Moses, Elijah, and Jesus! Oh My!
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Redbaron
Pirate fan since the dark ages
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...except that the disciple's name was Simon, and Jesus GAVE him the nickname Peter, didn't he? Doesn't that fact undermine most of what you claimed in your post? Why would Jesus give him that nickname and then suddenly start talking about himself?
Redbaron
Pirate fan since the dark ages
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and as a point of info, Jesus would have called him by the Aramaic term 'Cephas', as Paul sometimes refers to him; thus the difference between Greek genders of a word has no bearing on the matter. Now, tell us what you think of the Transfiguration, which is the topic of this thread.
paradox3
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Since @Mystic hasn't returned to explain the significance of Mount Hermon, I looked it up. Seems it is believed to be the site of the burial of Abraham. Some scholars think it was also the site of the transfiguration.
Perhaps more symbolism tying Jesus to the important prophets from the Hebrew Scriptures?
Perhaps more symbolism tying Jesus to the important prophets from the Hebrew Scriptures?
unsafe
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Interesting read here on your Mount Hermon -----paradox3 ------from got Questions
Mount Hermon (or “sacred mountain”) is the highest mountain in ancient Israel, boasting majestic, snowcapped peaks rising just over 9,000 feet above the sea. Mount Hermon may have been the site of Jesus Christ’s transfiguration.
Known today by its Arabic name, Jabal el-Shaiykh, meaning “snowy mountain,” Mount Hermon’s three distinct peaks are covered with snow most of the year. In Bible times, Mount Hermon was also called Sirion by the Sidonians and Senir by the Amorites (Deuteronomy 3:9; Psalm 29:6). These two names mean “breastplate,” likely referring to the mountain’s rounded, snow-topped crests that gleam in the sunlight.
Visible from great distances, the mountain range is nearly 30 miles in length and about 15 miles wide. Mount Hermon is located at the northeastern boundary of Israel, on the border between Syria and Lebanon. Along with melting snow and the abundant rainfall on Mount Hermon, large springs at the base of the mountain form the main headwaters of the Jordan River.
Mount Hermon was significant in the Bible for a few reasons. Mount Hermon marked the northern limits of the Promised Land conquered by Joshua (Deuteronomy 3:8; Joshua 11:17; 12:1; 13:5). Mount Hermon also formed the northern boundary of the territory inherited by the half-tribe of Manasseh as well as the northern border of Israel in general (1 Chronicles 5:23).
Mount Hermon has always been considered a sacred mountain. Worshipers from the earliest of times were drawn to its isolated heights. Several ruins of ancient sanctuaries have been found on Mount Hermon’s peaks and slopes and at its base. Judges 3:3 calls the mountain Baal Hermon, meaning “Lord of Hermon” (see also 1 Chronicles 5:23). Some of the psalms praise Mount Hermon for its loftiness and majesty (Psalm 42:6; 89:11–12).
King David compared God’s people living together in unity to the dew of Mount Hermon falling on Mount Zion (Psalm 133:1–3). This illustration is fitting, since the slopes of Mount Hermon, in the north, receive profuse amounts of dew. Mount Zion, in the south, is much drier. David compared the refreshing dew of Hermon to the blessings of unity in Israel, from north to south. Harmony among God’s people is life-giving. Mount Hermon is also noted for its wildlife in the Bible (Song of Solomon 4:8).
Some scholars believe Mount Hermon was the site of Jesus’ transfiguration, a supernatural event in which Christ appeared in His true glory as the Son of God, revealing His identity as Messiah and fulfilling the law and the prophets (Matthew 17:1–8; see also 2 Peter 1:16–18). At the transfiguration, Peter, James, and John—the members of Jesus’ inner circle—were eyewitnesses to the Lord’s preexistent glory.
Both the accounts of Mathew and Mark specify that Jesus led Peter, James, and John up a “high mountain.” The traditional site for the Mount of Transfiguration is Mount Tabor. However, Matthew’s gospel places events leading up to the transfiguration in the district of Caesarea Philippi, making Mount Hermon the closer site. Also, in those days, the summit of Mount Tabor was inhabited and surrounded by a wall, according to the historian Josephus. On the other hand, Mount Hermon afforded privacy and seclusion “where they were all alone” (Mark 9:2).
What is the significance of Mount Hermon in the Bible? | GotQuestions.org
What is the significance of Mount Hermon in the Bible? What biblical events happened on or near Mt. Hermon?
www.gotquestions.org
Mount Hermon (or “sacred mountain”) is the highest mountain in ancient Israel, boasting majestic, snowcapped peaks rising just over 9,000 feet above the sea. Mount Hermon may have been the site of Jesus Christ’s transfiguration.
