Euthanasia in Canada, Supreme Court Ruled this Morning

[Justme]

There are many in this world who may not be in physical pain but suffer with mental problems. I would venture to guess that most of the suicides in our society are the result of these mental disturbances. Those who see the world through the jaded lenses of psychological afflictions are also in need of curing. For these people a trust needs to be placed in our modern day psychologists, who will hopefully will show them the source of their subjective conditions. I also understand that many mental afflictions are the result of chemical imbalances, which hopefully can be treated with drugs or perhaps light and/or sound therapy (which are sciences that hold much promise today). Mediation is another form mental purification, though in todays western world I would be surprised to find a psychologist who would subscribe such a healing.

Actually a lot of psychologists prescribe meditation or mindfulness - my current one does and there is a mindfulness program at our local psych hospital but it is not well attended and it is not offered to mood inpatient consistently which is unfortunate. Even the private inpatient program I did made you do four sessions of mindfulness but most people didn't do a fifth. Part of it is that it's hard to convince people whose brains are either on fire or so depressed that they can't hook in. It almost has to be a mandatory thing and set up in a no-fail environment. I'm not sure many psychiatrists though would prescribe it (if one could even see one in most Canadian cities). It really does help and even though I know it, I have a hard time acessing - part of the trouble with mental illness.

 

[Justme]

@DaisyJane thank you for such an eloquent and first-hand response to the current debate. I really appreciate you taking the time to educate us all about your point of view.

I wish you well as you continue to care for your son.

 

[unsafe]

Hi Pr.Jae

Show me where I said anything but choice ---this is my quote ----- Just maybe all doctors need to be schooled on the Spiritual as well as the physical so they can suggest trying the other when one fails -----just saying -

To me this is giving the patient choice ----just pulling the plug on one's life without trying all options is not giving the person choice in my opinion -----just maybe the person only thinks they have no other choice ------after all on the other side in my Bible it says we will be judged by God Himself ----that includes all people there is no exception -----As far as you and me parting ways we are apart anyway in our thinking -----There are many religions out there and all have different thinking -----right now people strap bombs on themselves and blow themselves up to get to their paradise ---no one knows what awaits us on the other side --

I say give them choice to choose but let them know that what awaits them on the other side could be very unpleasant --- You --Me or anyone else posting here haven't Any Idea what awaits us on the other side of suicide or regular death -----we will only know when we die ------The Bible does tells us and for me that is enough -----what you or others think is your own --

 

[Neo]

Person A has CP with arthritis and intact cognitive ability, lives independently in an adapted housing with income allowance from family and a care aide once a week, weekly outings to go shopping, etc. Doesn't need to work for pay but enjoys volunteering at various things as much as she is able.

Person B has the same impairments, struggles to pay for his apartment in a run down area of town and buy groceries on his disability cheque. He finished a bachelor degree on a scholarship and now can't get a job in his field. Has been working with an employment agency for a year. The counsellors want him to consider being a Walmart greeter because they have a quick connection with the manager there - it pays minimum wage - but he's determined to be a teacher. He wants equality.

So, person A starts having more severe arthritis pain and spasms as she ages and loses pleasure in her activities. She can't stand it. She asks for assisted suicide.

Person B is getting discouraged because he can't get a job, feeling depressed and suicidal - unbenounced to them both their doctors were at the same assisted suicide workshop last week. He tells his doctor he's feeling suicidal.

Do you see the risks?

If person A or person B has the ability to live on their own and work, etc then neither of them would apply. It would never be an option. I'm pretty sure this legislation is intended for incapacitated people who can't manage anything for themselves. Nobody will be able to walk into a doctors office and simply ask to be put down. You are placing a wildly unrealistic spin on this debate.

 

[BetteTheRed]

Yes, the whole point of the Court challenge was to ascertain whether human rights were being violated when a person is not allowed to seek a "good death". And the answer was yes - this is a violation of a human right - that one cannot choose not to suffer.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

That's not true Neo. That hasn't been made clear. Already we have people stating severe depression should be considered. People who can walk into doctor's offices and ask.

 

[Waterfall]

Oregon and Washington have physician assisted suicides, so maybe we should take a look at their guidelines, as well as the Netherlands:

http://public.health.oregon.gov/Pro...onResearch/DeathwithDignityAct/Pages/ors.aspx

Here is a disturbing letter from an insurance company:

http://www.katu.com/news/26119539.html

American Nurses speak out:

https://www.lozierinstitute.org/american-nurses-association-opposes-assisted-suicide/

Something else to watch for?
https://www.lozierinstitute.org/ass...evidence-of-missed-evaluation-for-depression/

 

[Jaebius]

Hi Pr.Jae

Show me where I said anything but choice ---this is my quote ----- Just maybe all doctors need to be schooled on the Spiritual as well as the physical so they can suggest trying the other when one fails -----just saying -

To me this is giving the patient choice ----just pulling the plug on one's life without trying all options is not giving the person choice in my opinion -----just maybe the person only thinks they have no other choice ------after all on the other side in my Bible it says we will be judged by God Himself ----that includes all people there is no exception -----As far as you and me parting ways we are apart anyway in our thinking -----There are many religions out there and all have different thinking -----right now people strap bombs on themselves and blow themselves up to get to their paradise ---no one knows what awaits us on the other side --

I say give them choice to choose but let them know that what awaits them on the other side could be very unpleasant --- You --Me or anyone else posting here haven't Any Idea what awaits us on the other side of suicide or regular death -----we will only know when we die ------The Bible does tells us and for me that is enough -----what you or others think is your own --

So - if I understand you correctly - you want publically-funded hospitals to inject the fear of Hell into people. Did I get that right ?

