12 killed in shooting at French satirical magazine

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Graeme Decarie said:
I invite Pr. jae and Mendalla to read BCF. It's some of the most vitriolic hate I have ever seen. (and it is not well-expressed. It's full of ignorance.) And, by all means, read the comments that readers post. Typically, they are very short, and amount to no more than a few words of pure venom. If that's your world, welcome to it.
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Made that mistake back when EasternOrthodox and Mely(?) were regulars on the old WC. Never again, my friend.
 
Graeme Decarie said:
Our news media breathe hatred every day. Muslims are genetically evil? Gee. How come we've only noticed it in the past few decades? You never can tell. Russians were good, then evil, then good, and now evil again. But the Christian British who conquered, looted, enslaved, brutalized one-fifth of the world were good. And Christian Americans who murdered millions in Vietnam and Iraq and Guatemala and Libya and Iraq and Afghanistan are good. You look at Bush. Now, there's a real man of God. If Jesus were here today, I bet he'd drawing cartoons of Muhammed.

There is only one reason the US is fighting in the middle east. Oil. But to make us angry enough to stop thinking, the billionaires who own the oil and most of the news media have to make us hate. That's why they use the word extremist to describe Muslims - but never us.

We really need to revise The Bible, you know, bring it up to date. For example, "Love thy neighbour - unless he has something you covet."

Meanwhile, just for laughs, the United Church should put out a weekly with cartoons of Jesus. It would be hilarious.
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Graeme, I believe I've only blogged about you twice. Since I put up 10-20 posts a day, that's not very often. Besides, you are a blogger yourself and thus why should you be off limits? There is nothing to stop you from responding on your own blog.

BCF closes the comments on all posts past a certain date. You are more than welcome to put up a guest post if you want to. Reply to this post if you're interested.

I am not responsible for the commenters. We do try to weed out the worst. And please do not tell me that we are unique in attracting weirdos. The Internet is full of them, from all political / religious viewpoints.

Most of my posts are simply summaries of news articles from sites like Reuters. Hate site? The news is hatred?
 
Graeme Decarie said:
Oh, it doesn't just bash Muslims. It also bashes me. some people send in comments. They are almost all one-liners that never directly answer any point. A typical comment might be, "what a stupid guy". (that's almost as true of the blogs, themselves - but, alas, they go on and on for line after line. Take a look at the comments. it's obvious that the site has an audience of bigots and louts. Oh - the first time I wrote to them (i've done it twice for items about me), they immediately closed that topic to further discussion. One of their more reasoned comments about something I wrote in my blog was "It boggles the mind". That was it. I commented that the writer obviously had a mind that was easily boggled. there's really nothing in the site but ignorance and hatred.
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Graeme, I forgot add the story of the commenter who couldn't bring himself to write anything negative about you, instead he said he'd found your an excellent teacher and had good memories.
 
Yes. The press does publish hatred. If you knew anything about the modern press (since the 1890s, you would know that. 12 people get shot in Paris - big news and anguish all over the western world 300,000 get slaughtered in Guatemala? Didn't make the news at all, not even Reuters. 25 years later, when Clinton publicly apologized for it, the only newspaper to print the story was the NYT - and it did it just once. That was it for 300,000 people. Muslims are terrorists. The western powers never are, even when they kill civilians by the millions.
The press routinely lies and uses loaded language.

Muslim 'extremists' behead people. - reports, anger, condemnation, revulsion.. Our good friends in Saudi Arabia behead people every day. But not a mention. They are, in fact, the leading beheaders in the world. (After France, which beheaded routinely until quite recently. American soldiers in Vietnam routinely cut the ears off dead victims as souvenirs. But not a word.)

It as also our side that developed and used the two most indiscriminate mass murder techniques in history - firebombing and nuclear bombs.
As to your commenters, if you weed out the worst, I shudder to think what they must be like. The best, the ones who make it onto your blog, are a rare bunch of bigots and haters. You aren't unique in attracting weirdos. You are unique in attracting almost only weirdos.

All you see is a world of good guys and bad guys, as if life were a sort of cowboy movie. Read The Bible a little more carefully.
 
I should add that people with your simplistic views appear to be the majority in our world. But, then, sinners have always been in the majority.
 
EasternOrthodox said:
I am not responsible for the commenters. We do try to weed out the worst. And please do not tell me that we are unique in attracting weirdos. The Internet is full of them, from all political / religious viewpoints.
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There are more violent, hateful, and ignorant people who flock to conservative, right-wing websites. This is the demographic sites like BCF attract. You present a simple world that appeals to simple minds who want simple answers about why the world sucks. I suggest it isn't that simple. I don't often agree with Graeme either, but I think BCF has enough bigoted content, attracting bigoted commenters, to qualify as a hate-fest. Some stuff is fair comment, I agree, but if people are known at all by the company they keep, then I would not want to be associated with that site.
 