Known today by its Arabic name, Jabal el-Shaiykh, meaning “snowy mountain,” Mount Hermon’s three distinct peaks are covered with snow most of the year. In Bible times, Mount Hermon was also called Sirion by the Sidonians and Senir by the Amorites (Deuteronomy 3:9; Psalm 29:6). These two names mean “breastplate,” likely referring to the mountain’s rounded, snow-topped crests that gleam in the sunlight.
Visible from great distances, the mountain range is nearly 30 miles in length and about 15 miles wide. Mount Hermon is located at the northeastern boundary of Israel, on the border between Syria and Lebanon. Along with melting snow and the abundant rainfall on Mount Hermon, large springs at the base of the mountain form the main headwaters of the Jordan River.
Mount Hermon was significant in the Bible for a few reasons. Mount Hermon marked the northern limits of the Promised Land conquered by Joshua (Deuteronomy 3:8; Joshua 11:17; 12:1; 13:5). Mount Hermon also formed the northern boundary of the territory inherited by the half-tribe of Manasseh as well as the northern border of Israel in general (1 Chronicles 5:23).
Mount Hermon has always been considered a sacred mountain. Worshipers from the earliest of times were drawn to its isolated heights. Several ruins of ancient sanctuaries have been found on Mount Hermon’s peaks and slopes and at its base. Judges 3:3 calls the mountain Baal Hermon, meaning “Lord of Hermon” (see also 1 Chronicles 5:23). Some of the psalms praise Mount Hermon for its loftiness and majesty (Psalm 42:6; 89:11–12).
King David compared God’s people living together in unity to the dew of Mount Hermon falling on Mount Zion (Psalm 133:1–3). This illustration is fitting, since the slopes of Mount Hermon, in the north, receive profuse amounts of dew. Mount Zion, in the south, is much drier. David compared the refreshing dew of Hermon to the blessings of unity in Israel, from north to south. Harmony among God’s people is life-giving. Mount Hermon is also noted for its wildlife in the Bible (Song of Solomon 4:8).
Some scholars believe Mount Hermon was the site of Jesus’ transfiguration, a supernatural event in which Christ appeared in His true glory as the Son of God, revealing His identity as Messiah and fulfilling the law and the prophets (Matthew 17:1–8; see also 2 Peter 1:16–18). At the transfiguration, Peter, James, and John—the members of Jesus’ inner circle—were eyewitnesses to the Lord’s preexistent glory.
Both the accounts of Mathew and Mark specify that Jesus led Peter, James, and John up a “high mountain.” The traditional site for the Mount of Transfiguration is Mount Tabor. However, Matthew’s gospel places events leading up to the transfiguration in the district of Caesarea Philippi, making Mount Hermon the closer site. Also, in those days, the summit of Mount Tabor was inhabited and surrounded by a wall, according to the historian Josephus. On the other hand, Mount Hermon afforded privacy and seclusion “where they were all alone” (Mark 9:2).
THE SPIRITUALITY OF MOUNT HERMON: THE TRANSFIGURATION MOUNTAIN
The name "Hermon" means "a ban" or "consecrated" in many Semitic languages, indicating that special initiation or spiritual preparation is needed before any ascent to its holy heights. Is that why only Peter, James, and John were permitted to ascend? Were the other 9 afraid of the ban? There is an inscription in an ancient temple on top of Hermon which dates from the first to the 4th century. On behalf of "the Greatest and Holiest God," the inscription addresses all those "who had not taken the oath to stay away." Thus, the early church Father Eusebius reports that "Hermon is respected by nations as a sanctuary (Onomasticon 20.12)."
Psalm 133:3 identifies Mount Hermon as a unique place of blessing:
"It (the unity of believers) is like the dew of Hermon, which falls on the mountains of Zion. For there the Lord ordained His blessing, life forever."
What better sacred place could there be for the heavenly voice to bless Jesus with this acclamation, "This is my Son, the Beloved. Listen to Him!?"
So at Caesarea Philippi and the adjacent mountain, Jesus' messianic status is established first by man (Peter's solicited confession in response to Jesus' question, "Whom do you say that I am?"--Matthew 16:15)" and then by God (17:5).
And what better place for Moses and Elijah to show up than Mount Hermon where1 Enoch 6:6 says an assembly of angels once gathered?
