Can we please stop misusing the name "Karen"?

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Northwind said:
When a man does it, it's mansplaining. What is it in this case besides racist?
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Actually, “ racist” is a too strong word I used. It’s just in the category of “speaking for someone and thinking one is right and knows better than the person themselves.” I also had an impression that defending labels is a sign of bias that black people have a less articulate way of speaking ( which as we saw in the video is certainly not the case.) - but it is an ongoing characteristic in movies.
So we are ok with labeling people? I would call out anybody who uses labels and generalized judgements, no matter what colour. I expect anybody who wants to make a point by making it with arguments, not with labels. Chris has done that very well. No need to defend the use of the word Karen”.
 
Mrs.Anteater said:
Actually, “ racist” is a too strong word I used. It’s just in the category of “speaking for someone and thinking one is right and knows better than the person themselves.”
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Isn't speaking for someone and thinking one is right a form of racism, in the case of a white person speaking for people of colour or sexism in the case of a man speaking for a woman. It's certainly exerting a power and privilege along with a sense of entitlement.

Mrs.Anteater said:
I also had an impression that defending labels is a sign of bias that black people have a less articulate way of speaking ( which as we saw in the video is certainly not the case.)
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It is clear that the Coopers are very articulate and able to respond to this and arguably other acts of systemic racism very well. They do not rely on labels. I've appreciated all the voices that have come out in response to recent events. Frankly, there have been articulate voices for some time. We're finally listening to them. As we should.
 
Northwind said:
Isn't speaking for someone and thinking one is right a form of racism, in the case of a white person speaking for people of colour or sexism in the case of a man speaking for a woman. It's certainly exerting a power and privilege along with a sense of entitlement.
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Certainly a sense of entitlement. But I would be weary of watering down the word “ racism”. Racism is a serious case of injustice. I think in this case, kimmio is just so convinced she has to defend the “underdog” that she doesn’t notices the issue with that. It comes from a well- meaning place.
 
Waterfall said:
Yeah, imagine hundreds of years of being kept silent and then white people still think we have to stand up and protect a black feminist POV by giving our POV and clarifying what was meant. Hmmm.
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I learned something about the history of generic white woman naming for entitled white woman behaviour. I know there's a good reason Karen has been claimed to call out that behaviour. I'm white. I'm here with other white women who insist on staying on with calling it sexist, deciding it's too insulting to people named Karen, finding articles to support their pov, and saying labelling is never okay. What am I supposed to do? Say nothing and let you go on like that unchallenged?
 
Mrs.Anteater said:
But I would be weary of watering down the word “ racism”. Racism is a serious case of injustice.
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That's a good point. We don't want to water down the term or overuse it. At the same time, we can do a lot of damage when we are well meaning.
 
And when someone is not being honest...by not acknowledging that Chris and Melody as a team did use the Karen moniker to label Amy's behaviour, when that someone said labelling was never okay and automatically loses the argument if it's resorted to, that upsets me. It was 'clickbait' but in a good way with an effective result. Everyone has a general idea of "Karen" behaviour and they were claiming it to point out racism. Everyone wanted to see for themselves what that particular "Karen" did. She was caught. He may regret how she was treated and feel no animosity, but a lot of people - maybe even his sister - who have had to tolerate horrible white women threatening them for no reason felt Amy deserved some type of punishment or she'd just go on being that way. They took the chance that the public would have strong feelings about what happened to Chris when they made the video public. They didn't have to make it public.
 
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Northwind said:
That's a good point. We don't want to water down the term or overuse it. At the same time, we can do a lot of damage when we are well meaning.
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Well meaning entitled white women who aren't educating themselves about the claiming of the word Karen to call out racist white woman behaviour can do a lot of damage when they talk right past that point and keep going on about how sexist and insulting it is.
 
Northwind said:
That's a good point. We don't want to water down the term or overuse it. At the same time, we can do a lot of damage when we are well meaning.
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Systemic racism is often either not noticed at all or so watered down as to be tolerated - it's still racism. It needs to be addressed because it allows for more blatant racism to happen.
 
And as a white woman I have never experienced racism. I have experienced ableism. Systemic and blatant. As a white woman I know I have a certain amount of privilege that POC don’t have - even though it’s less than white men. As a disabled woman I know what it’s like to be dehumanized, thought of as less than human, and talked about like I wasn’t even there or had no valid point because I’m told a more educated expert has more right over the fate of disabled people’s own lives - or to interpret my experiences - than I do over my own (a much more dehumanizing version of ‘mansplaining’ that there isn’t even a word for yet). And that is a pretty common feeling, unfortunately. Some of the worst human behaviour is coming from abled entitled white women. They have historically, not just personally, been responsible for some horrible attitudes and behaviours that put our health and well being at risk. I think that minorities living in a world still influenced by colonialism need to come together and look at this through an intersectional lens. It would be helpful if everyone did.
 
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Kimmio Laughterlove said:
I learned something about the history of generic white woman naming for entitled white woman behaviour. I know there's a good reason Karen has been claimed to call out that behaviour. I'm white. I'm here with other white women who insist on staying on with calling it sexist, deciding it's too insulting to people named Karen, finding articles to support their pov, and saying labelling is never okay. What am I supposed to do? Say nothing and let you go on like that unchallenged?
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If labeling is okay with you that's your opinion....not trying to change that....just giving you my opinion. I don't like naming to shame for anyone.....it's not sexist to me, it's mean.
 
Waterfall said:
Only she knows. Ask her.
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Don't put it on me. Take responsibility for your opinion. From your observations you believe that behaviour to be mean. You think it's mean generally. So it's only logical if you think she was being mean, isn't it?

Is it mean across the board or are there exceptions?

I began my argument - before it was dismissed and became a pissing match directed at me - by pointing out that there are exceptions.
 
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Kimmio Laughterlove said:
Don't put it on me. Take responsibility for your opinion. From your observations you believe that behaviour to be mean. You think it's mean generally. So it's only logical if you think she was being mean, isn't it?

Is it mean across the board or are there exceptions?

I began my argument - before it was dismissed and became a pissing match directed at me - by pointing out that there are exceptions.
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I think my opinion was pretty straight forward....take it or leave it.
 
Mendalla said:
I should probably post this someplace more public (and still might), but I am increasingly uncomfortable with use of a real name as a kind of insulting catch-all for angry, bigoted white women. The fact is, there are many nice women named Karen out there. One of them even designed the logo for this site. We have worked together for probably a decade now and she is a wonderful woman who does not deserve to have her name used an an insult. I was friends with a Karen or two in the past, too.

I would go further and suggest that the use of real names as insults should, in general, be a no-go zone.

I don't see it used here much and I hope people might give some thought to what I am saying before using it. What if someone on here really is named Karen? How would you feel if your name was used as an insulting, catch-all name for some undesirable group?

Interested to hear your thoughts, especially if you feel like defending what seems to me to be indefensible misuse of someone's name. Because it would really have to be one hell of a defense to my mind.
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How about putting this somewhere where black voices can be heard and participate on the matter? How do you feel about that?
 
Mrs.Anteater said:
Why don’t you invite Chris Cooper to this thread?
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Why don't you? You thought of it. Why doesn't Mendalla - he was pretty sure when he made this thread that the misuse of the name Karen - on behalf of all the Karens (even though the cool ones are happy to lend their name to the cause) - was an important problem that needed to be more public.
 
I think Northwind should invite Chris Cooper and tell him that using the Karen label because it's labelling and name calling is not ok. I think she should say it to him the way she said it to me - with authority. And see how that's received.
 
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