I can't talk to this crowd, your hurtful and infuriating and disrespectful of PWD rights and have never been a supportive community to me. A couple of individuals have. But many of you have been snide and petty and ignorant and dismissive.
Euthanasia in Canada, Supreme Court Ruled this Morning
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Hermann
Well-Known Member
Yes, we can learn from the dying.
As my mother came close to her natural death, she gradually rid herself of a lifetime of pent-up anger and finally died a peaceful person. But a few years before, in one of her rages, she swallowed a bottle pills and cursed everyone who was involved with having her committed to hospital and revived. If doctor-assisted suicide had been available to her then, she probably would have opted for it. But when she lived out her natural life span, she learned the most valuable lesson of her life during the last few months and weeks of her life. And we learned a valuable lesson as well.
I think severely depressed people just want to end their depression, not their lives. And we should help them end their depression rather than ending their lives.
As my mother came close to her natural death, she gradually rid herself of a lifetime of pent-up anger and finally died a peaceful person. But a few years before, in one of her rages, she swallowed a bottle pills and cursed everyone who was involved with having her committed to hospital and revived. If doctor-assisted suicide had been available to her then, she probably would have opted for it. But when she lived out her natural life span, she learned the most valuable lesson of her life during the last few months and weeks of her life. And we learned a valuable lesson as well.
I think severely depressed people just want to end their depression, not their lives. And we should help them end their depression rather than ending their lives.
I think this is key, but we don't have all the answers for depression. The suicide rate for those who are in the position to help, (psychiatrists, psychologists, physicians etc..) is one of the highest for professionals. Hmmm.
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But Hermann ... we're borne here, life is rough (ruagh) and then you die ... since life is a rush why linger when you see the only way out ... The Great Escape for all gutt goads ... as perhaps the wholly thing is just cause moe logical delusion ... and clustered chaotic words said to be truth ... but perhaps something else as it says in Genesis God can get around all things ...
Can you imagine why S/heh/ID would wish to? Thus IT isn't and also the enigma of proving absence in devoid heart disease ... when there's a hole or agape there! This can drive up the sense of imagination, or abstraction a mental case ...
Ever get that sense you are not alone in your abstraction and absence ... like there's a spatial volume around you to store fully-thought out theories on incarnations ... or things that aren't ... what the church calls integral aint's or S(aint) as it isn't in carnate form! It was just a haunting thing that gives rise to non-existential beliefs ... particularly among realists that have gone anon ...
This may also give rise to foxy lasses that would put a chill down your nexus (spine) as untouchable image in a closed tomb! Some find such storied la shies terrifying and thus they don't read intuit!
This may also give rise to foxy lasses that would put a chill down your nexus (spine) as untouchable image in a closed tomb! Some find such storied la shies terrifying and thus they don't read intuit!
Which is why they should not be in a position to evaluate and assist a suicide of a depressed person! They are only human too and no model that they go by to determine what irremediable is, within their paradigm, is bigger than, and no medical opinion is worth more than a human life!
It isn't safe out here.
No. It's hurtful.
chansen
Had a point all along
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That's been your approach, and to that list I would add "misleading".
You feel threatened very easily. Most here simply disagree with you, then you jump all over them, then you act hurt that they reacted badly to you jumping all over them. It's a cycle that has repeated itself many times.
You do not speak for all disabled people. You do not speak for all depressed people. Many people within those populations also disagree with you.
There are good points against your position. The latest was the sobering realization that a new bill might delay suicides, as people will be secure that it is an option that will exist even when they are not able to do it themselves.
But you choose to be offended by good arguments. You're applying labels to people who simply do not agree. You are being extremely emotional.
Everything points to you needing to take a step back. This matter will not be settled on WC2.
As soon as I make a point people take an adversarial position. I can only be polite for so long, then I've had enough. I spent 7 years working in the disability community in various capacities trying to advance the rights and opportunities for PWDs specifically - those on the margins. So I know how this decision is hitting them, and me.
That's where my heart was until it got bled out by some of the same attitudes I see here. And I did take a step back in my career path but I still have a vested interest in the subject, due to personal experience.
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chansen
Had a point all along
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That happens when people disagree, yes.
I'm probably the only person here who doesn't care if you're polite. But you're getting yourself seriously worked up over people not agreeing with you, which makes your posts emotional and irrational, which makes people disagree with you, etc.
And you're not the only person with experience with disabilities, or working with people with disabilities. But you think your experiences trump everyone else's, and you will not hear of dissenting views. You've been the most dismissive person in this thread, by far.
A high volume of posts is not making your case any stronger. Your arguments are weakening as they become more based on emotion. There are people who want this option who can present emotional arguments as well. What we as a country need to do is sit down and hash out the details and controls. This will happen, and your outbursts on a relatively insignificant corner of cyberspace aren't helping you advance your views in this process. You're only hurting yourself.
I have seen that the palliative community has already said that they will have a voice and the CMA said that they would be consulted so I hope that they will be.
I didn't realize how scare palliative care is across the country. It doesn't seem that scarce in Ottawa-Gatineau and in the small community where my Mom lives the community has created a palliative care unit (It's two beds) in the community hospital. It was a lovely thing to have when my Dad was dying.