The name "Hermon" means "a ban" or "consecrated" in many Semitic languages, indicating that special initiation or spiritual preparation is needed before any ascent to its holy heights. Is that why only Peter, James, and John were permitted to ascend? Were the other 9 afraid of the ban? There is an inscription in an ancient temple on top of Hermon which dates from the first to the 4th century. On behalf of "the Greatest and Holiest God," the inscription addresses all those "who had not taken the oath to stay away." Thus, the early church Father Eusebius reports that "Hermon is respected by nations as a sanctuary (Onomasticon 20.12)."
Psalm 133:3 identifies Mount Hermon as a unique place of blessing:
"It (the unity of believers) is like the dew of Hermon, which falls on the mountains of Zion. For there the Lord ordained His blessing, life forever."
What better sacred place could there be for the heavenly voice to bless Jesus with this acclamation, "This is my Son, the Beloved. Listen to Him!?"
So at Caesarea Philippi and the adjacent mountain, Jesus' messianic status is established first by man (Peter's solicited confession in response to Jesus' question, "Whom do you say that I am?"--Matthew 16:15)" and then by God (17:5).
And what better place for Moses and Elijah to show up than Mount Hermon where1 Enoch 6:6 says an assembly of angels once gathered?
What if Petra, petros means different things to different flocs ? Thus the oily sense of shaman ... as tarry and feathering ...
Very illusive meanings for light intellect for people that would sooner not know a large amount ... as something eternal in scope!
Thus the passing of wee chits (bits and nibbles)! Then there is the expression of some brutes for crappy stuff people learn ... personal biases! Thus knowledge and wisdom are like phoque ... sealed in a difficult place with surroundings of fatty acids ...
Imagine slick folk of mental process ... dislike agitates the emotivism? No balance of the alienated powers ...
Very illusive meanings for light intellect for people that would sooner not know a large amount ... as something eternal in scope!
Thus the passing of wee chits (bits and nibbles)! Then there is the expression of some brutes for crappy stuff people learn ... personal biases! Thus knowledge and wisdom are like phoque ... sealed in a difficult place with surroundings of fatty acids ...
Imagine slick folk of mental process ... dislike agitates the emotivism? No balance of the alienated powers ...
Hebron is south south-west of Jerusalem and Mount Hermon, together with Caesarea Philippi, is about 115 miles north-east of Jerusalem. The cave at Hebron is the traditional burial site of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and, for that reason, is one of the most sacred cities in both Judaism and Islam.
One of the most interesting questions about Jesus' travels is how far north did He minister?
We know Jesus went far north of Galilee into the region of Tyre and Sidon (Syria) near the Mediterranean. But Caesarea Philippi and Mount Hermon are 40 miles north of the Sea of Galilee near the Syrian border. The Gospels tell us that Jewish hostility caused Jesus to give up on His ministry to the Jews to seek out converts in Gentile territories and, to this end, He spent the latter part of His ministry in Greek territory among the Decapolis, 10 Greek cities, where He had His greatest ministry success. But the Gospels don't identify all these Greek cities He visited, raising the question, "Did Jesus evangelize as far north as Damascus, a Decapolis city hundreds of miles north of Palestine? We know that there was already a thriving Christian community of Christians in Damascus prior to Paul's conversion, but we aren't told who evangelized them. It is possible that Jesus and His disciples went even further north than Caesarea Philippi and ministered in Damascus. In the earliest stages of the Christian mission Paul and a gang of thugs were going up to Damascus to arrest Christian converts there, when this project was disrupted by Paul's blinding light encounter with Christ on the Damascus road.
Prooftexts for all this can be provided, if requested.
How far can de light go in a world driven by powers that would sooner keep a soul in some dark place ... due to the shame of comprehensive motions ... that get up and go? There it went and the edifice couldn't observe ... duo 've statutes? Always two side of the koine ... mostly incarnate as not how it appears! Such is powerful deceit ... and watch the great powers --- Lord Acton! (they may appear as stones ... gonads?) Them's the alternate new*tz ... like folly 'quo s ais it all went down!
There's just no word for a good intercourse ... and thus we dialogue about great unknown states ... best done when calve 'n while it is still in the hole ... the pain of learning about ongoing generation? Goode emote needs a rest ...
There's just no word for a good intercourse ... and thus we dialogue about great unknown states ... best done when calve 'n while it is still in the hole ... the pain of learning about ongoing generation? Goode emote needs a rest ...
paradox3
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If the story is a myth, as a few of us have suggested, where did it come from in the first place? It very neatly ties together the past, present and future for Jesus.
Did someone have a kernel of an idea for a mountain top experience which got related to others and embellished? So curious.
Did someone have a kernel of an idea for a mountain top experience which got related to others and embellished? So curious.
