie every month, usually hosted by one of the Catholic parishes, but our congregation led one once. A dangerous level of candle lighting, in practice, if the truth be known, but from the outside, very beautiful, peaceful, contemplative.

 

[paradox3]

Hey @unsafe
I thought of you when I read this passage this morning.

 

[paradox3]

A Taize service is marked by candlelight, periods of contemplation, and short musical meditations that are repeated a number of times. There's one in Barrie every month, usually hosted by one of the Catholic parishes, but our congregation led one once. A dangerous level of candle lighting, in practice, if the truth be known, but from the outside, very beautiful, peaceful, contemplative.

I feel the same about candlelit Christmas Eve services. Beautiful to behold but not the safest of practices.

In my last job, I saw the chaplains use those little battery operated candles a few times. They are a better substitute for the real thing than you might suppose.

 

[Jaebius]

A Taize service is marked by candlelight, periods of contemplation, and short musical meditations that are repeated a number of times. There's one in Barrie every month, usually hosted by one of the Catholic parishes, but our congregation led one once. A dangerous level of candle lighting, in practice, if the truth be known, but from the outside, very beautiful, peaceful, contemplative.

It sounds wonderful Bette, and something I'd be open to participate in, but not the same as what I was describing. At the one I was talking about, the emphasis is on vocal extemporaneous prayer by all simultaneously in the worship space

 

[paradox3]

It sounds wonderful Bette, and something I'd be open to participate in, but not the same as what I was describing. At the one I was talking about, the emphasis is on vocal extemporaneous prayer by all simultaneously in the worship space

I think @BetteTheRed was saying the vibe was similar. Not that they were identical practices.

 

[unsafe]

! Corinthians Chapter 12 ---

Paul is schooling his Church on the Spiritual Gifts given by and through the Holy Spirit ----

He says that no one speaking under the influence of the Holy Spirit would ever say Jesus be cursed ----and no one can say Jesus is Lord except through the influence and power of the Holy Spirit ---

The gifts listed here are

From Google
A listing of spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10 mentions wisdom, knowledge, faith, healing, miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits, speaking in tongues, and interpretation of tongues.

These gifts are given by the Holy Spirit to certain individuals for God's purpose of doing His work ----so they are not given to everyone -----

Many Christians Believe that these gifts stopped being Given after the death of the Apostles -I believe they are still in existence today as I have the Gift of Speaking in tongues and so did blackbelt and airclean ----Also the Minister and his wife who prayed over me to have this Gift also had the gift of speaking in tongues --and said it was a powerful way to pray as your speaking directly to God not man -----

My experience in getting this gift
They took me to the church and anointed me with oil and both prayed over me in tongues and English to have this gift -----this gift did not appear right away --it was about a week later when my husband and I were taking my son to see stars wars ----I was getting in the car when I stopped and said to my husband ----I can't go --I had a very strong urge to stay home -so I went back in the house and it wasn't long when I had the urge to get on my knees and pray in English ----and all of a sudden this different language was coming from inside of me --I started crying and a peace enveloped me that I had never felt before ---it was an amazing experience ----and I use this gift in my personal prayer life all the time --especially when praying for the healing of a person or when I don't really know what words to used to pray for a person ----or sometimes when I just want to praise God -----

All of God's promises and gifts by and through the Holy Spirit are for today in my view -----

there is tongues that the disciples had to preach the Gospel but there is also an angelic language that is given as well which Paul speaks of in the next Chapter ----13 verse 1

Now not having this gift as a personal prayer language does not mean you are not saved ---as some would have you believe -----and it does not mean your filled with the Holy Spirit as some would have you believe ----and you do not have to have the interpretation of tongues when using it in your personal prayer life -----you need the interpretation when in a Church setting ------

How can one believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God and it is truth and it is alive and active today and say they don't believe that these 9 gifts are still valid today ---that to me makes no sense -----but to each his own ----- I know for a fact that Tongues exist --as I have that gift ------

Agape for God is first and foremost gift to have from the Holy Spirit before any of the 9 gifts gifts of the Spirit ----- Without agape for God you can't access the gifts ------

 

[paradox3]

Let's back up to v.3(b)

. . . And no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit.

