Can You Be Rich and Be a Christian?

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revjohn

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Jesus said that it would be easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven. I take that to mean difficult but not impossible. The scriptures present a multifaceted view of richness, and how people live in it. Job is wealthy. God proclaims him righteous before Satan and the host of heaven assembled. A young ruler has done everything required of him by the law save for giving his money to the poor. Does the young ruler go away sad because he keeps trying to give it away unsuccessfully or because it is something he cannot bring himself to let go of?

I think we create problems when we automatically equate wealth with God's favour as if the state of our bank account is directly proportionate to God's love for us. A parable of storing grain and building a bigger barn cuts that belief off at the knees without suggesting for a moment that the problem was the actual wealth and not the devotion to it.

What if money is given to us as any gift that is given by the Holy Spirit? That would mean it is meant to be used not hoarded all to one's self. Making a profit is something that Jesus suggests is commended (Parable of the Talents) though it is interesting to note that the benefactor of that profit is not the servant who succeeds. The money was their master's and the profit goes to their master, their reward is increased responsibility not a fat wallet of their own.
 

BetteTheRed

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Well, only because it's not impossible to make a needle with an eye big enough for a camel to fit through.
Well, except that it wouldn't be a "needle", which has a function that can't be fulfilled if the eye is big enough to fit a camel through. I'm more and more liking the "eye of the needle" gate theory we've mentioned a couple of times.
 

revjohn

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Well, only because it's not impossible to make a needle with an eye big enough for a camel to fit through.
Misplaced literalism aside that is the point.

Not impossible.

How likely?

Depends on a lot of things.

Creating a bigger needle, finding a smaller camel, unloading a pack animal and shlepping stuff yourself.

Not impossible doesn't equate to easy.
 

revjohn

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Well, except that it wouldn't be a "needle", which has a function that can't be fulfilled if the eye is big enough to fit a camel through. I'm more and more liking the "eye of the needle" gate theory we've mentioned a couple of times.
A more sensible read of the text.
 

ninjafaery

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So another possible image is a mountain pass. That makes sense too. What keeps me pondering is that these locations would need to be commonly referred to, relatively local and well-known in popular culture, otherwise the teaching wouldn't be effective. There needed to be some underlying awareness of what Jesus meant by "camel" and "needle" as forgone conclusion. Where is the teaching being held?
 

unsafe

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I say
What spiritually makes sense of the eye of the needle is anyone can get into heaven if they follow the Narrow Gate which the eye of the needle represents ---who is Jesus --------the rich ---the poor ----the beggar ------- and anyone else who is willing to follow and obey and receive the narrow way's protocol will not be turned away ------the rich man turned and chose the Wide Gate--and rejected the Narrow -Gate-------the rich man may have had a camel himself as many rich people had camels ---just maybe Jesus used the camel as the rich man would have identified with that ----there is only one narrow gate that leads to God's kingdom ----Jesus is it according to the Scriptures -----


Matthew 7:13-14
New International Verse

The Narrow and Wide Gates

13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

I say ----Many today know of the Narrow gate ---road ----but they Reject it by their own choice like the the rich man did ------the rich man said --I have done all the things I was suppose to do ---but my Camel i will keep thanks anyway ---bye--bye

Isn't that how many feel today ----I did all I was suppose to --I served in the soup kitchen ---I served my neighbour ---I went to church every Sunday ------I never hurt anyone --I have been a good person ---etc --etc so I deserve to enter God's kingdom -----without Jesus -----
 

jimkenney12

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I believe Jesus used wild exaggerations to make his points. In this parable the point is that it is extremely difficult for wealthy people to put their relationship with the Holy ahead of their wealth. The last line in his conversation with the disciples says it all. For humans it is impossible but all things are possible with God.
 

unsafe

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jimkenney12 ---posted ---Matthew 19 verse 26 -----

Matthew 19:26 (NIV)
26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Important to keep in mind I say ---

So what is Jesus saying here Spiritually ---is the question ------You need to know what was said before this sentence to make sense of it ----and you need to know that Jesus came under the Laws --613 of them and the laws had to be kept to be Blessed ----and no person could keep all the laws ----no one could be saved by obeying the laws ------Jesus came to fulfil all the laws ---and bring in a New Covenant ----this scripture below is addressing being saved by and through Jesus -----


So these are the verses before verse 26 ---

With God All Things Are Possible
23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, Who then can be saved?”

26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

27 Then Peter answered and said to Him, “See, we have left all and followed You. Therefore what shall we have?”


I say ----just to clarify ----

So we see the Disciples are asking ---Who then can be saved?” -----and then they say we have left everything to follow Jesus so they are perplexed as to what they will have ---

the scripture ----
28 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife[e] or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.