Myths fossilized ... as Ammonites? Hard-shells in the pool ...
If one transfigures ... is that to get right into the icon (semi-te pass)? May cause a mysterious stir ...
Many will not observe ... due to anti sentient visions ... insensitive to wisps ...
May lead to augur 'n the trees ... sick a mores? Thus ET ...
If one transfigures ... is that to get right into the icon (semi-te pass)? May cause a mysterious stir ...
Many will not observe ... due to anti sentient visions ... insensitive to wisps ...
May lead to augur 'n the trees ... sick a mores? Thus ET ...
jimkenney12
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I wonder if the post resurrection mountain top event was reworked to create the story of the transfiguration.
How would Peter, James, and John know the two men were Elijah and Moses?
How would Peter, James, and John know the two men were Elijah and Moses?
Altitude sickness and they passed out and had one of those alien experiences deficient of sentient!
Bucket case????? Airless cad ... yesterday's message was about saying yes or no ... leaving the medium sort of mean ... a bit thin because all all that's unknown! The great unknown is said to be worrisome ... a con cero ( maybe ceros)! There's always mores due to depths of time ... see post on tempor al izm ... M is a hump to get over ... cleave ????
One has its ups and downs and there the race is on ... quick; outa sight ... di peth?
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Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
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(Sorry, having a bad day which usually leads to bad jokes)
paradox3
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Introductions all around?Name tags?
It came from Peter's eyewitness memoirs as recorded by his missionary companion Mark, which John the Elder, "a disciple of Jesus" confirmed to Papias, first century Bishop of Hierapolis. Justin Martyr confirms that Mark originally circulated under the title "The Memoirs of Peter." In fact, I can make a case that Mark was indeed Peter's son, so that Mark might be called Dad's Memoirs.
In modern visionary experiences revelation is communicated telepathically in a self-authenticating way. Or we can recognize that Gospel accounts are generally synopses of extended events.
"
paradox3
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Many believers would agree with the explanation @Mystic has provided above.
Many would have questions as they do with all miracle stories.
Peter may well have had a profound experience on the mountain top and attempted to explain it to Mark.
Perhaps Mark sought to make the story understandable by having the historical figures appear in bodily form and later disappear.
Many would have questions as they do with all miracle stories.
Peter may well have had a profound experience on the mountain top and attempted to explain it to Mark.
Perhaps Mark sought to make the story understandable by having the historical figures appear in bodily form and later disappear.
In western New York I preached a sermon on the Transfiguration and ended it in an unintentional way: I declared, "Some of you will have your own mountain top experience this coming week!" These unplanned words just flowed involuntarily from my mouth like a message in tongues. Afterwards, I second-guessed myself, dreading the prospect of making a false prophecy. As it turned out, my prophecy was divinely inspired.
The next day a Kodak executive returned from mountain-climbing in Colorado. He excitedly told me he had found an impressive ring on a small mountain ledge that fit him perfectly. My worship chair, Bob, then shared with me that he found his mother's lost ring on his made bed, a ring that had been missing for 30 years! No natural explanation could account for a lost ring suddenly appearing on a blanket that had been used countless times to make his bed. All concerned saw these synchronistic experiences as reinforcing the providential nature of the discovery of the ring on the mountain ledge.
That sermon was separated a few weeks from another sermon on Jacob at Jabbok entitled "Finding God in Unexpected Places (Genesis 32:22-32)." At the end of that sermon I again found myself unexpectedly declaring, "In the upcoming week some of you will find God in an unexpected place!" Again, I would later learn that this prophetic message proved to be profoundly accurate. That same Sunday, the Cross family drove north towards Rochester, when they came to a crossroad and Pam (a dental hygienist) surprisingly said, "That crossroad might make for a pretty drive, "Let's turn and explore it for a few miles." When they arrived at a wilderness area, reminiscent of Jabbok in the Jacob story, their car stalled, stranding them in the middle of nowhere. Around the same time, the same Bob (as in the other testimony) was driving south from Rochester, when he reached that same crossroad and the thought popped into his mind, "That crossroad might be pretty. I think I'll turn left and explore it for a few miles." Here is the miraculous synchronicity: Bob's pick-up truck arrived at the Cross family's car shortly after their motor conked out! The Cross family were rescued and all ended happily with all "Finding God in Unexpected Places." Needless to say, both testimonies were a rich blessing to my IMC congregation.
In that same year, an even greater miracle was experienced by a construction baron from that UMC church, a miracle reminiscent of the return of Moses and Elijah on the Transfiguration Mount. I will share that testimony in my next planned post.