This suggests to me that anyone who professes Christian faith or identifies as a follower of Jesus has the benefit of the Holy Spirit.

Since faith is identified as one of the nine spiritual gifts, maybe @unsafe is right and Paul is talking about extraordinary faith of some kind. You would think anyone possessing one of the other eight gifts would also have faith to some degree.

 

[paradox3]

@unsafe
I used to have a colleague who said she had the gift of tongues. She called it her prayer language. Actually now I can recall discussing this with you on another occasion.

I don't have anything of the kind. But I experience what seems like a wordless prayer sometimes. Sitting with wordless thoughts describes it best. It's not really about emotion and it is quite brief.

 

[unsafe]

Let's back up to v.3(b)

. . . And no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit.

This suggests to me that anyone who professes Christian faith or identifies as a follower of Jesus has the benefit of the Holy Spirit.

Well I don't think your right here ---as you need the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which comes by way of Receiving Jesus as your Lord and Saviour ------which comes by way of having Saving Faith inbirthed in you -------which comes by hearing the word -----which comes by way of God the Father changing your hardened heart to an accepting heart to receive inward working of the word which inbirths the right Faith so you can have the Holy Spirit work in you not on you ----it is a spiritual process ----and not all people professing to be Christians or followers have accepted God's drawing -----as there are many scriptures warning of False Christians ----wolves in Sheeps clothing the scripture says ----

You would think anyone possessing one of the other eight gifts would also have faith to some degree.

You are right here ----you have to have Saving Faith inbirthed in you ----You have to be a Born Again person to have these gifts ---

 

[Mystic]

12:13 THE SPIRITUAL HIGHLIGHT OF MY LIFE: MY SPIRIT BAPTISM

At age 16 I was so nagged by doubts about the reliability of Scripture and the authenticity of charismatic manifestations in church that my faith crisis prompted me to spend a week at Manhattan Beach Camp near Ninette, Manitoba with the hope that God would meet me in the Pentecostal camp meetings in the huge outdoor amphitheater there. I responded to the encouragement to seek God at the altar after the services. But my heart felt like stone when I did because I felt tempted to succumb to wishful thinking and just speak gibberish in the flesh. So on Tuesday, I went on a long 7 mile country prayer walk, pleading with God to resolve my crippling doubts and pledging my willingness to die in His service, if He would only make Himself real to me. When I returned from my walk, I was famished and went to the camp dining hall to buy dinner. But then it occurred to me that I should instead fast and put the money I would have spent on dinner into the evening offering plate. So I did and then attended the evening camp meeting.

At the end of the service, as I had done previously in vain, I walked to the altar up front and knelt in prayer. My heart again felt like stone and I was determined not to succumb to the power of suggestion and wishful thinking by stepping out in faith and speaking in tongues. Soon everyone had left and I lingered in my depressing prayer vigil in the mostly darkened amphitheater. Suddenly I felt a warm breeze, which I assumed had blown in off of the adjacent Pelican Lake. I was shocked when I realized that this breeze was in fact the wind of the Holy Spirit! The Spirit immediately overpowered my resistance and I found myself speaking in tongues at the top of my voice. I was engulfed by wave after wave of liquid love, each wave more intense than the last, until I felt like I might die! At one point, my ego seemed on the verge of collapse into the divine mind. I can only describe this outpouring of divine love as a hundred times more intense and sweeter than I have experienced before or since. This proved to be unquestionably the highlight of my life and, decades later, I continue to draw emotional nourishment from the memory of that epic day.

After several minutes, I noticed a few spectators sitting reverently nearby. I asked one lady why she was staring at me and she replied, "Don't you know? Your face is glowing in the dark!" I returned to my knees to continue feasting on God's presence. Then I was interrupted by a Lutheran minister, who tapped me on the shoulder and said he was there only as an interested spectator of other religious traditions and didn't believe in speaking in tongues. But he could sense that God was doing a special work in my spirit and he asked me to pray for him. I didn't argue wit him, but just touched him gently on the forehead and he exploded in other tongues!