Their "satire" is crude, vulgar and disgusting. Their publication is designed to attract bigots and louts. And it comes from a nation with a long record of killing Muslims, stealing their lands, and looting for resources and cheap labour.

Perhaps someone who thinks it's funny would amuse us with a cartoon of a naked Jesus on hands and knees with a star stuck up his rear end.
 
Graeme Decarie said:
Their "satire" is crude, vulgar and disgusting. Their publication is designed to attract bigots and louts. And it comes from a nation with a long record of killing Muslims, stealing their lands, and looting for resources and cheap labour.

Perhaps someone who thinks it's funny would amuse us with a cartoon of a naked Jesus on hands and knees with a star stuck up his rear end.
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Yes, they're crude and vulgar...and also yes, they have no hesitation about taking on Christianity and Judaism. You aren't familiar with their cartoons on other religions because they do not provoke violent responses. So those cartoons are not going to make the English language news.

The New York Times, who have no problem showing a photo of a painting of the Virgin Mary surrounded by elephant dung, refused to reproduce any of the (newsworthy) Charlie Hebdo cartoons because, their editor said, it would offend their Muslim readers. Offending Christian readers is not a problem.
 
EasternOrthodox said:
Yes, they're crude and vulgar...and also yes, they have no hesitation about taking on Christianity and Judaism. You aren't familiar with their cartoons on other religions because they do not provoke violent responses. So those cartoons are not going to make the English language news.
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Are we still talking about BCF? Christianity is treated with kid gloves there. Every single Islamic-based hate crime is hyped, and the articles are more than 60% Islam-related. The remainder is heavily skewed against Democrats in the US and Liberals in Canada. Headlines are rife with your typical "Lie-brul" sort of intentional misspellings that appeals to mouth-breathers. It's a rag of a blog.

I think Islam is a disaster of a religion as well, as is Christianity. Islam is just younger and seems to be more easily abused, but Christianity isn't innocent here, either. But BCF isn't reporting facts with the intent to shape opinions - they're simply preaching to a very ignorant choir who see themselves as more intelligent and worldly than they show themselves to be.


EasternOrthodox said:
The New York Times, who have no problem showing a photo of a painting of the Virgin Mary surrounded by elephant dung, refused to reproduce any of the (newsworthy) Charlie Hebdo cartoons because, their editor said, it would offend their Muslim readers. Offending Christian readers is not a problem.
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Yep, and that's a regrettable double standard based on a subset of Muslims who insist depicting their prophet is more wrong than anything else, and everyone else should respect that belief more than any other. And that's bulls**t. But so is BCF, most of the time.

You can disagree with these sorts of decisions, and not make yourself look like an ignorant a**hole. BCF, if they are not themselves (debatable), courts the sort of ignorant a**holes who get de-friended and blocked on Facebook and need a place to vent about "Lie-bruls" and "goat f***ers" online.
 
reading the comments in BCF is enough to tell us about the readership. Few comments are more than a sentence (or even a complete one. Fewer have anything to add to the issue. For the most part, they just call people names. These are ignorant louts.
 
chansen makes a good point about Islam being younger than Christianity.....
Having taken a quick look it would appear that Islam is at the Spanish Inquisition stage and that seems to fit quite well with the overall age.
So ..... nothing a few more centuries shouldn't fix :) (yep .... left that open for debate)
Question: Does time actually mature a religion??? Does time actually mature a society?
I feel that in many ways these questions are one and the same.
 
I don't think time does either of those.
there's another angle to this. In the history of imperialism, the conquered try to get ahead by copying the conqueror. That's what Japan did. its army and its navy and its methods of war were modelled on those of the western world. That helps to explain the cruelty of Hong Kong, Singapore, and in China. In fact, Pearl Harbour was modelled on a British attack on an Italian naval base.
ISIL is very much like us. We've been deliberately burning people alive as a basic tactic of war for close to a century - using napalm, phosphorous shells, firebombs, drone rockets... And by the indiscriminate nature of such weapons, we have killed more civilians than soldiers. In Fact, early in WW2, both Germany and us put an emphasis on deliberately killing civilians, using terror as a method of war. Nobody knows how many we burned alive, right down to babies. We're still doing it. Fire was used extensively in Iraq, and is still the major killer for drone rockets. And it still most kills civilians.

The trouble with ISIL is that some Muslims are becoming like us.
 