One of the things that have helped me on my mental health journey is an idea that my last psychologist advanced. I was free and encouraged to speak about my desire for suicide and why I wanted it. She suggested that I see it as a need to escape the psychological pain - that it was an understandable reaction to the amount of pain I was facing or remembered having or worried about having. It actually made it much easier to have the thoughts and less "prompting" to actually carry them out each time I had them (urge vs thought). There is a way to ask about it though - I don't really know how to explain it. When my DBT worker and psychologist ask me about it - I may be a bit evasive but can eventually talk about it but when I am taken to the hospital and it feels like I am being "accused" of it - it is much harder to talk about and actually strengthens the resolve to carry it out.
There is a certain segment of the population who tries to suicide quickly (knee-jerk reaction) - it was higher than I thought actually but I can't remember the amount. The other people plan (I was a planner - I would get my affairs in order, write letters, revise how I wanted my funeral to be, etc) and those are the people who I think could potentially be helped by being able to talk about this openly without judgement.
One my favourite quotes (by Brene Brown) is Empathy is shame's biggest enemy." For me, that makes a huge difference.
I didn't realize how scare palliative care is across the country. It doesn't seem that scarce in Ottawa-Gatineau and in the small community where my Mom lives the community has created a palliative care unit (It's two beds) in the community hospital. It was a lovely thing to have when my Dad was dying.
One of the things that have helped me on my mental health journey is an idea that my last psychologist advanced. I was free and encouraged to speak about my desire for suicide and why I wanted it. She suggested that I see it as a need to escape the psychological pain - that it was an understandable reaction to the amount of pain I was facing or remembered having or worried about having. It actually made it much easier to have the thoughts and less "prompting" to actually carry them out each time I had them (urge vs thought). There is a way to ask about it though - I don't really know how to explain it. When my DBT worker and psychologist ask me about it - I may be a bit evasive but can eventually talk about it but when I am taken to the hospital and it feels like I am being "accused" of it - it is much harder to talk about and actually strengthens the resolve to carry it out.
There is a certain segment of the population who tries to suicide quickly (knee-jerk reaction) - it was higher than I thought actually but I can't remember the amount. The other people plan (I was a planner - I would get my affairs in order, write letters, revise how I wanted my funeral to be, etc) and those are the people who I think could potentially be helped by being able to talk about this openly without judgement.
One my favourite quotes (by Brene Brown) is Empathy is shame's biggest enemy." For me, that makes a huge difference.
No but I am probably the only one who's had two positions as a poster kid for PWDs and employment - the irony - sent out to represent an organization. And perhaps the only one who's worked in street level advocacy specifically for PWDs - most of whom were poor and struggling. There are others who've worked in physical therapy of one sort or another. A totally different angle. So my work experienced as well as lived experience gives me a pretty well rounded view. As emotional as this discussion is for me.
Lastpointe
Well-Known Member
Kimmio, it is that sort of post that shows you think your opinion carries more weight than others
No one disputes you have knowledge.
You just seem to discount anyone who has a differing opinion
No one disputes you have knowledge.
You just seem to discount anyone who has a differing opinion
Any opinion, IMO, that goes against human rights for PWDs, is not a valid opinion, IMO.
Lastpointe
Well-Known Member
Well then i guess that shows how closed minded you are. Nit a great way to be
and not much point in discussing things
and not much point in discussing things
chansen
Had a point all along
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And I had a profoundly disabled child. And others who have tried to discuss with you had their own very meaningful experiences, only to be dismissed by you. This thread is a constant rotation of people trying to discuss this topic with you and leaving. If we didn't care, we'd just abandon you to your ideas.
If your goal is to advocate for those you know and have known, then you're failing at it, and making yourself sick in the process.
Northwind
Stationary nomad.
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Justme, thank you for sharing that perspective. It has been my experience and teaching that allowing people to talk about suicide reduces the risk they will actually commit suicide. If someone is talking about it, they want options and part of them wants to live. It is nice to hear validation of that view from your perspective.
Kimmio, disagreeing with you is not discounting you. You are choosing to be discounted. You do have some excellent knowledge and concerns. Your perspective carries as much weight as others. I will note that you have tried to educate me on addictions.......that tells me that you consider your opinion to be more valid.
As I am typing this, I read your post in response to Lastpointe. I just don't know what to say. It sounds like you are saying that disagreeing with you goes against human rights for PWD. Am I misunderstanding you?
Kimmio, disagreeing with you is not discounting you. You are choosing to be discounted. You do have some excellent knowledge and concerns. Your perspective carries as much weight as others. I will note that you have tried to educate me on addictions.......that tells me that you consider your opinion to be more valid.
As I am typing this, I read your post in response to Lastpointe. I just don't know what to say. It sounds like you are saying that disagreeing with you goes against human rights for PWD. Am I misunderstanding you?
chansen
Had a point all along
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You've never made the case the physician-assisted suicide "goes against human rights for PWDs." I don't agree with that basic premise, and I suggest most here do not, either.
...meaning, if people are going to skip over how disability was used in this ruling as though insignificant then how can I respect their opinion?