When I returned to my cabin, I realized that God had spoken to me, though not in an audible voice or a message printed on the neon screen of my mind. God told me, "You desperately need answers to your vexing questions. But right now answers are not good for you because answers would lead you to live too much in your head rather than from your heart. I'm calling you to live the big questions until they lead you to the center of my heart." That calling led me to get an MDiv from Princeton and a doctorate in New Testament, Judaism, and Greco-Roman religion from Harvard.

Like many others, I believe that speaking in tongues is like a gateway drug that leads to other gifts of the Spirit. Shortly after the experience, I had my first of many experiences of "the word of knowledge (see 1 Corinthians 12:8-10)." I suddenly knew that I would obtain the highest high school GPA in the province as a gift from God to signify my academic calling. At a funeral a few years ago, my cousin reminded me that I had informed him of this divine message before it was fulfilled. Previously, my academic performance had been nothing special. So I believe that my Baptism in the Holy Spirit had "renewed my mind (as per Romans 12:1-2). Duff Roblin, the Premier of the province, awarded my a scholarship in recognition of this achievement. I believe this recognition supported my earlier attempts to witness to classmates, which had seemed to give me a reputation as a religious fanatic. To God be the glory!

Quite apart from the teaching of Paul and the Book of Acts on this matter, I'm convinced that if any of you had experienced what I did that fateful night, it would by BY FAR the spiritual highlight of your life. It is the reason why I never drifted off into agnosticism.

 

[Mystic]

ONE OF MANY EXPERIRENCES OF 'THE WORD OF KNOWLEDGE (See12:8):

This experience of "the word of knowledge" happened when I was a Theology professor at a Catholic university in New York state. I had just finished my 4-course teaching load and was exhausted. So I began to think about a much needed vacation. But that Friday night I became obsessed with the thought that someone was about to die and that death would affect my life and change my plans. I tried hard to put this depressing thought out of my mind, but the more I tried, the stronger it got! By Saturday I began to fear that someone in my immediate family would die. On Monday morning I decided to ignore this premonition by going out for breakfast to contemplate my vacation plans. But as I walked to my front door, an inner voice shouted, "Sit down! You are about to hear about the death!"

The moment I sat down, the phone rang and it was Dr. Whelan, the chair of our summer graduate theology program. She told me that visiting Professor Corcoran had failed to show up for his summer class on Pauline Theology. Thinking he had slept in, someone knocked on his campus apartment door, but there was no answer. Alarmed, they opened the door and found him in bed, having died from diabetic shock! Dr. Whelan said the grad students were waiting in the lecture hall and that I was the only one around trained to teach that course with no notice. Would I teach it? I complied because the Lord had been preparing my heart for this news all weekend and I was richly blessed by my contact with those grad students.

I have had many such experiences of "the word of knowledge." A skeptic might ask, 'Yeah, but what about all the times your premonitions proved in error?"
The answer is that my many premonitions have NEVER been wrong!

 

[paradox3]

The cynic in me must point out that the spiritual experience described above (post 391) took place after @Mystic walked seven miles, was hungry ("famished") & did not eat. Additionally it was in a church camp atmosphere which could have been highly suggestive. And away from his family, most likely.

This doesn't necessarily negate the spiritual experience. Indigenous peoples often endured hardships as initiation rites and for the purpose of inducing spiritual experiences.

The context of this story needs to be considered. That's all I'm saying.

