Judas: Who Was At Fault here?

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All the gospels were written after the rift between the synagogues and the followers of the Way. That is an excellent idea.
 
paradox3 said:
Back to the BPoTW without consulting any of the parallel stories.

Have we (in the church) been overemphasizing the role of the Romans throughout the last several years?

The gospels, John in particular, can give rise to antisemitism as we know. So we have pushed back by focusing more on the Romans.

Yes, the Jewish leaders were in a tough spot and trying to survive amid Roman occupation. But the text is quite clear that the Jewish authorities wanted to get rid of Jesus.

Could the purpose of Judas be to emphasize that Jesus was betrayed by his own people?
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Or it could have been a plan to create discontent within the inner group. We see this today, when propaganda is " seeded" from other countries or even other political parties.
 
Waterfall said:
Or it could have been a plan to create discontent within the inner group. We see this today, when propaganda is " seeded" from other countries or even other political parties.
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Who do you think is doing the seeding and creating discontent within the inner group?
 
It could have been the chief priests and temple police, the groups who were 'greatly pleased' and paid him. This occasion may not have been the first time that group met with him. I have no real evidence for it, but I'm thinking that they wouldn't have handed over money to a total stranger.
 
Redbaron said:
It could have been the chief priests and temple police, the groups who were 'greatly pleased' and paid him. This occasion may not have been the first time that group met with him. I have no real evidence for it, but I'm thinking that they wouldn't have handed over money to a total stranger.
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To take this one step further. Maybe Jesus got word of this somehow which led him to predict he would be betrayed by one of the twelve.

Again, no evidence, but it seems like a possibility
 
...the temple police spy who let Jesus know about the duplicity of one of his own disciples... a double double cross... This would make a great Netflix series.
 
Judas was a "mole"? Cant really say for who, but Jesus was taken by Roman soldiers to the High Priests home, not a Roman facility. Any group that appears to take allegiance away from the majority, would probably be watched.
 
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Wow. When I mentioned the idea of Judas being a plant or infiltrator back at the beginning, I thought it was just my writer's brain in overdrive. Apparently, I am not the only one, though.

Redbaron said:
...the temple police spy who let Jesus know about the duplicity of one of his own disciples... a double double cross... This would make a great Netflix series.
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Oh, for sure. If John Le Carre was still alive, he'd be the perfect one to write it. Judas as a world-weary Zealot turned spy caught between his movement, the Jesus movement, and his shadowy contacts in the temple. :ROFLMAO:
 
It's not the first time they tried to arrest Jesus:
John 7:30; 8:59; 10:39
And in John 18:4-6, Jesus steps forward and asks who they seek and admits he is Jesus of Nazareth. This caused the guards to fall backwards.
 
Waterfall said:
It's not the first time they tried to arrest Jesus:
John 7:30; 8:59; 10:39
And in John 18:4-6, Jesus steps forward and asks who they seek and admits he is Jesus of Nazareth. This caused the guards to fall backwards.
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All to support John's high Christology, I imagine.
 
Waterfall said:
Possibly, but it also shows he doesnt require someone to point him out...he has stated it himself and has also run and hid.
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"Woo hoo! Hey, I am Jesus! Arrest me! Kill me! I don't care. Three days later, I'm baaaack!"

- The Gospel of John (Cleese)
 
Waterfall said:
Possibly, but it also shows he doesnt require someone to point him out...he has stated it himself and has also run and hid.
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These stories In John have Jesus evading the Jewish leaders. I think that it is the Roman soldiers who need to have Jesus identified for them.

Now why did the Jewish leaders fob the responsibility of pointing to Jesus off on Judas? They could have done it themselves.

Sometimes scripture tells us they are afraid of the people. Sometimes we learn that part of the crowd supports Jesus. They wanted someone else to do their dirty work I guess in a volatile situation
 
paradox3 said:
These stories In John have Jesus evading the Jewish leaders. I think that it is the Roman soldiers who need to have Jesus identified for them.

Now why did the Jewish leaders fob the responsibility of pointing to Jesus off on Judas? They could have done it themselves.

Sometimes scripture tells us they are afraid of the people. Sometimes we learn that part of the crowd supports Jesus. They wanted someone else to do their dirty work I guess in a volatile situation
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Well, Judas probably was guaranteed his life...like the paid witness he was.
He kills himself later...but did he? Doesnt really appear to have that much of a conscience.
 
Waterfall said:
Well, Judas probably was guaranteed his life...like the paid witness he was.
He kills himself later...but did he? Doesnt really appear to have that much of a conscience.
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Matthew has Judas hanging himself but the other gospels don't mention this.

In Acts Judas dies in a field with his guts rushing out. There's a connection to the thirty pieces of silver. I think they were used to buy a burial field.
 
Waterfall said:
And dont forget what Jesus said in Luke 19:27
Or about Judas in Mathew 26:24.
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Yes Jesus has Judas pegged as his betrayer. And others of his people want to get rid of him. It's not only the Jewish authorities.

I wonder if they might have felt Jesus was putting all of them at risk with the Romans.
 
Waterfall said:
Well, Judas probably was guaranteed his life...like the paid witness he was.
He kills himself later...but did he? Doesnt really appear to have that much of a conscience.
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Could a conscience haunt a person over the edge ... if one believed there was such things behind consequences?

So many powers believe that nothing follows well ... leaves room for imagination ad abstract.

Do you appreciate abstracts? If not ... why worry the insubstantial matter ...
 
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