Cheri DiNovo introduces legislation to ban Conversion Therapy for LGBTQ youth.

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Pr. Jae said:
The question then would be is taking kids to conversion therapy equivalent to beating them. Cheri would apparently answer yes. Many would disagree.
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From what I read, it is mental torture that does not work. More often than not, it is scarring.

Is there any conversion therapy that is based in science, and not religion? My understanding is there is not. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
RitaTG said:
That is exactly what would be allowed under this law Jae. A young person that attains the age of majority is an adult under the law and could choose to undergo Conversion Therapy. A young person that is still a minor could not be forced to undergo Conversion Therapy nor can they choose it until they do reach the age of majority.
For anyone ..... OHIP would no longer pay for Conversion Therapy ..... those wanting it would have to pay themselves.
I pay for my own therapy for trans issues. That is not covered by OHIP either ..... fair ball....
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I think the issue will be more comlicated.

We have seen judges uphold two children of 13 and 14 choose to stop chemo.

We have changed the age consent for sexual activity for kids. I actually forget whatt the age is now, but14 rings a bell.

Drive at 16, join the army at 18, drink and vote at 19, "adult" at 21. And i think 14 is the age when you can have automony for consent for surgery. Again , alot of these ages change a bit over time.

And the same people who support a parent taking their child out of chemo, under the idea of "don't tell me what to do with my own kid" are going to be against what they will perceive as government interferance.

I am surprised this was something covered under OHIP. And it is dangerous, discredite, cruel.

I hope it gets support. We shouldnot be condoning treatment that is cruel and demeaning
 
Pr. Jae said:
The question then would be is taking kids to conversion therapy equivalent to beating them. Cheri would apparently answer yes. Many would disagree.
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Abuse is abuse. Emotional or mental abuse is not a better form of abuse than is physical abuse.

Certainly suggesting to a child that they are especially sinful not because they are attracted to somebody but the wrong kind of somebody is abusive.

Likewise suggesting to a child that they are mentally ill simply because it isn't our idea of normal for boys or girls to think of themselves as being other is abusive.
 
chansen said:
From what I read, it is mental torture that does not work. More often than not, it is scarring.

Is there any conversion therapy that is based in science, and not religion? My understanding is there is not. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Chanson, I know who would support conversion therapy because they do not believe in the concept of sexuality or gender identity.
They don't make their call based on religion, but rather on their own "yuck" factor.

Now, is there anyone who has taken that to treatment...I don't know.
 
Childhood is so hard to get through with the adultery factor ... so many adults *ucking around with natural tendencies ...

Then didn't the infinite make allowances for such adulteration in the ten roués ? This developed a depression in from of the infinite space ... thus Einstein's Dimple in ethereal space ... a recess or the hint for off-setting print ... vast potential for distribution of thought ... but a name was needed to protect the innocent laws of learning ... they are a pain ...

For I have come not with the law ... but too illuminate what is hidden there as re-inforcement of weak powers --- Machiavelli!

It is said the powers of the day: noble, merchant and church castes were all Piscine Mad at Mac for illuminating the power of ignorance ... the Dark Prince Rises ... copied from a myth 2000 tears ago when ancient (classic) intelligence went up in smoke with torching of piles a word in books.

Can this happen today in a Western Jihad? Dis you know Jihad is a metaphor for process of struggle to know beta (second thought; hind-red, hermeneutic apocalypse)?
 
I hope this passes and really catches on. So far only 2 U.S. states have similar bans but a few more at least are working on it. It's a start.
 
Pr. Jae said:
RitaTG, I never knew that minors could be forced to go to conversion therapy. Who takes them - their parents? If so, don't parents have the right to make such choices for their kids. I find it problematic to be taking authority away from parents and giving it to government.
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Yes minors can and are forced into Conversion Therapy by their parents or legal guardians.
We need to stop parents from doing this because it has been proven to be so dangerous and destructive.
I too get very uncomfortable removing any such rights from parents but there are occasions like this one where it becomes very necessary to protect the child. The child's welfare comes first and the horror stories of those that have undergone such treatment makes it necessary for the government to step in and protect.
On a spiritual note ..... I feel that the churches should have recognized the terrible harm long ago and done something about discouraging this practice.
 