 

[unsafe]

I believe the gift of discernment is a very important gift to have ----

It is very important for people to know God's word well -----so you know when you're being deceived and when you're are hearing God's truth -----

Discerning what Spirit is around you personally and in your house is also important ------

AI

"Discerning spirits around you" means using your intuition or spiritual awareness to identify the presence of non-physical entities, like angels, guides, or negative energies, that might be influencing your life or the environment around you


Discernment in prophecy
AI

Prophetic discernment is the process of interpreting a revelation from God and understanding what it means. It's a vital part of the prophetic process, and it involves asking God for clarity

Born Again people are to test every Spirit and this Gift of Discernment helps us to do that



Some examples are ==People saying the Holy Spirit just lands on all people and so they are saved ====
People saying that God's love will save them -----

People saying Mary Magdalene ---was a prostitute

People saying there we 3 Wise men that visited Jesus

People saying the laws are still in effect for all people ---etc

Many believe what they are told -----discernment helps in these areas

 

[Mystic]

The cynic in me must point out that the spiritual experience described above (post 391) took place after @Mystic walked seven miles, was hungry ("famished") & did not eat. Additionally it was in a church camp atmosphere which could have been highly suggestive. And away from his family, most likely.

And the cynic in me infers that your closed-minded response betrays an impoverished inner spiritual life with no awareness of the many biblicak precedents for the spiritually powerful effects of fasting.

"BIBLICAL FASTING FOR SPIRITUAL BREAKTHROUGHS: 9 EXAMPLES:

https://samaritanministries.org/blog/fasting-for-spiritual-breakthrough-a-guide-to-nine-biblical-fasts

 

[Mystic]

MY FAVORITE COMMENT FROM MY MOTHER: REV. HART'S COMBINATION OF "THE WORD OF KNOWLEDGE AND THE G IFT OF HEALING

No church in Winnipeg would host Rev. Hart. That forced him to hold his meetings in Lighthouse Mission, a place of worship that homeless men and alcoholics had to attend to get a free meal across the street. At age 16 I preached my first sermon there. I was inspired by the huge crowd of about 200 men. But God has a sense of humor. What they didn't tell me is that the men were required to stay only for the songs and prayers to get their meal. They could skip the sermon! So I included a rousing song service and prayed. But as I got up to read my text and preach, all but about 10 men walked out. I was crushed!

When my parents and younger brother attended Rev. Hart's meeting there years later, I (age 23) was now a student at Princeton Seminary in New Jersey. After preaching, Rev. Hart began using "the word of knowledge" to minister healing. He picked my mother out of the crowd and said, "Sister, you are suffering from calcium deposits in your shoulder." This was true. He then said, "The Lord has healed your calcium deposits and removed your pain!" This proved to be correct! Then he picked my brother out of the crowd and said, "Son, you have a kidney problem." My brother was in med school at the time and was about to deny this when Rev. Hart added, "The symptom of your problem is a stabling pain in the small of your back!" This was true. Then he added, "The Lord has just healed you!" My brother's back pain instantly vanished!

Then Rev. Hart said something fascinating that I still ponder decades later: "This is my last meeting. I have to spend so many hours in prayer to keep my gift active, but those prayer vigils take too much out of me; so I need to discontinue them." This comment raised several questions for me: Could I exercise my "word of knowledge" gift in combination with healing, if I spent hours a day in prayer? Rev. Hart's ministry seemed more impressive than that of big-name faith healers whose meetings I attended. Was his greater effectiveness due to his long prayer vigils, vigils these other healers were unwilling to undertake? Why didn't Rev. Hart receive invitations from local larger Pentecostal churches? Why didn't his effectiveness give him a widespread reputation that drew large crowed like the big-name faith healers? In my experience, the most impressive supernatural manifestations I have witnessed have happened in the least impressive venues.
My mother told me about our family's encounter with Rev. Hart when I came home to Canada for Christmas. But she added a detail that made me feel very uneasy. After Rev. Hart's meeting, she followed him to his car. He turned and said to her: "You're worried about your son back in the USA, aren't you? You think he's getting too liberal!" I gulped as I feared what my Mom would say next! Rev. Hart paused as if listening for the Holy Spirit's word about me. Then he smiled and said, "Well, he's not; he'll be OK; so don't worry about him." I breathed a sigh of relief! But later during my Christmas visit, I said something insignificant that prompted Mom to say, "See, I told you that you were getting too liberal!" I replied, "But Mom, you just received a prophetic word from Rev. Hart that I was not too liberal and that I was OK!" An impish look crossed Mom's face as if I had nailed her. Her following comment is so dear to me that I highlighted it at her funeral over which I presided about 6 years ago. She smiled and snapped back, "Oh, what does he know?" I have shared my own experiences with the word of knowledge on this thread , but Rev. Hart's gift is the most impressive I've ever encountered. He had never met me or any of my family.

