Moses, Elijah, and Jesus! Oh My!

[Redbaron]

On the Sunday before Ash Wednesday (which, this year, would be Sunday, February 19) the lectionary reading from the Gospels centres around the Transfiguration of Jesus. This week, we invite you to think about this event, and what it might have to say.​

​

The Transfiguration​

17 Six days later, Jesus took with him Peter and James and his brother John and led them up a high mountain, by themselves. 2 And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became bright as light. 3 Suddenly there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him. 4 Then Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if you wish, I[a] will set up three tents here, one for you, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” 5 While he was still speaking, suddenly a bright cloud overshadowed them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, the Beloved;[b] with him I am well pleased; listen to him!” 6 When the disciples heard this, they fell to the ground and were overcome by fear. 7 But Jesus came and touched them, saying, “Get up and do not be afraid.” 8 And when they raised their eyes, they saw no one except Jesus himself alone.

9 As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus ordered them, “Tell no one about the vision until after the Son of Man has been raised from the dead.” 10 And the disciples asked him, “Why, then, do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?” 11 He replied, “Elijah is indeed coming and will restore all things, 12 but I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but they did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of Man is about to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them about John the Baptist.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 17:1-13 - New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition

The Transfiguration - Six days later, Jesus took with him Peter and James and his brother John and led them up a high mountain, by themselves. And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became bright as light. Suddenly there appeared to them Moses and...

www.biblegateway.com

Some points to ponder:

Why just Peter, James and John? Why not all of the disciples? What did this event show to them?

What about the connection between Moses, Elijah, and Jesus? Why were the two Hebrew notables involved along with Jesus?

What was it that made Peter desire to build shrines/ shelters/ dwellings, and stay there longer?

What is the connection between Elijah and John the Baptist?

Why were the disciples not to tell anyone about this, until after the raising from the dead? Why the veil of secrecy?

Other questions may arise as we read and think about the text before us. Please be respectful in tone and content, and avoid the use of any insulting or belittling language, as some has cropped up in previous weeks. Your cooperation in keeping this a safe and welcoming place is appreciated.

And GO...

 

[Luce NDs]

It is a sophisticated myth not intended for the simple and thus 3 disciples along with the 4th coming ... to generate fore horsemen ... apocalyptic ...

Much thought was lost in the race ... its just human to lose it! The divine so gathers ... as a deep diabolical energy ... internal flame?

Thereof we are consumed ... Gnostic blazes? Virtue of the unseen and ineffable ... not to be spoken of ... some say a profane crank! Doodlers ...

 

[Luce NDs]

Expect couch fights as the normal way of Roman fetes ...

Gotta love the corn ... chiral loosening's ... Gabriel's blast ... and then it was blown --- Louis Arm Strong ... raised by Yudians ... spoke Yiddish!

There are some strange things that one must learn and familiarize oneself even to the hated familiarity of ends!

Hades is self generated ... like Mediums in the arid lands ... damn those thoughts!

 

[Mendalla]

avoid the use of any insulting or belittling language, as some has cropped up in previous weeks

Since I moderate this forum, please call my attention to any concerns using a conversation. I am off Council so don't see reports. I am trying to be largely hands-off but do note this in my BPoTW 101 post, which speaks to Red's concern.

• Please respect other posters. The attitude here is that we are all qualified to have ideas, opinions, and beliefs about the Bible. Putting down someone for their thoughts, attacking others for their beliefs, and so on is not conducive to the kind of discussion we want here. You can, of course, ask questions about other's ideas but do it in a respectful manner, not in a way that belittles them.

 

[chansen]

The Transfiguration​

17 Six days later, Jesus took with him Peter and James and his brother John and led them up a high mountain, by themselves. 2 And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became bright as light.

Jesus - the original "glow up".

 

[Mendalla]

And on to the Transfiguration.

It is pretty clearly a mythological story, loaded with symbolism. The big one may be Jesus meeting Moses and Elijah, which shows his place in the continuity of Hebrew/Jewish prophets and leaders. That clearly seems oriented to selling to a Jewish audience. The building of the shrines seems to be an attempt to memorialize or raise a monument to that, something Jesus rejects later when he admonishes them to keep quiet about it. The beginning of an "inner circle" maybe? I imagine the Gnostics saw it that way. The identification of John the Baptist with Elijah is interesting, as is the suggestion that his execution, and Jesus' coming suffering, is a rejection of that connection. First thoughts.

 

[Redbaron]

As I recall, Elijah was taken up to heaven in a fiery chariot (thus providing the inspiration for a spiritual, 'Swing Low, Sweet Chariot'). So it would appear not to be connected with manner of death. Maybe something to do with, after having encountered God on the mountain, anointing Jehu and Elisha, (1 Kings 19) thus pointing the way into the future, as John pointed to Jesus?

