Moses, Elijah, and Jesus! Oh My!

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It's been interesting reading this, as I'll be preaching on the transfiguration this coming Sunday here in Oz.......
We no longer call them sermons at our church, but reflections. (Which suits me, as I can just "reflect" on how I understand this passage.)
Some in the congregation are traditional, and others are progressive - so it will be interesting to see how folks react. I've decided to confine myself to two themes -spiritual experiences and inner circles.
 
It's been interesting reading this, as I'll be preaching on the transfiguration this coming Sunday here in Oz.......
We no longer call them sermons at our church, but reflections. (Which suits me, as I can just "reflect" on how I understand this passage.)
Some in the congregation are traditional, and others are progressive - so it will be interesting to see how folks react. I've decided to confine myself to two themes -spiritual experiences and inner circles.

There are some that go one way, others that go the other ... and the rest won't even sense it ... thus departed omniscient matter ... strange enough? Insentient ... thus not touched by much ... touche?
 
We no longer call them sermons at our church, but reflections.
Ape like. I might just use this if I ever start doing services again (not likely since I am not likely returning to the UU fellowship given current reality).

I've decided to confine myself to two themes -spiritual experiences and inner circles.
Seems like good themes to draw out of this. Given your process outlook, I might know where the former could go (spiritual experiences as lures). Not sure about the latter.
 
Ape like. I might just use this if I ever start doing services again (not likely since I am not likely returning to the UU fellowship given current reality).


Seems like good themes to draw out of this. Given your process outlook, I might know where the former could go (spiritual experiences as lures). Not sure about the latter.
"Reflections" mean I'm giving my own interpretation of the passage -and understanding that others have their own interpretation. "Sermon" is too harsh for a follower of Process Theology......
I haven't used the lures idea, but suggest that it takes more than the initial spiritual experience to live out a Christian life.
 
suggest that it takes more than the initial spiritual experience to live out a Christian life.
I would hope everyone can agree with that, but you wonder with some people. Basically, they get baptized and are all "I give my life to Christ" and that's it. No other real change or action. While I would not say that baptism or conversion would automatically be a "transfiguration" per this story, it should be transformational on at least some level.
 
Those are two great themes. Will you look at the question of sharing spiritual experiences with others and/ or describing the mountain top afterwards?

It's lovely to see you again by the way.
Thank you , I'm feeling a bit nostalgic when hearing news of seeler. I always got a chuckle out of battling for the roofer's attentions with crazyheart and seeler.
My reflection on the actual mountain top experience may raise a few eyebrows.........
 
*waves happily at PilgrimsProgress*

Thank you , I'm feeling a bit nostalgic when hearing news of seeler. I always got a chuckle out of battling for the roofer's attentions with crazyheart and seeler.
My reflection on the actual mountain top experience may raise a few eyebrows.........

I'd love to hear it. We've been using "reflection" instead of sermon for quite a long time. Works better with the Rev's rather-more-dramatic-than-otherwise liturgy. She's the daughter of a minister and a drama teacher, and her "reflections" are just as likely to be a convo with someone in or out of the congregation (last Sunday it was a wonderful Gospel singer, who also did some teaching about various gospel music streams/traditions), or a skit
 
The third miraculous event (see post 60 for the first 2) after my Transfiguration sermon rivals the appearance of Moses and Elijah in its supernatural conformation of life after death. Leonard, a member of my UMC church in NY State, was a retired construction baron. He was anxious about the health problems of his brother and cousin. So I first visited his brother at the Veteran's hospital and then visited Leonard to discuss whether to visit his cousin across the road who was dying a lonely death of cancer and felt too depressed to receive visitors. Leonard was not home when I dropped by, but the contrast suddenly struck me between his grief over his brother and cousin's condition and his lack of grief over the recent loss of his son Jeff, Jeff's wife Karen, and their 2 children in a small plane crash. So I carefully mentioned to Leonard's wife Helen that Leonard seemed to be coping very well with that plane crash. Helen stunned me with her reply: "Oh, that's because his son's family visited him after their death. But Leonard doesn't like to talk about that." Curious, the next time I saw Leonard, I took the liberty of asking him about this post-mortem "visit" and this is the astounding experience he shared.