 

[Neo]

That's not true Neo. That hasn't been made clear. Already we have people stating severe depression should be considered. People who can walk into doctor's offices and ask.

Well I guess they have the right to make that statement, but we should've have to deny the legitimate claims because of a fear of illegitimate ones.

 

[unsafe]

Hi Pr.Jae

Your right for yourself because that is your way of thinking ----We think different ----you see it your way ---I see it different ----Period ---

the Bible says this -----

Hosea 4:6King James Version (KJV)

6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

 

[Waterfall]

Hi Pr.Jae

Your right for yourself because that is your way of thinking ----We think different ----you see it your way ---I see it different ----Period ---

the Bible says this -----

Hosea 4:6King James Version (KJV)

6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

There are seven suicides in the Bible is there a passage that says God condemns them because they committed suicide?

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Well I guess they have the right to make that statement, but we should've have to deny the legitimate claims because of a fear of illegitimate ones.

So you think all the disability rights groups, with their research, and their lawyers, and their experience going to trials about abuse and exploitation and rights breaches of people with disabilities...gives their fears no credence?

 

[Neo]

So you think all the disability rights groups, with their research, and their lawyers, and their experience going to trials about abuse and exploitation and rights breaches of people with disabilities...gives their fears no credence?

I think I don't see the relevance with the subject at hand.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

I think I don't see the relevance with the subject at hand.

But they do...so it doesn't matter what they fear? Not going to try to understand why they feel that way - and have qualified research and opinion and experience to back it up?

 

[Neo]

But they do...so it doesn't matter what they fear? Not going to try to understand why they feel that way - and have qualified research and opinion and experience to back it up?

So the disability rights people are claiming that they are being ignored (?) or what? I don't see the relevancy with the "right to die with dignity" decision.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

They are concerned about this decision and have been keeping an eye in the issue for years for a reason. @Neo they don't want the right to die with dignity to overshadow the right to live as equals. And as someone said equal doesn't mean same-same when we are talking about the struggle for rights of already marginalized and often vulnerable people.

 

[DaisyJane]

Person A has CP with arthritis and intact cognitive ability, lives independently in an adapted housing with income allowance from family and a care aide once a week, weekly outings to go shopping, etc. Doesn't need to work for pay but enjoys volunteering at various things as much as she is able.

Person B has the same impairments, struggles to pay for his apartment in a run down area of town and buy groceries on his disability cheque. He finished a bachelor degree on a scholarship and now can't get a job in his field. Has been working with an employment agency for a year. The counsellors want him to consider being a Walmart greeter because they have a quick connection with the manager there - it pays minimum wage - but he's determined to be a teacher. He wants equality.

So, person A starts having more severe arthritis pain and spasms as she ages and loses pleasure in her activities. She can't stand it. She asks for assisted suicide.

Person B is getting discouraged because he can't get a job, feeling depressed and suicidal - unbenounced to them both their doctors were at the same assisted suicide workshop last week. He tells his doctor he's feeling suicidal.

Do you see the risks?

No. I do not see the risks. It is not reasonable to think that people will be able to walk off the street and ask for death. As people have pointed out, you, and some disability rights advocates, are making broad assumptions that will not apply, and serve to create a climate of fear and paranoia as opposed to a reasoned discussion about what this decision is, and is not.

While the details still need to be established, the courts have been fairly clear that this is for situations where intolerable suffering has been identified and the individual suffering has decided the situation is, and will remain, beyond what they can bear. It is my understanding that people asking for assisted suicide will need to establish that there is little or no hope for change/improvement, and there is little in the way of treatment available. Neither of your situations would apply in my understanding.

Similarly, I do not think the power to decide who can consent to assisted suicide and the situations leading to a "reasonable request" will remain in the hands of one GP or doctor. I would expect that a panel of individuals including physicians and ethicists would be involved in approving requests.

This is not open season on people with disabilities or mental illnesses. This is an attempt by our society to establish guidelines that minimize very severe suffering where this little hope.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

No. I do not see the risks. It is not reasonable to think that people will be able to walk off the street and ask for death. As people have pointed out, you, and some disability rights advocates, are making broad assumptions that will not apply, and serve to create a climate of fear and paranoia as opposed to a reasoned discussion about what this decision is, and is not.

While the details still need to be established, the courts have been fairly clear that this is for situations where intolerable suffering has been identified and the individual suffering has decided the situation is, and will remain, beyond what they can bear. It is my understanding that people asking for assisted suicide will need to establish that there is little or no hope for change/improvement, and there is little in the way of treatment available. Neither of your situations would apply in my understanding.

Similarly, I do not think the power to decide who can consent to assisted suicide and the situations leading to a "reasonable request" will remain in the hands of one GP or doctor. I would expect that a panel of individuals including physicians and ethicists would be involved in approving requests.

This is not open season on people with disabilities or mental illnesses. This is an attempt by our society to establish guidelines that minimize very severe suffering where this little hope.

Hope you are right and they are wrong. I'm not going to take that for granted given fairly recent history of systematic abuse and death of people with disabilities, the fact that disability issues don't even reach the average person's consciousness yet, ongoing discrimination, and the government's track record with pushing through legislation without enough public consultation. It's election campaign time. It'll either be rushed or ignored and then rushed, I think. Plus the old cut from the bottom philosophy.

 

[Jaebius]

Hi Pr.Jae

Your right for yourself because that is your way of thinking ----We think different ----you see it your way ---I see it different ----Period ---

the Bible says this -----

Hosea 4:6King James Version (KJV)

6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

So --- is that a yes?

 

[Seeler]

Kimmio, Rather than fight against competent but suffering people being allowed to choose to die with dignity (which you have already agreed is ok in some cases), why not put your energy into trying to ensure that proper safe-guards be put in place to prevent some of the scenarios that you fear?