 

[Luce NDs]

Never mention symbolism within the realms of the staunched ... no bleeding cores allowed ...

The season of tapping the sycamore approaches ... if only for the sapient!

 

[Luce NDs]

As I recall, Elijah was taken up to heaven in a fiery chariot (thus providing the inspiration for a spiritual, 'Swing Low, Sweet Chariot'). So it would appear not to be connected with manner of death. Maybe something to do with, after having encountered God on the mountain, anointing Jehu and Elisha, (1 Kings 19) thus pointing the way into the future, as John pointed to Jesus?

What the blazes ... is that forbidden ... such escapes ... amid the abstract? Absolute knots ... all in a shady lane ...

 

[Redbaron]

I do remember reading somewhere that some thought this might be a misplaced post- Resurrection appearance story, but cannot recall who may have suggested that.

 

[Luce NDs]

I do remember reading somewhere that some thought this might be a misplaced post- Resurrection appearance story, but cannot recall who may have suggested that.

Druid up in a draught ... given the high brewing matters ... right out 've it? Inclusive of CEO's, Governors, and other edifices of fixation ... I am supported by our Wednesday's at the PUB ... discussing all things (many discouraged in the temple, due to aversion to the very dirt of the earth ... subtleties)!

May lead to templar's isms ... hard matters! Up chi comes Medusa or the Kracken ... maybe a Wahl or other baffling thing on once mind ... then lost as a duos ... holy fusion according to Dr. John Dourley! Beasts on the shore ... there are words for such incidentals beached or broached ... pure po etry ... meant for obscurity oe even occult activity as the governing powers invade bed rooms of the world! Some don't even know what Alexis listens tu ... especially tu-tus as Catch 22! Seizure ... then it stops ... Bung approaches ...

How does one approach time other than with corn ... for there are the pious fixations ... corn frees a lot ... mais ae ... cropped?

 

[jimkenney12]

I made the comment about it might be a misplaced resurrection story. One element that supports this being a story is how would the disciples know who Elijah and Moses were?

The messianic beliefs included the expectation that Elijah would return before the Messiah to prepare a way for him. Since there were many followers of John still around who believed he was the Messiah, the followers of Jesus emphasized the role of John as preparing the way. Since Moses was the giver of the law, this story presents Jesus as the fulfillment of the law. The bit about the shelters could link this to Pentecost. It could also be a warning against building structures to contain or constrain the story.

MUch more that could be said.

 

[Redbaron]

My recollection about the misplaced story was from seminary days, (a few {ahem} years ago). A New Testament introduction, I think.

 

[Redbaron]

There is also the voice from heaven, resembling the voice heard at Jesus's baptism. Somehow serving as a re-affirmation or a confirmation?

 

[paradox3]

In Jewish custom, a place is set for Elijah at the Passover Seder and a door left open for him. This represents the hope that the messianic age will arrive soon.

Moses and Elijah appearing on the mountaintop represent the Law and the Prophets, no?

Jesus often needs to withdraw from his busy life for rest, reflection and prayer. Perhaps he took only his executive committee up the mountain because he didn't have the energy for all twelve of the disciples.

Peter seems to want to stay there. I have often heard that this story is a lesson about the call to return to regular life after a spiritual experience.

 

[paradox3]

This story takes place "six days later" in Matthew's narrative. Anyone think this could symbolize the six days God spent creating the world before taking a day off?

 

[Redbaron]

Could be. It seems to be six days after Peter's confession Jesus being the Messiah, and being corrected after trying to tell Jesus what the Messiah would or wouldn't do. Maybe as a way of affirming that Peter was still loved, even after being scolded like that?

 

[Luce NDs]

There is also the voice from heaven, resembling the voice heard at Jesus's baptism. Somehow serving as a re-affirmation or a confirmation?

If heaven is a state of mined ... would this come from within the head man ... where psyche was thought to reside?

Lordy rackets within the skull ... I suffered that from some pharmaceuticals ... but the medical people didn't receive it well!

I had suspicions due to former readings ... a spark ero se ,,,

 

[paradox3]

@Mendalla
Agreeing that this is a mythological story. But I wonder, did the Gospel writer think he was recounting a myth? Or had the story circulated long enough in the oral tradition that it was understood to be factual & historical?

I am starting to think the distinction might not even matter a great deal.

 

[Luce NDs]

@Mendalla
Agreeing that this is a mythological story. But I wonder, did the Gospel writer think he was recounting a myth? Or had the story circulated long enough in the oral tradition that it was understood to be factual & historical?

I am starting to think the distinction might not even matter a great deal.

Thus all messed up as Odin ... that entangled tree ... entanglement causes an issuing of shadows ... Jude rested under one ...