Can You Be Rich and Be a Christian?

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jimkenney12

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Pinga, those are also examples of people with wealth who are not possessed by that wealth.
 

BetteTheRed

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And wealth means different things in different cultures.

In some cultures, having servants is a sign of wealth.

In others, having enough food stored that the next few meals are secured, is a sign of wealth.

Is it helpful to imagine what "wealth" was in Jesus' time? Can those of us "relatively poor" people who have closets full of clothes relate to the idea of having only two outfits and giving away one of them?
 

Mrs.Anteater

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Is it helpful to imagine what "wealth" was in Jesus' time? Can those of us "relatively poor" people who have closets full of clothes relate to the idea of having only two outfits and giving away one of them?
This. It is easy from the “ relatively poor” standpoint to judge about the second yacht of some richer person. Compared to the person who only has one pair of shoes or none, we are the rich.
After the war, there were some thoughts of introducing a “ maximum wage” . I still like the idea. It always baffles me to hear what soccer players or famous musicians are earning. Compare that to the price that people have to pay to go to the stadium or concert hall. After all, they are doing something they enjoy, that is not dangerous (in general) and also not disgusting. No need to pay them that much.
 

Mendalla

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famous musicians
How do you handle creatives under a "maximum wage" though? The kind of musicians you are talking about here, the Biebers and Swifts, generally don't get a wage or salary. They get royalties (for records) or a percentage of gate (for concerts). How do you cap something like that in a way that is fair? Basically, you would be saying that an artist is no longer entitled to royalties from their creative work after a certain amount. What happens to the money at that point? The record companies and promoters would be drooling at the prospect of being able to keep more of an artist's gross than they already do and I think the artist deserves it. If Bieber fans spend enough on his records that he make a million dollars in royalties and concert take, why not let him have it instead of the greedy backroom dealers?
 
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There are people who have the “gift of making money for society” - whatever the f that means, it only means anything in the context of our already corrupt capitalist system. Once they get to a certain level of wealth, they are just harming and exploiting to keep that wealth and make more.

Who needs to have a billion dollars? Seriously, who needs to? Tired of excuses for the obnoxiously wealthy. It’s disgusting to defend it.
 
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How do you handle creatives under a "maximum wage" though? The kind of musicians you are talking about here, the Biebers and Swifts, generally don't get a wage or salary. They get royalties (for records) or a percentage of gate (for concerts). How do you cap something like that in a way that is fair? Basically, you would be saying that an artist is no longer entitled to royalties from their creative work after a certain amount. What happens to the money at that point? The record companies and promoters would be drooling at the prospect of being able to keep more of an artist's gross than they already do and I think the artist deserves it. If Bieber fans spend enough on his records that he make a million dollars in royalties and concert take, why not let him have it instead of the greedy backroom dealers?
In this day and age they could probably figure out how to do it independently, without help of big labels.
 

Mendalla

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In this day and age they could probably figure out how to do it independently, without help of big labels.
A lot of them are, though I find the really big names still benefit from the marketing power of labels and promoters. But for midrange and smaller artists, going indie is definitely viable now between crowdfunding and social media. Even writers are increasingly making use of self-publishing services rather than hunting for agents and publishers when they are starting out. Tough way to make a living though because you are basically doing everything yourself, which cuts in to actual time for doing creative work.
 
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I know a musical artist (went to elementary and high school with him and his sister, she passed away) - I haven’t seen him in years but I am quite sure we’d recognize each other if I saw him in the grocery store. He’s the kind of person who’d say hello first. Anyway, he didn’t get “famous” (to a local degree maybe) but he did sell his songs for movie sound tracks and I saw him in a local interview talking about selling his music for commercials to make his bread and butter - I’m not sure how I feel about the commercials but I understand the days of making money off being signed to a big label are in the past for most artists (and respectfully I think he’s too old to become a big rock star now - but who knows). Then there are some artists who don’t care about fame. They make a meagre living doing small gigs and selling a few CD’s or whatever and they’re fine with that - and there are some gems out there. Even busking on the street. Those are true artists. The ones who don’t do it for money, but just for the sake of the art, and the process of making art - they’re literally poor “nobodies”. So many artists of different mediums have only become well known after death, too.

In this world, you’re nobody unless you’re trying to make money. It’s pretty gross.
 
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My landlords are camping, and their friend is staying upstairs for a few days to look after the cats and plants (they just told me the day before they left). He was travelling abroad teaching English - I guess, before covid. I am not sure where his “permanent” address is now, I just met him...but he plays the piano, improvises, like a Maestro! I could hear him up there and it was incredible. Soft spoken, kind, man in his 60s. My point is...he’s not somebody chasing money or fame. Seems fine doing whatever he does. And he gave me two free concerts!
 
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Mrs.Anteater

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The record companies and promoters would be drooling at the prospect of being able to keep more of an artist's gross than they already do and I think the artist deserves
They would be included in the “ maximum wage”. Limiting profits could be a way to lower the costs. Why does everything get more and more expensive?
 

Mrs.Anteater

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Of course, this is utopian thinking. It would mean that people would actual feel they have enough.
 

Mendalla

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They would be included in the “ maximum wage”. Limiting profits could be a way to lower the costs. Why does everything get more and more expensive?
But corporate profits and personal wages are two very different issues. Personally, rather than limits on either, I would just use taxation. For personal income, some kind of negative income tax (people below a certain level get money, people above it pay taxes on rising scale). For profits, a minimum corporate tax with as few loopholes as possible. And, again, a rising scale so that huge national and multinational companies pay more (significantly more) on the dollar than small local or regional businesses.
 
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In the "normal" world, you make a bit of money here, a bit there. You cobble together a "living".
Yep. Because i need to survive and i wouldn’t if i didn’t. Part of the reason I don’t make make more is I won’t sell my soul to work in an exploitative workplace to make that money...whether the job is exploiting me personally, or whether its ultimately about exploiting other people to make someone rich. I feel like I already did sell some of my soul, and when I realized it, I couldn’t go back to it. When that is scrutinized there are very few ethical jobs left that I can do.
 

BetteTheRed

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A child of mine sells "shooters" in a bar. She'd prefer to play the guitar for them.
 

Luce NDs

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Playing the guitar for shooters is indeed a spiritually rewarding use of talent.
Barring the shots in the dark that may be suggested in the beginning of Genesis ... but such dark activities is how life starts when one may be hampered by lack of rest in the closed bedrooms of the land ...

Yet there are stoics that will be critical of going*son in the Shadows ... people are cranked by dark powers of "nothing like it"! Dotterings!

May be blackout of just whitewash ... as you cannot have darkness without light of seeing and not positives without the negative absenteeism ... abstract or denied deficiency as corners are cut to make rounds?
 

Ritafee

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There are people who have the “gift of making money for society”
Ezekiel: The upright man is law-abiding and honest…He never charges usury on loans, takes no interest, abstains from evil…
Usury is always the main cause of economic collapse. Usury is the root cause of business cycles…of rapid expansion and rapid contraction…of Bull and Bear Markets…and always guarantees the concentration of wealth and mammon in the hands of a few.
 
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Ezekiel: The upright man is law-abiding and honest…He never charges usury on loans, takes no interest, abstains from evil…
Usury is always the main cause of economic collapse. Usury is the root cause of business cycles…of rapid expansion and rapid contraction…of Bull and Bear Markets…and always guarantees the concentration of wealth and mammon in the hands of a few.
I just repeated what Pinga said. That was her phrase.
 
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Can you be a Christian and listen to heavy hitting rock n’ roll like this? I’m stunned at how talented they are. They aren’t rich and famous.

 
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