Can You Be Rich and Be a Christian?

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unsafe, that's not fair. You are always nailing poor George in particular, with the false preacher narrative. Don't you see yourself doing that? If you don't, go back and look at some interactions. I observe even more than I talk.

He just has a few different opinions than you do, not even as many as you think. Why do you hammer into nice people who just disagree on a point or two? Why don't you seek points of agreement at times? Your aggressiveness over opinions that differ from yours truly bemuses me.
 
BetteTheRed ----you said -----that's not fair.

I ask -----What is not fair ?---are you saying it is OK for GeoFee to judge and accuse other people of not conversing in a respectful manner --when he does it himself ----he has placed judgement on me many --many times in his posts -----as he does in this post that he wrote above ---

He says this -----you will stop accusing others. ---is that not a judging me ----it is like the POT calling the Kettle black in my view ---he is no just saying himself here---he says I accuse others -----which I have not done -----

He says this -----I am happy to walk the second mile with you ---and then accuses me of accusing others -----so he is just doing what he is telling me not to do -----is that not what a Hypocrite does ---tells people not to do something and then does it themselves -----very easy to be a hypocrite for us all ------we tell people not to judge and by telling them that we are in fact judging them -----

And when I say anything to GeoFee ---I am criticising his use of scripture --1 --he never gives the scripture in context ---2--- he never gives the Book --chapter and verses he is using -----

Here is an example ------In this thread he posts this from scripture ----to who much is given much is required ------that is it ---no explanation --no context -no clue as to where he got the sentence from --just using this one sentence to justify what he thinks ------So this comes from post 57 page 3 on July 25 This thread ----To Whom Much is Given, Much Will Be Required.” -----

So yes ---i do criticise his scripture use as it is ---as far as I am concerned a misuse of God's word ---and is ignorant not to tell where you get the scripture from so the context can be considered ---

Here is the last 2 verses of that scripture -----in context ----and it has nothing to do with rich Christians ----it is a Parable of a faithful steward in charge of a house hold -----he took this scripture and used it out of context to prove his point of what ???? ----What he believes which is What ?------go sell all your stuff and only then can you follow Jesus ---which has nothing to do with the scripture he quoted -----

Luke 12:47-48 AMP --


47 And that servant who knew his master’s will, and yet did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will be beaten with many lashes [of the whip], 48 but the one who did not know it and did things worthy of a beating, will receive only a few [lashes]. From everyone to whom much has been given, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all
the more.
 
I would like to get back to the original question. Can you be rich and be a Christian? What is a Christian? Is it a person who claims Jesus as Lord and believes in Jesus, but does not believe what Jesus says? Is it any person who claims to be a Christian? The reality is that there are so many ideas about what makes a person a Christian that almost any rich person could fit under that label. Harder is the question: Can you be rich and be a follower of Jesus? That is, be a person who tries to walk the direction set out by Jesus. If the wealth is acquired by inheritance or creative work (art, technology, engineering, etc.) and is used to help people, the answer could easily be yes.
 
jimkenney12 -----you said -----
Can you be rich and be a follower of Jesus? That is, be a person who tries to walk the direction set out by Jesus. If the wealth is acquired by inheritance or creative work (art, technology, engineering, etc.) and is used to help people, the answer could easily be yes.

I say ---I totally disagree with this statement ------Number one -----you cannot follow Jesus all by your sinful self ----that is just not possible ----WHY --Because we are of a corruptible seed ---Jesus is an incorruptible seed ------we are ego feeding human beings ---- and to follow Jesus we need to die to ego -----and our sinful nature ----and the only way to do that is to have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and rely on God's Grace to strengthen us in our weaknesses -----

Anyone who thinks they can follow Jesus without Jesus in us is being duped by the god of this world Satan -----that is my view on that -----
 
Why would anyone set out to follow Jesus if Jesus or the Christ was not already in them? What do you mean by follow Jesus? Sometimes it feels like we are using two different languages. Please note that I said the answer could be yes. Why are you apparently determined to find reasons to exclude people? How large or small is the grace of the God in whom you believe?
 
jimkenney12 -----you said -----
Can you be rich and be a follower of Jesus? That is, be a person who tries to walk the direction set out by Jesus. If the wealth is acquired by inheritance or creative work (art, technology, engineering, etc.) and is used to help people, the answer could easily be yes.

I say ---I totally disagree with this statement ------Number one -----you cannot follow Jesus all by your sinful self ----that is just not possible ----WHY --Because we are of a corruptible seed ---Jesus is an incorruptible seed ------we are ego feeding human beings ---- and to follow Jesus we need to die to ego -----and our sinful nature ----and the only way to do that is to have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and rely on God's Grace to strengthen us in our weaknesses -----

Anyone who thinks they can follow Jesus without Jesus in us is being duped by the god of this world Satan -----that is my view on that -----
Allow me to disagree with your disagreement. One of the letters to Timothy reminds us that 'The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.' NOT simply having it, controlling it, or inheriting it. It is the love, the lust, for more more more that is the root of evil. And a person who tries to walk in the direction set out by Jesus may, indeed, be responding to the grace of God. It is NOT your place to decree and declare that it isn't possible. Your particular path may be the path for you. It is NOT the ONLY path. Maybe if you opened your mind and heart, you might understand that better.
 
jimkenney12 -----you said -----How large or small is the grace of the God in whom you believe?