I say ----so we see in verse 28 ---Jesus is answering the question asked by Peter ----- at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne,

So this piece of the sentence -----For humans it is impossible but all things are possible with God.

Jesus saying here ------for humans to be saved by themselves is impossible --but WITH God salvation is possible -----
 

Waterfall

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I say
What spiritually makes sense of the eye of the needle is anyone can get into heaven if they follow the Narrow Gate which the eye of the needle represents ---who is Jesus --------the rich ---the poor ----the beggar ------- and anyone else who is willing to follow and obey and receive the narrow way's protocol will not be turned away ------the rich man turned and chose the Wide Gate--and rejected the Narrow -Gate-------the rich man may have had a camel himself as many rich people had camels ---just maybe Jesus used the camel as the rich man would have identified with that ----there is only one narrow gate that leads to God's kingdom ----Jesus is it according to the Scriptures -----


Matthew 7:13-14
New International Verse

The Narrow and Wide Gates

13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

I say ----Many today know of the Narrow gate ---road ----but they Reject it by their own choice like the the rich man did ------the rich man said --I have done all the things I was suppose to do ---but my Camel i will keep thanks anyway ---bye--bye

Isn't that how many feel today ----I did all I was suppose to --I served in the soup kitchen ---I served my neighbour ---I went to church every Sunday ------I never hurt anyone --I have been a good person ---etc --etc so I deserve to enter God's kingdom -----without Jesus -----
Do you think it is the person Jesus we take with us through the eye of the needle or that we should have been following his teachings to get through?
In other words is it the words of Jesus or the man we adore?
 

unsafe

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Waterfall ---
Jesus is using the eye of a needle as a metaphor for a narrow way to the Kingdom of God ---

-Jesus is the narrow gate through which all people must enter the Kingdom of God -------the scripture this verse is taken from ----Matthew 19 ---the verses !6-30 are about being saved ----that is the context of these verses -----Salvation comes through Jesus -----many refuse the narrow way and try to get into the Kingdom by the wide gate -----and the scripture says the wide gate leads only to disaster -----read Matthew 7:13-14 -----The Narrow and Wide Gates
 

Waterfall

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Waterfall ---
Jesus is using the eye of a needle as a metaphor for a narrow way to the Kingdom of God ---

-Jesus is the narrow gate through which all people must enter the Kingdom of God -------the scripture this verse is taken from ----Matthew 19 ---the verses !6-30 are about being saved ----that is the context of these verses -----Salvation comes through Jesus -----many refuse the narrow way and try to get into the Kingdom by the wide gate -----and the scripture says the wide gate leads only to disaster -----read Matthew 7:13-14 -----The Narrow and Wide Gates
I assume Jesus is now in heaven and all three parts of the trinity are all put back together again?
And what we are left with are God's words?
 

unsafe

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Jesus said this ------Jesus is speaking here Folks
John 14:6 (ERV)
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. The only way to the Father is through me.

the way is narrow---- what does this word mean in the Greek

HELPS Word-studies
4728 stenós – properly, narrow; (figuratively) the closely-defined path God ordains to travel on to gain His approval (used three times in the NT).
 

unsafe

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Waterfall -----you said ----
I assume Jesus is now in heaven and all three parts of the trinity are all put back together again?
And what we are left with are God's words?

I say ---and who is the word -----The Word became Flesh ------So if Jesus is alive today -----then the Words Live -----they are alive and active -----as Jesus is the Word -----Jesus is the word and the word is truth ----So God's words are True and active today because Jesus is alive and active today -----

John 1 (AMP)
The Deity of Jesus Christ
1 In the beginning [before all time] was the Word ([a]Christ), and the Word was with God, and [b]the Word was God Himself
 

Luce NDs

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Even Jeremiah Johnson worked the passes ... those on high points will not condescend into a hole ... except in unethical and denied operations!

Thus the FUBAR ... an ate expression if you can swallow it!
 

unsafe

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I say ---Well said ----2 video one 7 mins --one 8 min ---both saying the same thing ------worth the listen --for those interested ----

Can You Be Rich and Be a Christian?




 

Luce NDs

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I say ---Well said ----2 video one 7 mins --one 8 min ---both saying the same thing ------worth the listen --for those interested ----

Can You Be Rich and Be a Christian?




Do they have this rite left to eM? Thus the tome to the dead to the world ... a grand narrative ... Tom-at-us, or tomatos?
 
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