Do Americans and Canadians Have Different Ideas on Racism?

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Well, pr., you won't find it in many history books. But Canada has legal slavery until about 1820 - only 40 years before the US civil war. New France had them from the start. They tried Indians for at time; but it was too easy for Indians to escape into the forests.
Besides, they died very young. So the French early switched to African slaves.

The difficulty with slaves was revealed at the time of the American revolution, as Empire Loyalists fled the US with their slaves, many going to Nova Scotia and then New Brunswick. The difficulty was that Canada at that time had no big cash crop to take advantage of slave labour. They were just a nuisance, so they were "freed", and dumped on those lands that nobody else wanted.

The same difficult had revealed itself in the former New France, with the result that there just wasn't much of a market for slaves.

But, with the slaves they did have, Canadians, like Americans, freely gave them the lash and other punishments, including being torn apart by horses. When slavery was abolished, it wasn't because of any Canadian enlightenment. It came because slavery was abolished throughout the empire.

Many ex-slaves and slaves who had fled the US fought for Canada in the war of 1812. Another, from Nova Scotia became an
early winner of the Victoria Cross. But Canada generally segregated them in this country. Nova Scotia is still the most racist province, by far, that I have seen in Canada. New Brunswick was notorious for its racism. (though I find it much improved, now.)
In Montreal, Most were forced to live in a miserable district now called "Little Burgundy". the only work the men could find was as railway porters, and low level factory workers. Women had it worse. They were restricted to being domestics or nightclub singers and dancers. (though Black customers were not permitted in white nightclubs. Sammy Davis Jr. as a child sang and danced at a Montreal club - but he would not have been admitted as a customer, and he was not permitted to sit with a white customer. That hasn't improved a whole lot.)

I did a film on this with NFB, though I'm damned if I can recall the name of it. So I met some of the girls. They were very observant Christians. But the choice was working for peanuts as a domestic, or making a living as a dancer. Another Black friend wanted to go to university but couldn't afford it unless he had an athletic scholarship. He was, in fact, an NHL prospect. But there was no chance the NHL would accept a Black, and he couldn't get a scholarship because most universities in Canada, including McGill, wouldn't accept them - and certainly not on the school hockey team. So he got a scholarship to a prestigious US university, got a law degree, became a major figure in Montreal,and president of the Quebec Liberal Party. His sister, about 1960, became the first Black teacher to be hired by the Montreal Protestant School Board.

In World War 1, they were not permitted to join the army (or, in those days, to go to any white hotel, restaurant, movie theatre, etc.) That still happens. Shortly before his death, Martin Luther King was denied a reservation at a New Brunswick resort.

Check any world war 2 photos of the Canadian Navy or Air Force. count the Black faces. You probably won't need even one finger. I'm not sure, but I think the Black Watch regiment still refuses to accept Blacks. Certainly, it did refuse them until recently.

But, no, you won't find much of this in Canadian history books.
 
Oh, Thomas Jefferson, the man who wrote into the US constitution that all people are created equal, had 175 slaves. In his will, he freed, I think, four of them. But that's because they were his sons.
 
Go to the site Information Clearing House. google will get it for you. this is a site that I don't always trust because it can be biased. (it takes news from around the world that doesn't make our news media.) However, I trust this report, partly because it comes through an Iraq news agency, partly because I spend most of every day scanning world news - and I've found a good deal of reliable information about US and Israeli links to ISIS. It wouldn't be anything unusual for either country. Israel special ops was working with the CIA and Guatemalan troops to murder hundreds of thousands of Guatemalan civilians, and it never even made our news media - even though there's an NFB film about it, based on the murder of a lay missionary who lies buried just a short drive from me.

This story is near the top of today's edition. (It usually changes by supper time, but you can still get it by scrolling down.)
Thank you for the information Graeme .... I will be taking a look and like you being careful of the reliability of the information.
 
Well, pr., you won't find it in many history books. But Canada has legal slavery until about 1820 - only 40 years before the US civil war. New France had them from the start. They tried Indians for at time; but it was too easy for Indians to escape into the forests.
Besides, they died very young. So the French early switched to African slaves.