Which Grace are you speaking of there jimkenny12 ---only one grace Saves ---to be able to follow Jesus ----

What Is The Difference Between Common Grace And Saving Grace

Common Grace: God's Gift To All Mankind

God's grace is so powerful that it encompasses all the world. God's common grace is the reason that everyone—Christian or non-Christian—enjoys the blessing of life, provision and abundance. Matthew 5:45 tells us, "For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust."

"The grace of God has appeared" as Titus 2:11 tells us, but the problem is that not everyone receives God as the source of grace. But nonetheless God gives grace of life and goodness to all whether people receive or reject Him. That's why even the unjust receive God's goodness. They might not deserve it, but God extends it still

Psalm 145:9 further tells us, "The Lord is good to all, and his mercy is over all that he has made."

The Bible also tells us that it was God who raised up the empire of Egypt, Babylon, Persia and Rome even though they were not surrendered to Him. God gives common grace to everyone not because we deserve it, but because He is faithful and generous.


Saving Grace: The Promise To Those Who Believe

While every single person to ever walk this earth is recipient to common grace, there is another grace that is offered to only those who put their faith and trust in Christ. That is the saving grace of God.

The saving grace works in many ways. It empowers us to repent and change our ungodly ways and furthermore justifies us of all sin, assuring us of eternal life.

This grace, just like common grace, is unmerited, but unlike common grace cannot be enjoyed once rejected.

Ephesians 2:8 describes for us saving grace: "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God."

Saving grace results to our sanctification.
It serves as our justification to make a way for our glorification in Christ so that we may live in and for God in this life and for all eternity.
 
It is like talking to a stone Wahl'd thing ... with a hand writing on it ... and the Wahl can't see for the indelibility! Tis dark ... needing spark ...
 
Redbaron ---you said ----Allow me to disagree with your disagreement. -----

I say ----you can do that --I have no problem with you disagreeing with what I said -----

Redbaron ---you said ----One of the letters to Timothy reminds us that 'The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.

I say -----this is that scripture you talk about ------this is talking about False Prophets ----who are Professing Christians -----not true Christians ----

1 Timothy 6:3-10 (ERV)
False Teaching and True Riches
3 Some people will teach what is false and will not agree with the true teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ. They will not accept the teaching that produces a life of devotion to God. 4 They are proud of what they know, but they understand nothing. They are sick with a love for arguing and fighting about words. And that brings jealousy, quarrels, insults, and evil mistrust. 5 They are always making trouble, because they are people whose thinking has been confused. They have lost their understanding of the truth. They think that devotion to God is a way to get rich.

6 Devotion to God is, in fact, a way for people to be very rich, but only if it makes them satisfied with what they have. 7 When we came into the world, we brought nothing. And when we die, we can take nothing out. 8 So, if we have food and clothes, we will be satisfied with that. 9 People who want to be rich bring temptations to themselves. They are caught in a trap. They begin to want many foolish things that will hurt them. These things ruin and destroy people. 10 The love of money causes all kinds of evil. Some people have turned away from what we believe because they want to get more and more money. But they have caused themselves a lot of pain and sorrow.


Redbaron ----you said ----And a person who tries to walk in the direction set out by Jesus may, indeed, be responding to the grace of God.

I say ------Which grace are you referring to ---Common or Saving grace cause only one Grace helps a person walk in the direction set out by Jesus --and that is Saving Grace that comes through the right Faith ------see my above post

Redbaron --you said ---- It is NOT your place to decree and declare that it isn't possible.

I say ---no you are right there --it is not my place -----but it is God's place in His word to decree and declare that ---- He does it very well in the full scripture your stated here ---letters to Timothy --and I quoted above -----


Redbaron --you said ----Your particular path may be the path for you. It is NOT the ONLY path. Maybe if you opened your mind and heart, you might understand that better.

I say ----Yes you are right there ---it is the best path and i chose well for myself -------

To your next statement -here --- It is NOT the ONLY path.----I say --well it depends on what your talking about here -----if your talking about following Jesus path -----then the scriptures make it very clear that there is only one path ------Grace through Faith ----- and it is not common Grace or human faith -----it is Saving Grace who is Jesus which comes through Saving Faith ---


KJV Dictionary Definition: faith
Evangelical, justifying, or saving faith, is the assent of the mind to the truth of divine revelation, on the authority of God's testimony, accompanied with a cordial assent of the will or approbation of the heart; an entire confidence or trust in God's character and declarations, and in the character and doctrines of Christ, with an unreserved surrender of the will to his guidance, and dependence on his merits for salvation. In other words, that firm belief of God's testimony, and of the truth of the gospel, which influences the will, and leads to an entire reliance on Christ for salvation.