We never see the brutality of our side, just that of the other side. then we blame it on their religion, or (perceived) race, or insanity. Many, perhaps most, of the German clergy had no problem with Hitler's views and actions - just as most of our own clergy have no trouble with our brutalities.
 
chansen said:
Are we still talking about BCF? Christianity is treated with kid gloves there. Every single Islamic-based hate crime is hyped, and the articles are more than 60% Islam-related. The remainder is heavily skewed against Democrats in the US and Liberals in Canada. Headlines are rife with your typical "Lie-brul" sort of intentional misspellings that appeals to mouth-breathers. It's a rag of a blog.

I think Islam is a disaster of a religion as well, as is Christianity. Islam is just younger and seems to be more easily abused, but Christianity isn't innocent here, either. But BCF isn't reporting facts with the intent to shape opinions - they're simply preaching to a very ignorant choir who see themselves as more intelligent and worldly than they show themselves to be.



Yep, and that's a regrettable double standard based on a subset of Muslims who insist depicting their prophet is more wrong than anything else, and everyone else should respect that belief more than any other. And that's bulls**t. But so is BCF, most of the time.

You can disagree with these sorts of decisions, and not make yourself look like an ignorant a**hole. BCF, if they are not themselves (debatable), courts the sort of ignorant a**holes who get de-friended and blocked on Facebook and need a place to vent about "Lie-bruls" and "goat f***ers" online.
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I told you that BCF is not a perfect fit. By any means. I am actually much more nuanced than you think. I'm responding to you, because I'm hoping you're more reasonable than Graeme.

Graeme more than anyone drove me from Wondercafe. He's a mirror-image of the BCF reader you describe. His worldview is just cast in stone as theirs. He even ended telling me that attempts to educate myself by reading respectable new sites and books by respectable authors was pointless. I'm just so stupid! Can't I see that if those news sites and authors don't match Graeme's views I must simply drop them and accept everything he says? Like he is some of kind of holy man.

I am up for a reasonable discussion, but I can't find here (nor on BCF, for the most part, although we do have a few thoughtful commenters). Again, this place is a mirror image. Just as narrow-minded and fixed in outlook, but on the opposite political pole.

There are few places where one can discuss controversial topics like religion in a nuanced way. And Wondercafe is not one of those places either. It should be, but it's not. Maybe without Graeme I would still be here. Yet everyone supports him.

I've just started reading a book about the Muslim Brotherhood. The author is a UK-based academic named Hazem Kandil. I'm hoping to gain more insight into the movement. Check the online reviews and descriptions: it seems a reasonable choice.

BTW, how much reading have you done on Islam and current events in general? I've been reading like crazy since 9/11.

But if I don't get Graeme's stamp of approval, I'm just another stupid redneck who needs his wisdom.

Enough for now, I'm going back to read the book.
 
let's see. People on Wondercafe don't agree with you. lots of people on BCF don't agree with you. Gee. The whole world must be crazy. Except for you.

many people don't agree with me, either. I feel so persecuted!

By the way, I saw a book that is still read among a group of dedicated but misunderstood people. You might enjoy it. It's called Mein Kampf.
 
Graeme,
It almost seems like one would have to have double vision to see such things ... like an odd character with coming and going traits ... the Grate Weaver? Perhaps if we could laugh at ourselves more we'd be allowed to laugh at the other as virtually connected by entangled fabrications!

This is not likely with those that are isolated one way or the other way ... causing great need for divination ... or a split way of looking at things by both sides of the manifest unreal thingy ... the organ of thought and the plastic spirit thereof? This could be the incarnation of God's soul ... but unlikely according to those that believe god is pure passion ... and thus dangerous without being fed some thoughts ...

Is that out of here like Khartoum in Egypt ... an imaginary land some say ... in reality one should neva, na-Va go there ... could give apocalyptic awakenings as in a weird myth ... created by numerous authors ... there has got to bea Moor to it --- thus the continuum goes on ---Dr Hawking!

Is that an eternal curse to mortals or what? In biblical language this is tamyir ... who messed with Juda ... a real come down when he learned about what at first he didn't observe ...
 
Graeme Decarie said:
let's see. People on Wondercafe don't agree with you. lots of people on BCF don't agree with you. Gee. The whole world must be crazy. Except for you.

many people don't agree with me, either. I feel so persecuted!

By the way, I saw a book that is still read among a group of dedicated but misunderstood people. You might enjoy it. It's called Mein Kampf.
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Graeme,

just be aware of you needing to include BCF & EasternOrthodox etc a part of your 'this is why the West is to blame for Muslim aggression' oeuvre...

other than that, you have the right to be the jerk that you can be

facts speak for themselves...there is no need for you to add to them?
 
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