Euthanasia in Canada, Supreme Court Ruled this Morning

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No one was polled in making this decision - that's not how the Supreme Court works.

There will likely be polls done to gauge public opinion if they decide to draft a law (although more likely by political parties or organizations than actual policy makers). It's actually really difficult (I have worked in polling) to control for things like PWD in a general poll. It may be a question that gets asked but to say that you have to ask X number of people who have a disability augments the price of the poll to being too expensive to be done. You also have to figure out how to define disability. It's not something you can access through census data or other data that is reliably collected.

That said I would imagine that focus groups or townhall or other consultations will be done to ask everyone what they think and those can be targetted. If you feel that a certain group is unrepresented - get your voice heard and ask for consultation for that specific group - include that suggestion in the letter to your MP and MPP/MLA.
 
I have worked in polling, too. If there were some sort of appointed Disability Rights Commission - as we're supposed to have as signatories to the UN Conventiin on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, instead of (what might be seen as ) a hodge podge of special interest groups, that studied the implications of such a decision on PWDs through lengthy research, I don't believe the word disability could even be included let alone made a reason for asking for assisted suicide. It's unconsitutional.

Public opinion had a lot of sway in getting this issue back before the Supreme Court.
 
Kimmio said:
- Disability is defined by the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities and by WHO as an impairment up against disabling social, economic, and environmental barriers that are systemic. It is not simply impairment alone. Which is what this ruling does, is it equates it with illness and disease and neglects to recognize it as an a term applying to a protected group. And by doing that dismisses the social and environmental barriers that are part of the hardship and discrimination PWDs face apart from their impairments.

-the ruling itself is then a systemic barrier

- PWDs are equals before the law and have an equal right to legal representation and due political process in the decisions that affect them. The wording of this ruling negates that. Also, popular opinion over-rode the necessity of hearing PWDs on the whole as a distinct opinion on this issue (there were no polls done by the pollsters specifically with PWDs - everyone who is a PWD has a permanent impairment and is implicated in this decision).

-mental suffering is in itself an impairment, and when up against social and systemic barriers like poverty and poor access to services, a disability that is exacerbated by the barriers.

-PWDs rights groups fear that by accepting disability (as per the wording of the ruling) as a reason to die, PWDs will be seen as of less value when living - which was a systemic attitude they only recently overcame, as the lives of PWDs have always been seen as being of less value. PWDs are no strangers to discrimination and deadly systemic abuse and this ruling leaves them open to it again.
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Okay how would you like to see it worded? Should disability not get mentioned at all IYO?
 
Justme said:
@revjohn that was beautifully written. I was captivated and moved. thank you.
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Thank you.

Ministry has been a mixed bag of experiences. Many things that I wish I never had to be present for, tragedies which broke hearts (including mine) which I was now expected not only to navigate but also lead many parties through to some safer other side. Experiences and moments I have been privileged to be a part of but would wish on no one.

Death and dying, grief and grieving are turbulent waters with no easy path through. At best one leans bow into wave and hopes not to be swamped.
 
Mendalla said:
Not sure if I told the story of Dad's death over in Room for All or not.

Basically, he was going rapidly downhill so we had arranged to meet at the nursing home to grill the doc about his condition and why he had deteriorated so rapidly. I was late for the meeting (401 traffic) but everyone was still there (my stepmother, my brothers, 1 brother's spouse) so we talked and visited with him, as much you could with someone who was basically comatose. Then stepmom wanted to go home for something and I wanted to get back to London so I offered to drive her (she gave up her license years ago due to eye problems). Dropped her off, headed to the power centre near her place for some lunch (there's a burger joint there where I took Dad once and quite like it). Just as I stopped and opened my car door, my brother called to let me know Dad had died after everyone but youngest brother left. Rather like he knew the meeting was over and it was time to go. So, called the boss and said I wouldn't be back, headed back to the home for a farewell, then to middle brother's place to start on the funeral plans.
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So many times I've seen someone dying, waiting for the last child to arrive and then dies.
 
Waterfall said:
Okay how would you like to see it worded? Should disability not get mentioned at all IYO?
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No, disability should not be mentioned - especially lumped in with illness and disease. If it should be mentioned at all it should be mentioned as pertaining to a distinct protected group. Irremediable is also sketchy. Terminal or equivalent thereof as determined by scrupulous process so as to avoid abuse or misinterpretation.
 
Kimmio said:
No, disability should not be mentioned - especially lumped in with illness and disease. If it should be mentioned at all it should be mentioned as pertaining to a distinct protected group. Irremediable is also sketchy. Terminal or equivalent thereof as determined by scrupulous process so as to avoid abuse or misinterpretation.
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I think that's reasonable.
 