Redbaron ---you said ------Maybe if you opened your mind and heart, you might understand that better.

I say -----Your statement here goes right back at ya ------LOL :angel:
 
The statement does in fact include ALL of us. Open hearts and minds are essential.
And don't bother with that old bromide, 'Don't open your mind so widely that your brains fall out.' It's been my experience in life that people who say such things like that usually don't have enough brains to worry about losing.

By the way, John Wesley divided up grace: prevenient, convincing, justifying, and sanctifying. It was all a continuum, all Gid's grace. No division between 2 graces, like you indicted above. God's grace is open to all. As we respond in faith to it, we receive more. No such distinction as you outline above exists, despite what your favourite websites say. Grace is grace, or it isn't grace.
 
'Trust' might be a better word. The word 'faith', a good, useful word, has had so much baggage hung around it like an albatross, its connotations far outstrip its denotations.
 
Redbaron ---you said ------Open hearts and minds are essential.

I say ----we need to be very careful who and what we open our hearts and mind to -----we have a Spiritual enemy who is very capable of opening our hearts and mind to the wrong way -----

God says this about hearts and minds ----this is essential to stay on the right heart and mind path ----

Proverbs 4 (AMP)
A Father’s Instruction

20
My son, pay attention to my words and be willing to learn;
Open your ears to my sayings.
21
Do not let them escape from your sight;
Keep them in the center of your heart.

22
For they are life to those who find them,
And healing and health to all their flesh.
23
Watch over your heart with all diligence,
For from it flow the springs of life.
24
Put away from you a deceitful (lying, misleading) mouth,
And put devious lips far from you.
25
Let your eyes look directly ahead [toward the path of moral courage]
And let your gaze be fixed straight in front of you [toward the path of integrity].
26
Consider well and watch carefully the path of your feet,
And all your ways will be steadfast and sure.
27
Do not turn away to the right nor to the left [where evil may lurk];
Turn your foot from [the path of] evil.
 
Admit it the powerful will steal your thoughts ... and thus IT goes ...

Every night my silent friend works IT (dais thing) over ... all in the indelible realm ... with Joseph in his wrap ... many Hewed?
 
I would like to get back to the original question. Can you be rich and be a Christian? What is a Christian? Is it a person who claims Jesus as Lord and believes in Jesus, but does not believe what Jesus says? Is it any person who claims to be a Christian? The reality is that there are so many ideas about what makes a person a Christian that almost any rich person could fit under that label. Harder is the question: Can you be rich and be a follower of Jesus? That is, be a person who tries to walk the direction set out by Jesus. If the wealth is acquired by inheritance or creative work (art, technology, engineering, etc.) and is used to help people, the answer could easily be yes.
Jim, I am curiuos, why do you limit the method that wealth is acquired.

Maybe reframing the question? Can a poor person not be a Christian? (or any other faith based on their growing up? Does it matter how they became poor? Does it matter how they live their life, spent their time and talents?
 
I'm suspecting that Jim is trying to limit the methods to "ethical" ones. It is not unethical to work for wealth (nor to contribute massively helpful ideas), nor can one help the circumstances of one's birth (inheritance). Any other way of acquiring wealth might be said to be at least ethically suspect, from "stock manipulations" to Ponzi schemes, to outright theft, whether physical or electronic.
 
What about building a factory, or acquiring a business whether it be consumer products or a manufacturer, treating people well, and paying a just salary.
What about building a consulting company and ensuring your staff are paid well and you can keep them paid when on the bench (I have a quite good friend who has built wealth this way)

or conversely, does digging a ditch make you less or more worthy than an artist or an IT professional or an ER nurse or a dishwasher?
 
But those are using creative talents to build up capital.

I don't think that's a problem.

I don't even know if "getting" the wealth is as important (as long as it's ethical) as is excessive keeping of it, like a dragon sitting on a hoard of gold. Jeff Bezos, I'm looking at you...

And also, there's "wealth" and there's "wealth". I think that you and Lastpointe and Mendalla's boss, etc., are "comfortably well off", and I don't think that's a problem. It's the Betsy Devos of the world, who can't think of anything better to do with their money than to buy an "extra" yacht, who are a totally different kettle of fish.
 
Jim, I am curiuos, why do you limit the method that wealth is acquired.

Maybe reframing the question? Can a poor person not be a Christian? (or any other faith based on their growing up? Does it matter how they became poor? Does it matter how they live their life, spent their time and talents?
I was not trying to limit how wealth was acquired. I was offering examples of how to acquire wealth without the exploitation of others. I included creative to include makers, artisans, artists, inventors and idea creators. As long as a poor person is not so poor their daily survival is on the line, it can be relatively easy for them to be followers of Jesus. It takes great strength of character for a really poor person to not be focused on staying alive. How people live, spend their time and talents, how they relate to other people reflects if they are followers of Jesus.
 
How people live, spend their time and talents, how they relate to other people reflects if they are followers of Jesus.


This.

This doesn't include reference to money. It doesn't include comments re how much someone has, or how little.

This works for me.
 
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