The difficulty with slaves was revealed at the time of the American revolution, as Empire Loyalists fled the US with their slaves, many going to Nova Scotia and then New Brunswick. The difficulty was that Canada at that time had no big cash crop to take advantage of slave labour. They were just a nuisance, so they were "freed", and dumped on those lands that nobody else wanted.

The same difficult had revealed itself in the former New France, with the result that there just wasn't much of a market for slaves.

But, with the slaves they did have, Canadians, like Americans, freely gave them the lash and other punishments, including being torn apart by horses. When slavery was abolished, it wasn't because of any Canadian enlightenment. It came because slavery was abolished throughout the empire.

Many ex-slaves and slaves who had fled the US fought for Canada in the war of 1812. Another, from Nova Scotia became an
early winner of the Victoria Cross. But Canada generally segregated them in this country. Nova Scotia is still the most racist province, by far, that I have seen in Canada. New Brunswick was notorious for its racism. (though I find it much improved, now.)
In Montreal, Most were forced to live in a miserable district now called "Little Burgundy". the only work the men could find was as railway porters, and low level factory workers. Women had it worse. They were restricted to being domestics or nightclub singers and dancers. (though Black customers were not permitted in white nightclubs. Sammy Davis Jr. as a child sang and danced at a Montreal club - but he would not have been admitted as a customer, and he was not permitted to sit with a white customer. That hasn't improved a whole lot.)

I did a film on this with NFB, though I'm damned if I can recall the name of it. So I met some of the girls. They were very observant Christians. But the choice was working for peanuts as a domestic, or making a living as a dancer. Another Black friend wanted to go to university but couldn't afford it unless he had an athletic scholarship. He was, in fact, an NHL prospect. But there was no chance the NHL would accept a Black, and he couldn't get a scholarship because most universities in Canada, including McGill, wouldn't accept them - and certainly not on the school hockey team. So he got a scholarship to a prestigious US university, got a law degree, became a major figure in Montreal,and president of the Quebec Liberal Party. His sister, about 1960, became the first Black teacher to be hired by the Montreal Protestant School Board.

In World War 1, they were not permitted to join the army (or, in those days, to go to any white hotel, restaurant, movie theatre, etc.) That still happens. Shortly before his death, Martin Luther King was denied a reservation at a New Brunswick resort.

Check any world war 2 photos of the Canadian Navy or Air Force. count the Black faces. You probably won't need even one finger. I'm not sure, but I think the Black Watch regiment still refuses to accept Blacks. Certainly, it did refuse them until recently.

But, no, you won't find much of this in Canadian history books.
Thank you :) Graeme, and Inanna. I didn't know those things.
 
Thank you for the information Graeme .... I will be taking a look and like you being careful of the reliability of the information.
I have looked over the site and the information source and I do not have any faith in its credibility.
That is not to say that I am dismissing the notion that there is far more at play here than the public is allowed to know.
 
Well, It's an official Iraq news source. we tend not to credit anything foreign - though we trust North American news media that lie and distort constantly. As well, I've been reading reliable sources for months about American and Saudi complicity in creating ISIS.
Indeed, how could an army of over 30,000 appear out of nowhere with pay cheques, weapons and munitions. Who could h ave trained it - and it obviously is trained by professionals. We also know that the US and Saudi and the Emirates set up the Syrian rebellion - of which ISIS is an offshoot.

Why do you distrust the source? If I had said the source was the Washington Post, would you have distrusted it? You should have because old hands in the journalism world are very aware of the decline of western reporting. You might also have a look at a book called "The First Casualty". it's a highly regarded history of lying and omission in the western press about wars since the Boer War. And it include all the "best" news media. And My Lai was a prime example in that book. The story was eventually published, but only after a long, tough fight by a gutsy reporter.

Do you believe the story that the US led in the slaughter of hundreds of thousands in Guatemala in the 1970s? If not, google Kennedy New York Post Guatemala apology 1999. The NYT was the ONLY North American news medium that carried that story. And it dropped it after one day.

It's really not enough to say you have no faith in a source's credibility.
 