Waterfall said:
I think that's reasonable.
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Except the decision was handed down so now we only have a year, within an election year, to ensure that the wording can be tightened up and corrected in the process of crafting the laws. I have some hope but not a whole lot of confidence that that can happen - especially if it is seen by the mainstream as a non-issue.
 
Kimmio said:
Except the decision was handed down so now we only have a year, within an election year, to ensure that the wording can be tightened up and corrected in the process of crafting the laws. I have some hope but not a whole lot of confidence that that can happen - especially if it is seen by the mainstream as a non-issue.
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Fortunately, it's not always the case that the majority rules or is right. This particular law will have to be accountable to more than one situation. Don't give up so easily, there are many times voices are heard, that need to be.
 
Thanks for that story John. We were there for my mother's death. We had been given notice that she would likely die that day, and we gathered around her. My brother and his family were in Nova Scotia and were flying in that day. We believe she waited until everyone was there. We also gave her our blessing and "permission" to die. She relaxed and died shortly after this. It was very powerful. My young nephews were being looked after by a neighbour. One of them had a weird experience at the time she died. We believed she stopped by to say good-bye. It was quite powerful (even if it was just a coincidence).
 
Waterfall said:
I think this is key, but we don't have all the answers for depression. The suicide rate for those who are in the position to help, (psychiatrists, psychologists, physicians etc..) is one of the highest for professionals. Hmmm.
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Yes, hmmm.

Being around depressed people all the time can be depressing; one tends to become like the company one keeps. Hearing so many good reasons for ending one's life prematurely could convince them that it is a good idea.

"For any noble spirit, it's either suicide or enlightenment," said a German poet.

The department head of the psychiatric department of university hospital of Kyoto, Japan, wrote a book about what he called the "Zen Sickness." In it he said that many depressed people hear that the path of Zen is a way out depression because of the enlightenment it offers. They pursue it, but become even more depressed when they don't attain enlightenment despite their best efforts, become suicidal over this and end up up on the psych ward.

I think depression is a symptom of excessive egocentricity. To get rid of it, one has to get rid of the ego. One can get rid of the ego by suicide, but a far better way to get rid of it is ascendancy to a higher form of consciousness, wherein one experiences and intellectually realizes that one's ultimate self is far greater than that miserable little ego one is(was) so obsessively preoccupied with.
 
Waterfall said:
Fortunately, it's not always the case that the majority rules or is right. This particular law will have to be accountable to more than one situation. Don't give up so easily, there are many times voices are heard, that need to be.
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And, more importantly, if you just give up and assume the worst, it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you want it on the table, then individuals and organizations that support your view need to start lobbying both politicos and the public now, long before either an election or a new bill arise.
 
Chansen said: "The latest was the sobering realization that a new bill might delay suicides, as people will be secure that it is an option that will exist even when they are not able to do it themselves."

Chansen, do you realize that you are agreeing with something I posted??? Ha ha
 
Sort of like talus eh SEELER ... something that just tags along as hermeneutic ... bits of the old man on the mound?

When concerning falling stones ... when breaking up ... one perspective is that they are uncountable ... thus requiring a far more profound accountant ... and thus the advocate! It's a tough job following the anarchy of mankind ... almost purely destructive ... thank god that everything's not perfect! Thus the crack in the air, Eire or aura that allows choqan things to get through to here from beyond! This could lead to concepts of big foot ... and the mark uncontrolled humanity has on the mortal earth when doing individually just as it pleases without concern (an, or a'nus) for the other wee chits! This provides a recess for the fertile material in mind to hang up in ... as sole called mental singularity? Could be everything or nothing depending on where you come from when hearing the vocation.

Funny thing when all is said and done ... all that's left is a pile a word ... sort of lyre standing in a heap ... if you don't understand fecundity, gravity and other powers unseen. It is an old axiom that one shouldn't get too close to the center tho' as you could get burned by heat and pressure developing in the fall or collapse of ethereal autonomous things ... paralleling words like manifest ... or things that appear as isn't ... isn't that deviate behaviour as hinted by Genesis 18:14. Then it is said that god is smarter than the heart ... so perhaps mortals are wrong about what is worshipped ... and some clue should be involved as the wee chits of god ... some do say once you find God there you'll find the advocate ... that others say is the devil ... or something they don't like to think about as purely privileged gods of the other kind!

Why is the bible writ this way? Because some limited authority felt privileged to take our given thoughts away? Now can a keen psyche as broad-based find away around such thorns? The Nordic's just decided to call it a Klein Bottle a twisted Jaered thing that's difficult to unwind! Some find this as a prick of consciousness ... and the observation thereof in OBI form is amusing to those looking in from outside ... and they generate unintelligible poe Tree to those that didn't wish to know initially ... but usually some foreign thing will get M started ...

Seems to me we should take religious script in as wide a specra of understanding as possible ... as what falls from it appears unending anarchy ...
 
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