After the funeral, Leonard was about to drive Jeff's pick-up to town for supplies. As he approached the end of his long driveway, a figure arose from the ditch and approached Leonard's driver side. It was his son Jeff!! Jeff asked, "Hi, Dad, do you mind if I drive my old pick-up for old times' sake?" A shell-shocked Leonard agreed and Jeff drove down Route 40 towards Rochester. Jeff first assured his Dad that he, Karen, and their kids were OK and together on their post-mortem journey and then detailed where his investments were to help Leonard settle his estate. After a few miles, Jeff turned right down a less traveled highway a few miles until he came to a large clump of trees. There he wistfully turned to his Dad and said, "I'm sorry Dad, but I'm not permitted to drive any further." As I heard this, I wondered who was guided Jeff's "visit." Jeff got out of the truck, walked towards the clump of trees, and dematerialized. A dazed Leonard then drove the truck home.

Leonard said that Jeff's "visit" didn't help his grief much because in retrospect the experience seemed like a dream. The next day, Leonard's grief prompted him to go on a walk on the path through the woods behind his house. At one point, he was overwhelmed by tears and had to sit down on a log to compose himself. Just then, he heard a branch crack and he was approached by a young woman. It was his son's wife Karen!! She gently chided Leonard: "What are yu doing here? Didn't we tell you we were all OK and together? You get back in the house and comfort Mom!" Leonard told me this 2nd "visit" is what helped ease his grief over the loss of his son Jeff and his family.

Leonard was pained by the incredulous expression on my face and I felt badly because I had prodded him to share his "visit." I apologized, saying, "I'm sorry Leonard; I believe you, but I just need some time to process the miraculous encounter you just just shared. Have you shared this experience with your 2 daughters?" He said, "No, because I'm afraid they'd think I'm crazy." I soon took a pastorate in Buffalo, and eventually heard of Leonard's passing. I was told that his daughter shared this experience at his memorial service. I was glad that Leonard took my advice and shared this experience with her.
 
*waves happily at PilgrimsProgress*



I'd love to hear it. We've been using "reflection" instead of sermon for quite a long time. Works better with the Rev's rather-more-dramatic-than-otherwise liturgy. She's the daughter of a minister and a drama teacher, and her "reflections" are just as likely to be a convo with someone in or out of the congregation (last Sunday it was a wonderful Gospel singer, who also did some teaching about various gospel music streams/traditions), or a skit
Send me your email address in Facebook messenger -and I'll email it as an attachment. (But after Sunday, I'm just a wee bit superstitious!)
 
In Mark and Matthew the Transfiguration near Caesarea Philippi makes a major transition in Jesus' relationship with His disciples. Prior to this, Jesus has explicitly revealed neither His true identity nor His mission of atoning death to His disciples. So finally, at Caesarea Philippi He is ready to pose the big questions, "Who do people say that I am?" and "Who do you say that I am?" Answers vary, but notice that only Peter has the right answer: "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God (Matthew 16:13)." Now notice Jesus' initial response to Peter's recognition: "Blessed are you, Simon, son of Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you..." Translation: I never told you that. "...but my Father in Heaven." Translation: You were divinely inspired to discern my true identity.

Then Jesus insists that they not disclose His messiahship to anyone. Why? Probably for the same reason He had never previously told them He was the Messiah and didn't explain His parables to outsiders (Mark 4:34): Jesus believed that spirituality is better caught than explicitly taught.
Peter's confession prompts Jesus' to take the next step. He explains that His messianic mission will climax with His death and resurrection (Matthew 16:21). Peter construes this death wish as an admission of inevitable failure and rebukes Jesus, who in turn rebukes Peter's misunderstanding. (16:22-23), What is needed now is an objective confirmation of Jesus' status as the Messiah to complement Peter's tenuous subjective discernment. that confirmation is provided by the heavenly voice on the Transfiguration Mount in the presence of a transfigured Jesus and Moses and Elijah. Thus, Peter's confession and this heavenly voice are inseparable parts of Jesus' unfolding revelation of His identity and mission.
 



Some points to ponder:

Why just Peter, James and John? Why not all of the disciples? What did this event show to them?