Well Graeme .... when the site has built up a credibility reputation then I tend to put more faith into the report.
As for North American news sites ...... no ..... I do not take what they say simply because they are a major name.
An official Iraq news source ...... not exactly known as an unbiased outsider either.
Bias and propaganda .... even in the internet age .....
I do agree with you that a well funded and trained army appeared seemingly out of nowhere.
And further to that ..... where is all the resupply coming from....
Here is a problem I have ..... who is supplying the weapons etc ..... and where is the money coming from?
Why is there no concerted effort to identify these things and close them off?
I have no faith in the source's credibility ..... there is nothing available to substantiate that faith...
Further .... I have very little faith in any American news sources because they have shown so much selective and biased reporting.
Sifting out what may be true and to what extent the information is tainted ..... hard work....
That is my viewpoint Graeme .... most news is thin ice at best .... I try and tread carefully and not trust too much.
 
It was always thus. But at some point, we have to make decisions. It's not enough to simply trust or distrust.
The Iraq source is on our side. How would it gain about lying about such a story? The Iraq government has issued no denial. It's on our side, too.
As it is, the official story is the that US goes to war only to defend the good and the helpless. It has never been the aggressor. It's enemies have always been evil. Read any american history book. It has been at war almost every year since 1775. And in very case, it was defending itself against brutal aggression from, say, Venezuela - or defending the Syrian people out of sheer kindness.

If so, It is the only country in human history that has done that.

It attacked Iraq because Iraq was behind 9/11, In fact, most of the attackers were Saudi. So was Bin Laden.
It defends the world against extreme Islam. The most extreme Islamic government in the world is its good friend, Saudi Arabia.
At some point, you have to make decisions.
 
I am under no illusion that the USA is the great white christian saviors of decency, democracy, or the helpless.
There is a dollar reason for what they do . The only places they intervene is where there is an economic or political interest to protect.
On the other hand we have the Iraq government. Once again not exactly a pillar of global society either. (neither is ours)
No .... I will not trust without 3rd party corroboration.
War requires 3 things as far as I can see.
1. money
2. industry (to make the weapons etc)
3. an agenda
So the questions can be framed as follows:
1. Where is the money coming from?
2. Where are the arms being produced?
3. What is the real agenda and who is driving it?
We never get the answers to these questions.
Instead our (global) gullible impressionable youth fight and die for the illusion of a noble cause.
I am looking for information I can trust ..... I need it....
 
So do I. And, oh, it's hard to find. It's particularly hard to figure out your question 3 -
What is the real agenda and who is driving it?
 
So do I. And, oh, it's hard to find. It's particularly hard to figure out your question 3 -
What is the real agenda and who is driving it?
That it is Graeme .... that it is....
But I will keep asking and looking....
The truth is a difficult and precious treasure to mine.
There is so much fools gold about....
 
What still shocks me in New Brunswick is the almost total ignorance of national and international affairs, and the utter indifference to public discussion. Montreal was quite different.
 

New Brunswick seemed feudal in its structures, though I lived there for only 6 years. All under the economic umbrella of a certain familial dynasty. Those loyal to the family name do well. Others are on their own. All this endorsed by the main religious factions occupying the province.

A good question: "What is the real agenda and who is driving it?"

My perspective is ancient. In his "Gorgias, Plato presents Socrates trying to discern whether it is worse to do wrong or to suffer wrong. He maintains that suffering wrong is to be preferred. His position is opposed vigorously by Polus and rigorously by Callicles. Callicles argues that it is by the unlimited and uninhibited exercise of power that any person may experience the fullness of human potential. We find this succinctly expressed in the "Leviathan" of Thomas Hobbes:

quote-i-put-for-the-general-inclination-of-all-mankind-a-perpetual-and-restless-desire-of-power-after-thomas-hobbes-85958.jpg


The movers and shakers of the age are addicted to the exercise of power, for good or for ill. Our reading of Tolkien has well illuminated the problem and its remedy.

To resist power with power, the perennial temptation, is to serve the increase of power.

