Can we please stop misusing the name "Karen"?

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Pinga said:
Tried 3x, leaving the thread.
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I know your pain.

Kimmio Laughterlove said:
But if anyone tries to tell him that he or his sister should apologize, I think they would justifiably be told off by a lot of people.
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Just to be clear I am not saying they need to apologize. If in fact they are using that term, it's their's to use. It is their fight. As allys we cannot take over their battle. We need to walk beside them

Kimmio Laughterlove said:
I think the entitled white women lost the Karen argument and we should just shut up and listen and learn now.
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I hope that sticking to the delusion that you've won makes you feel better. Delusions are good for that even though they are not reality based.
 
Northwind said:
Just to be clear I am not saying they need to apologize. If in fact they are using that term, it's their's to use. It is their fight. As allys we cannot take over their battle. We need to walk beside them
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Then we shouldn’t be having this argument in the first place. Chris and Melody already won it. I didn’t win it. All I did was realize that they already won it.
 
Here is one example of how Christian Cooper handled this with dignity and respected her humanity. He is naming her behaviour and would like to sit down and have a conversation with her. As he mentioned, he and others had decided to record these types of incidents where it was safe to do so. His actions and response were far more effective than calling her a Karen. This is exactly what I mean when I say calling out the behaviour is more effective than name calling. Kimmio you could learn from him.

 
And another video. I still haven't heard the word Karen used. I've seen two intelligent people discussing the issues and naming the problem.

 
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
This interview doesn’t disprove my point at all. It affirms it. You are gaslighting now. Trying to take credit for understanding something you didn’t get right away...and telling me I have no clue. Bully.
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My first response was to swear at you. That was wrong. I am not the bully. Good day.
 
I am familiar with your behaviour Northwind. I was raised around it. That is : when wrong, give the cold shoulder, stick your nose in the air, and tell the other person they have no clue and walk away. It is a form of bullying.
 
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
I am familiar with your behaviour Northwind. I was raised around it. That is : when wrong, give the cold shoulder, stick your nose in the air, and tell the other person they have no clue.
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Yes, and I'm familiar with your behaviour. You are sticking to your narrative no matter what. You demonize those who oppose you and push people away from the discussion. As long as you're unwilling to budge from your stubborn hold on a narrative that makes you feel virtuous, you will appear to have no clue. You seem to want to protect two people who are fully capable of handling the situation themselves without your magnificence. I am not those people who raised you and it is not possible for me to have a discussion like this with you when transference gets in the way.
 
Northwind said:
Yes, and I'm familiar with your behaviour. You are sticking to your narrative no matter what. You demonize those who oppose you and push people away from the discussion. As long as you're unwilling to budge from your stubborn hold on a narrative that makes you feel virtuous, you will appear to have no clue. You seem to want to protect two people who are fully capable of handling the situation themselves without your magnificence. I am not those people who raised you and it is not possible for me to have a discussion like this with you when transference gets in the way.
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I was sticking up for their side because I get it. I got the point of Karen pretty fast and never thought it was offensive - and I’m a white woman whose name starts with K. Why would I pick the side of the argument I picked? Why didn’t I just side with you? Was I being out of line for taking their side - understanding why they used the word and defending it - and not siding with you?

Your argument was taking away from their side (actually it proves their point but it’s not on their side) - you were taking the wrong side - and I could see that. I’m telling the truth.
 
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If you had actually heard my argument you would know that's not the case. Your transference, projections and assumptions blind you. Even posting videos of them speaking for themselves didn't move you. They don't need you to speak for them.

Using a label like Karen does nothing to further the very real discussion that needs to happen around systemic racism. I don't understand why you can't see that.
 
Oh f***. Uppity white women strike again.


Northwind you went from, “it’s never okay”, to “it’s theirs to use. As allies we need to stand beside them” - so I’m going to choose to believe that taking their side and adamantly defending the use of the word Karen because they weren’t here to do it, was the right thing to do. I couldn’t just agree with everybody that it was so unfair for people named Karen, or that it was sexist - because Chris and Melody Cooper themselves used it! The disconnect between saying it’s a bad and/ or ineffectual thing, and the fact that they used it was too much. They actually claimed the name for a particular behaviour and that worked. I had to take their side, try to empathize with those who used it to name a behaviour and why - and not say it’s wrong. It would be unjust not take their side, and to just agree with you.

Whether you admit it to yourself, or here, that your point of view changed during the course of this discussion, or not - I don’t care. It doesn’t matter how you got there.
 
Northwind said:
Here is one example of how Christian Cooper handled this with dignity and respected her humanity. He is naming her behaviour and would like to sit down and have a conversation with her. As he mentioned, he and others had decided to record these types of incidents where it was safe to do so. His actions and response were far more effective than calling her a Karen. This is exactly what I mean when I say calling out the behaviour is more effective than name calling. Kimmio you could learn from him.

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The name Karen called attention to the video, and the behaviour in the video - and if there was ever any confusion that racists tried to make about the moniker - Chris and Melody claimed use of that the moniker and it took its rightful place as an easily accessible descriptor for that behaviour. The name Karen helped the video go viral and yes it was effective.
 
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