What about the connection between Moses, Elijah, and Jesus? Why were the two Hebrew notables involved along with Jesus?
In Hebrew the Shekinah glory refers to the feminine divine presence of God...or literally means in Hebrew, "dwelling" or "one who dwells".
Examples in the Bible can be found in 1 Kings 19:11-13, Elijah standing by the cave waiting for Gods approach. First came a wind then an earthquake, then fire and ultimately God came in the form of a quiet voice.
The Shekinah first visits Moses in Exodus 3 in the form of a burning bush.
At Mount Sinai God came in the form of a cloud over the mountain for six days. Moses took three that were named with him plus 70 others. He alone went up the mountain to receive the ten commandments and his face shone when he returned to the people below.
It seems such things are more reliable when witnessed by others.
In the New Testament, Jesus is the manifestation of the Shekinah Glory.
Does this mean he is God?
 
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In Hebrew the Shekinah glory refers to the feminine divine presence of God...or literally means in Hebrew, "dwelling" or "one who dwells".
Examples in the Bible can be found in 1 Kings 19:11-13, Elijah standing by the cave waiting for Gods approach. First came a wind then an earthquake, then fire and ultimately God came in the form of a quiet voice.
The Hebrew usually translated "quiet voice" or "small voice" literally means "a silence so intense you can hear it." Humans often crave an externak sign from God represented by the "earthquake," "wind," and "fire" experienced by Elijah. But God normally communicates by our listening to the silence of meditation. The thought is that, as our longing for God intensifies, God's presence increasingly merges with our mind, so that our thoughts can coincide and merge with God's thoughts, despite the fact that they are still our thoughts.
 
A question came up in our Bible Study yesterday (OK I was the one who asked it-- but it did come up!)
Is the transformation of the Transfiguration event Jesus being transformed or the way P,J & J see and understand Jesus being transformed?
We tend to focus on the shining of Jesus and assume that means he is being changed, but given the 'wholly human, wholly divine' nature of Jesus is that really so? Maybe suddenly the disciples started to see the divine side that they had been missing before?

I also pondered that maybe they could not have told anyone untl after Easter because it would not have made sense to anyone who had not had their eyes/soul similarly opened. I like to picture Peter coming down the mountain and the others, seeing that clearly something had happened to him asking what had happened. How can PEter answer that question?
 
We tend to focus on the shining of Jesus and assume that means he is being changed, but given the 'wholly human, wholly divine' nature of Jesus is that really so? Maybe suddenly the disciples started to see the divine side that they had been missing before?
Or there was a transformation, but it was more in the vein of his true self being revealed physically rather than him actually becoming something else. Interesting idea. The event being more of a transformation of how the followers see him does put a different gloss on the whole thing.
 
A question came up in our Bible Study yesterday (OK I was the one who asked it-- but it did come up!)
Is the transformation of the Transfiguration event Jesus being transformed or the way P,J & J see and understand Jesus being transformed?
We tend to focus on the shining of Jesus and assume that means he is being changed, but given the 'wholly human, wholly divine' nature of Jesus is that really so? Maybe suddenly the disciples started to see the divine side that they had been missing before?
A good question, especially if it was a bright sunny day. When I was "Spirit baptized" at age 16 and spoke in tongues at a Pentecostal amphitheater by Pelikan Lake Manitoba, my skepticism was overpowered by what seemed like a breeze off the lake followed by engulfment by wave after wave of liquid love, each wave more intense than the last until I feared my puny ego would be absorbed in God mind. Some spectators gathered in awe to observe my high ecstasy. Afterwards, I asked one spectator why she was starinat me and she replied. "Don't you know? Your face was glowing in the darkening amphitheater!" Gord. your question now prompts me to ask, "Was my face really glowing with the Shekinah glory of God? Or did she share the blessing I was experiencing and perceive that my face was glowing as a result of the spread of the anointing to her?" A Lutheran pastor present later told me he didn't believe in speaking in tongues and was just present as an interested observer. In that ecstatic state I just gently touched him on the forehead and he exploded in other tongues!
 
Just watched the movie The Judge on Netflix last night. It is an older movie but worth watching.

Anyway there is a line in it that reminded me of the moment when God says, "This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased."

Made me think of this passage and our discussion here.
 
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