Pr. Jae said:
The question then would be is taking kids to conversion therapy equivalent to beating them. Cheri would apparently answer yes. Many would disagree.
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And many would be wrong .... the data out there clearly shows that....
 
Pontifex Geronimo 13 said:
The truth doesn't change if you ignore it.
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True. It doesn't.

Truth also doesn't change because you deny it.

Truth doesn't change because you can manipulate another to deny it either.

The only truth revealed by a willingness to 'beat' the truth out of another physically or emotionally is a commitment to darkness.
 
chansen said:
From what I read, it is mental torture that does not work. More often than not, it is scarring.

Is there any conversion therapy that is based in science, and not religion? My understanding is there is not. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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There is no scientific based conversion therapy. None ... zero....
CAMH (Canadian Addictions and Mental Health) has a youth conversion program under Dr. Kennith Zucker.
Independently apart from this bill there has been an investigation and audit of that program launched.
I am sure that once this is complete that the practice will be stopped there.
Because of that program and how backward things regarding trans persons is like there the Clark Institute (host site for CAMH) has become known as Jurassic Clark.
By the way .... this is the only place that can approve a person for OHIP funded Sex Reassignment Surgery (SRS)
We desperately need to get things changed and more up to date like the Sherbourne Centre
No .... nowhere is there any scientific based conversion therapy .... it does not pass the muster of peer review.
 
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Seems to me that the proposed law has 18 as the age to be used as the age a person could elect to undergo conversion therapy.
 
chansen said:
From what I read, it is mental torture that does not work. More often than not, it is scarring.

Is there any conversion therapy that is based in science, and not religion? My understanding is there is not. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

Pinga said:
Chanson, I know who would support conversion therapy because they do not believe in the concept of sexuality or gender identity.
They don't make their call based on religion, but rather on their own "yuck" factor.

Now, is there anyone who has taken that to treatment...I don't know.
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I agree there are lots of secular individuals who do not support homosexuality due to the "yuck factor". I, for example, do not support homosexual activity for myself. I have no interest in sword fighting. None. Difference is, I don't care if another man does.

What I am mostly saying above, is that no secular groups that I am aware of are promoting conversion therapy. All of this quackery, that I'm aware, is of the "pray away the gay" variety. Some non-religious people are against homosexuality, it's true. None are saying the FSM can turn people straight. You can't turn fusilli into penne.
 
RitaTG said:
Seems to me that the proposed law has 18 as the age to be used as the age a person could elect to undergo conversion therapy.
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Which is the age of consent for medical procedures in general, I believe. Parents are (or should be) out of the picture by that point though, alas, that is not always the case.
 
No. As we have seen two 11 year old were given court permission tto opt out of medical treatment.

Children were able to consent to medical treatment at 14 before. I dont recall hearing that had changed.

And if course places like plannned parenthood allowd children to get birth control without their parents consent. I did at 15

It could become the same issue we have talked about before in the case of the children taken from chemo.

What control do parents have over their children. I dont think its clear.

Children i believe , need to be financially supported until 16. But they can declare autonomy legally and live alone. They can then collect welfare while attending school.


I agree this abhorant process should be stopped. But deciding on removing parental responsibility will be a big issue. I think. Possibly because of future ramifications.

Particularily as this is treated by these parents as a mental health issue. And they get OHIP to cover "mental health "care.

If we prevent them from doing so until that child reaches an age, lets say 18 and then allow the now adult to go ahead if they choose.

What about the parents who want to force their child into treatment for say Bullemia. The child, who has a mentla health issue and thinks nothing is wrong, could get legal help to say you cant force me into mental health care.

Or the child who gets an unscrupulous doc who agrees to breast implants in a 13 year old. Parents try to stop it, child says you cant force me to particiapte or not to participate.


I agree with figuring out a way to protect kids. Just think there are alot of issues and potential for precedents


Just like out chemo cases. Not sure now how the government or any hospital will be able to force parents into agreeing to proven medical care against their will. The precedent has been set
 
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