Go ahead, laugh. Laugh away at me. It’s true though.
Can we please stop misusing the name "Karen"?
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You can’t try to argue that it’s ineffective and they didn’t use it, when they did use it and it was effective. They may not be using it constantly but they did use it initially. That’s what is infuriating me about your behaviour in this discussion. You are ignoring that the video went viral because everybody knows what Karen behaviour is now - and Amy Cooper’s was next level Karen behaviour. They claimed the word and called attention to the video with the word. Nobody just uses the moniker Karen as an insult, or truth telling tool, without attaching it to a particular attitude or behaviour. They did it right.
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You are. I’ve read this thread over, and you are wrong. I never said their conversations after the fact weren’t helpful. Never said that. I said that “Karen” was a useful and effective tool to name a certain type behaviour that’s understood and common, and they did use it to call attention to Amy Cooper - and that worked. It was literally the first action they did publicly - was to post the video using Karen in the description. It, in fact, helped start the conversation. What infuriates me is your unwillingness to admit you were wrong. Ever. You never do. I guess you never think you do anything wrong. I admit I’m wrong all the time. I catch my own mistakes all the time. I admit my faults and vulnerabilities all the time. Then, what you do is pounce on those and use those vulnerabilities against me when you’ve got nothing else. You’ve done it with disability slurs, making false equivalency, but trying to hurt. You’ve done it with my past insofar as i’ve described it to you. In fact, the reason I recognize what you are doing is I’ve experienced this kind of bullying enough to see you doing it too. It’s not transference. I am indeed recognizing what you, not anyone from my past, is doing. You have bullied. And I guess you think “laughing” at me will offset that. Maybe it will to this crowd. But I know why I defended the use of the word Karen and it wasn’t to be “magnificent”. It was to understand and support it as a moniker, taken up by black people, to call out entitled white women. I argued against anyone who said it was not that...because it is that. That’s the truth. I wasn’t going to let entitled white people decide what the use of Karen is all about without debate. I wasn’t going to just let them whine about it in entitled unison. Because they’re wrong. That’s just the truth.
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Then Pinga steps in and says...but, but, menstruation shame! Tone deaf and late to the party. It makes me angry.
(Yes there’s menstruation shaming, no this is nothing like that.)
(Yes there’s menstruation shaming, no this is nothing like that.)
Lastpointe
Well-Known Member
Kimmo you need to take a deep breath about this
BetteTheRed
Resident Heretic
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You're so fired up you're not reading again, Kimmio. I brought up general female shame in the first place, and Pinga was kind enough to run with it. I have a tendency to try to re-direct you, more than directly argue, if I can. You make a terrible mess of threads sometimes.
But it's not about general female shame. It's now, because it was claimed by black activists - about entitled white females who do the shaming, because they feel entitled to be the arbiters of what's right. And yes it is ironic, that I am saying this as a white woman. There are no black voices here and they would be really helpful voices to have here. Their perspective needs to be brought up. Since there are no black feminists here, I pulled up articles where black feminists discussed the history and tradition of using white female monikers to refer to colonial entitlement - and that from the black feminist point of view, white women are more priveleged and they also bear historical responsibility as white women specifically, for the abuse and oppression of black people. That is perfectly clear to me. Once I realized that I could not go back to considering that it's just a sexist slur, or intolerable insult to people named Karen.
Northwind
Stationary nomad.
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This is my last comment on the matter. I am not wrong. If anything is wrong it's the story you tell yourself about what you've decided I said. It is based on your assumptions about what I said and your interpretation of what I said. It has very little to do with what I actually said, know or believe.
Just stop. Or keep on yapping. I will not be responding further no matter how many times you tag or quote me.
I'm going to start here, again. Chris and Melody Cooper used the name Karen to identify the behaviour when they put the video out for the public to see. I don't think Chris and Melody Cooper lost the argument after they initially did what you said would already cost someone their argument.
Mrs.Anteater
Just keep going....
Oh, kimmio, first of all, only Melody used the name Karen, and secondly, what Northwind is trying to say is that both of them do not need you to advocate for them, because they are able to communicate their point much more articulate than using a label of ”Karen”, as the posted videos are showing. Without a differentiation and further discussion, this would just end in labeling and judgement which never has any affect on change and is a dead end in solving conflicts.
Noticed Chris’ attitude towards the fall-out on Amy after the video went public? He refuses to label and to judge. So, in a “ biblical“ sense, if the one who has been violated doesn’t judge the perpetrator, who are you to do so? And further- isn’t there a touch of “ racism” in it if you feel you are entitled to speak for him or black people in general?
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I know they don’t need me to advocate for them! (The black feminist POV needed to be included though) I was pointing out holes in northwinds argument that labels kill the argument...she pulled a fast one by trying brush over the fact that Chris and Melody did use Karen to call attention to the behaviour...and it was fine. I caught her when she said something to the effect of “imagine if Chris Cooper had resorted to that” (uh...he did?) she just kept on like she wasn’t wrong. It was labelling to draw attention to the tweet that contained the video and it was a good idea to do that. It didn’t cost them their argument - it accelerated it and affirmed it. She won’t admit she is wrong about that! Drives...me...nuts. She is being arrogant - like a Karen - will not lower herself to admit her own mistakes to me, and she accuses me of behaving how she behaves. But that’s what a Karen does I guess, isn’t it?
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If I did not mention “Hey people there’s the black feminist POV to consider here” when I know what that is, and when there are no black voices here to raise the point - I would be a horrible person...to let you people go on and on like it’s just simply a sexist insult to entitled white women everywhere. Those arguments cannot be left to stand.
I learned that and needed to share it with you lest your arguments keep making you look like entitled and racist white women. And maybe make you think twice about whining about the misuse of names - if you just give 5 minutes of thought on the misuse of names by white people over centuries. You’re welcome. Now are you done shitting on me? I’m done with northwind and the rest of you in this thread. I’m disgusted. I’m out. I’m going to gimp/ crip out of here. Gotta get away from all the Karens.
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One more thing...you know what else is disgusting? On one thread you're telling me/ agreeing that white people need to educate ourselves and stop asking black people to do that for us because they've been trying for decades and they're tired of it. I felt that we should not figure it out without getting their pov. That was a big pissing match. So in this thread I brought up the black feminist pov about the history of using monikers to label a behaviour that's essentially the same as it ever was. That didn't actually create a discussion. Instead people just dug their heels in whining about sexism and labelling, like broken records stuck on the white entitlement track. Now I am being accused of being racist for empathizing with the use of Karen without black people here to vouch for it. Hypocrites!
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It was Chris’ video, he gave it to Melody to post with his permission and didn’t object to her using the Karen label in the title. “They” used the Karen moniker. And even if you don’t see the tweet and the video as a team effort from both of them - it was still effective for Melody to do that.
Yeah, imagine hundreds of years of being kept silent and then white people still think we have to stand up and protect a black feminist POV by giving our POV and clarifying what was meant. Hmmm.
Northwind
Stationary nomad.
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When a man does it, it's mansplaining. What is it in this case besides racist?
Probably just the inability to honour anothers experience that wasn't ours.
Hmmm, must watch Beaches again..........
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