George
 
It is feudal. And the addiction to power creates a sort of racism. In the British and French and Spanish empires, racism justified the power of the imperial nations. They had power because they were superior by colour or language or whatever else was handy. Churchill, typical of his time and place, was at least as racist as Hitler. In a place like New Brunswick where one family rules, the family justifies its power by having contempt for those who aren't rich. Their own birth in power indicates a superiority which justifies their abuses.
 
"In a previous incarnation, Harry saw himself as as centurion, Semper Cuni Linctus, driving the nails into the cross. "Look," he said to Jesus, "nothing personal. I'm only following orders." "So am I." Jesus said, "My Father's orders. Aren't we all?""

--robert shea & robert anton wilson, book four of the Illuminatus! trilogy (one of whose books is called 'Leviathan')
 
New Brunswick seemed feudal in its structures, though I lived there for only 6 years. All under the economic umbrella of a certain familial dynasty. Those loyal to the family name do well. Others are on their own. All this endorsed by the main religious factions occupying the province.

A good question: "What is the real agenda and who is driving it?"

My perspective is ancient. In his "Gorgias, Plato presents Socrates trying to discern whether it is worse to do wrong or to suffer wrong. He maintains that suffering wrong is to be preferred. His position is opposed vigorously by Polus and rigorously by Callicles. Callicles argues that it is by the unlimited and uninhibited exercise of power that any person may experience the fullness of human potential. We find this succinctly expressed in the "Leviathan" of Thomas Hobbes:

quote-i-put-for-the-general-inclination-of-all-mankind-a-perpetual-and-restless-desire-of-power-after-thomas-hobbes-85958.jpg


The movers and shakers of the age are addicted to the exercise of power, for good or for ill. Our reading of Tolkien has well illuminated the problem and its remedy.

To resist power with power, the perennial temptation, is to serve the increase of power.

George
The main religious factions being the Roman Catholics, and the United Church ⛪ of Canada.
 
Thus: "be still ... and know I am .. waiting patiently as a Shadow!"

Isn't that pain in the as is as something that will come to be when the stones get over the hump and learn from the discomfort of life? Tis a paen for many because of the industry put into war.

Feudalism in NB ... AYE ... even KC Irving said it in his biography "Citizen Irving" when asked what's the point of piles of money ... his answer was to make piles of power ... a' moni ... so be could make conflict with hos neighbours over who owns what! He is winning although dead ... and the land is approaching Runes ... just history in pure form with nothing else left!

Such is the dark baptism of humankind as they show there best use: fertilizer for shoving up sprouts ... some become trees more beautiful than Ayries po' ethics ... blew the minds of some writers ... the vision of the heights to be achieved after life ... and then to be turned into a cross ... leading to further regeneration of the love of hatred!

Creation had to put it somewhere ... into the beuty of the lyre as the song of pain was delightful to the war mongers ... the process is successful ... and the recipients didn't know --- ye gods of war ... Mar silly ans?

Slavery may be illegal Jae ... but autocrats still don't uncover their dark intents to the general public ... the general public would be confused by the fact that they thought these people knew the line consequences take ... and politicians ugly faced then get carved in a tree and thunder birds ... classic aboriginals knew this stuff but abided by god to the sense of silence ... and the industrial world would do themselves in!

I repeat the church patriarchy always said: "it is best if common folk don't know and the conspiracy of naïveté goes forward smoothly ... is that ignorant of me in the company of autocracy? It appears to be an autonomous nerve-anna!

Anybody listen to the CBC program on the merchants of deterrence ... when science is used to inform the public of things that aren't ... like smoking in bed is not the cause of fire ... bedding and bed clothes are ... causes bugs ... if such nonsense bothers yah! Powerful science put carcinogenic retardants in the bedclothes ... and weaker science became subtle ... it is best not to go against industry, city hall, or Ottawa ... old subtle axiom on how to cause the death of man to fulfill god's word ... delightfully possible if numbi-nous nature expands ... a glowing incidence of not knowing an alternate understanding of words in myth and metaphor ... an outstanding field in off-set print!

With considerable redaction is institutionalized stoic-Ness (dark void, thus it wasn't to be) nothing proceeds and thus idealism dais ... and that's IDe ...
 
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