 

[paradox3]

And the cynic in me infers that your closed-minded response betrays an impoverished inner spiritual life with no awareness of the many biblicak precedents for the spiritually powerful effects of fasting.

"BIBLICAL FASTING FOR SPIRITUAL BREAKTHROUGHS: 9 EXAMPLES:

https://samaritanministries.org/blog/fasting-for-spiritual-breakthrough-a-guide-to-nine-biblical-fasts

As the host of Snoopy's bible study, I have moderator privileges in this forum and will consider the best course of action.

You are free to disagree with me all you like Mystic. But your insults are unnecessary and unwelcome.

You are banned from this thread for a day while I think about it.

 

[paradox3]

I believe the gift of discernment is a very important gift to have ----

It is very important for people to know God's word well -----so you know when you're being deceived and when you're are hearing God's truth -----

The text talks about discernment of spirits. You are speaking more broadly here, right?

How do we discern if our discernment is correct? That's a problem I see with discernment.

Most of us would probably run it past others who share our faith perspective, I think.

 

[unsafe]

The text talks about discernment of spirits. You are speaking more broadly here, right?

there is Discernment of God's word ==discerning what is Truth and what is Error and you get that discernment through prayer asking the Holy Spirit to help you to get the truth from the scripture ----

For instance --Jesus said ------it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than is it for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God ------

what is the truth behind the words of this scripture ---discernment is needed by the Holy Spirit to get the true meaning of what is being said here ------

Some have said --- a rich man can't get into heaven ----and I have heard this said

Some have said the the eye of the needle is a gate in Jerusalem ---I have heard this said

Some had said that in order for the camel to get through this narrow gate the person has to unpack the camel from all the baggage it is carrying and then the camel can enter the narrow gate ------and I have heard this said

Question
So if your Minister told you that the 3 statements above are what this verse is saying would you believe that this is what this verse is saying ==your Minister is after all is suppose to know God and His word ----so you would most probably trust what you Minister is telling you ---would you not ?

but in actual fact this is not what this is saying at all -----so it is in Error ----it is a false interpretation -----discernment is needed -----

 

[paradox3]

there is Discernment of God's word ==discerning what is Truth and what is Error and you get that discernment through prayer asking the Holy Spirit to help you to get the truth from the scripture ----

Fair comment. We would generally pray before a Bible study group. It's a good idea for personal reading as well.

For instance --Jesus said ------it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than is it for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God ----

A puzzling story for sure.

--what is the truth behind the words of this scripture ---discernment is needed by the Holy Spirit to get the true meaning of what is being said here ------

Okay.

Some have said --- a rich man can't get into heaven ----and I have heard this said

Some have said the the eye of the needle is a gate in Jerusalem ---I have heard this said

Some had said that in order for the camel to get through this narrow gate the person has to unpack the camel from all the baggage it is carrying and then the camel can enter the narrow gate ------and I have heard this said

Of these three possible interpretations, I have heard the first two. Unpacking the camel's baggage is new to me.

I have also heard that Jesus might have been using humor or hyperbole here. Maybe both.

Question
So if your Minister told you that the 3 statements above are what this verse is saying would you believe that this is what this verse is saying ==your Minister is after all is suppose to know God and His word ----so you would most probably trust what you Minister is telling you ---would you not ?

I think I would assume she was offering me three possible interpretations if she used them all in a sermon or group discussion.

but in actual fact this is not what this is saying at all -----so it is in Error ----it is a false interpretation -----discernment is needed -----

In your view, what is the story saying?