Can You Be Rich and Be a Christian?

[Seeler]

Back to the opening paragraph:

Rich and/or Christian – isn't that like comparing apples and oranges? (I am assuming here that rich means rich in material goods; and that Christian means to be a follower of the Way of Jesus.)

Following the way would involve the following Jesus's teachings and example: love one another, give healing to the sick, be a friend to the friendless, share what you have among the poor and disadvantaged – widows and orphans, welcome the stranger, challenge those who would oppress others, even if it means breaking the Sabbath, or worshiping the Roman rulers. I think from my own reading of the Scriptures and various thelogians,
That Jesus and many of his followers were poor, day labourers, sharecroppers, or fishermen overburdened with high taxes to the Romans and tithes to the temple. But also we are told that others with more wealth were also among his followers. Nicodemus, Joseph of Armethia come to mind. Some women followers gave support, and I get the feeling that Lazarus, Martha and Mary were quite comfortable in their home.

I don't think being rich or poor defines being a Christian. I believe that more important than how much wealth you have is how you obtain that wealth, and how you use it. If through good luck of where and when you were born, hard work, chance, skill and ability bring wealth – more power to you. On the other hand, if you obtain your wealth through avoiding taxes, exploiting your workers, crushing your opponents, destroying the very world we live in through pollution and exploitation – then your wealth is ill-gotten.

The other part of the equation is how you use the wealth and Jesus tells many parables to reinforce his teachings that wealth should be shared. Don't be built bigger barns to store your wealth. Don't live a lavish lifestyle while the poor are starving at your gates. Don't try to show your entitlement by sitting in the best seats – they may be intended for someone else.

John the Baptist advice: if you have two coats, give one to whoever has no coat.

Paul's advice: work to provide for yourself, and have a little extra to share with those who are unable to do so.

 

[Luce NDs]

Rich physically vs wisdom wealth ... the latter being a delicate essence that can be offset by powerful emotional flashes that cause irrationality and loss of the alternate essence!

Some scales may be required for balancing the fish! Eire bladder ...

 

[GeoFee]

Yet, Solomon is considered an ultimate wise person in Jewish literature.

Don't you, sometimes, George, wish to rest back into the arms of an ultimate "benevolent dictator"?

My hope is for the eclipse of Capitalism by Socialism; as understood by folk like Leo Tolstoy. During their Exodus journey the folk gathered manna each morning. The text states that none had too much and none had too little. In the apostolic community all were in it together. The text states that no one considered anything as their own.

 

[GeoFee]

p.s. I will recall that Capitalist propaganda focused on demonizing socialism, which they called communism.

 

[Mendalla]

Don't be built bigger barns to store your wealth.

Define what the metaphor "bigger barn" refers to. Why is the wealth being stored? I would argue that if the "bigger barn" is a pension plan and the wealth is being stored against future needs, then it is quite legit to build a "bigger barn". Our social safety net provides a minimal life at best. In a big city with escalating property values, it probably does not even accomplish that. Lose your job, retire, have medical needs beyond those which our system can provide, and you need your own safety net. I would, in fact, argue that if you can afford to save, it is irresponsible not to; to yourself and to society.

Now, if we are talking building a bigger barn simply to show people how big your barn is, then that's a problem. I am with you that far. But storing wealth in and of itself is not a problem. In fact, I would be prepared to argue that done within reason, it is a necessity and a responsibility.

 

[unsafe]

GeoFee said:
it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.

What does this text say to you?

I say GeoFee -----this means that the camel has a better chance of going through the narrow way to eternal life--why---- because the camel shows respect and love for his master and does not have any possessions that control him --the camel relies on his master and is loyal to his master ----and therefore realizes Jesus who represents the eye of the needle is the narrow way and only way to receive eternal life -----the Heart of the Camel was in the right place

Loyal camel walks alone for seven days to find former owners ...
www.dailymail.co.uk › news › article-8521203 › Loyal...
Jul 14, 2020 - Heart-warming footage shows the camel finally returning to its former owners ... Thirsty for love: Loyal camel walks in the desert alone for seven days to find ... 'Homesick' camel walks more than 62 miles to find its former owner.


The man who LOVES HIS MONEY and Possessions more than he Loves his master --is controlled by his selfish worldly desires and is relying on his love for his stuff ----the stuff controls him ---therefore he cannot love both his stuff and God at the same time -----and therefore until the man realizes that Jesus is the narrow way to eternal life he will continue to love his Money and his stuff and will be going down the path to eternal torment ---the heart of the man with the stuff was in the wrong place ----but Jesus still loves the man even though he chose to reject him -and Jesus in his end will love the man in his choice to go to his eternal death ----that is separated from God forever ---


Now GeoFee we know how you want to interpret this ------The rich will never get into heaven ----they need to go and sell all their stuff and be in total lack and live in poverty ---

Well Abraham was very rich there GeoFee and God made him the Father of many nations -----so did God tell Abraham to go and sell all he had before He made him the Father of many Nations ---NO ----God had no problem with Abraham's wealth and God had no problem with Soloman having wealth ---He make Him a King ---God had no problem with King Davids wealth either --no where does it ever say God said --you can't have any wealth ----

As a matter of fact Gods says this -------
DEUTERONOMY 8:18
KJ21
But thou shalt remember the Lord thy God; for it is He that giveth thee power to get wealth, that He may establish His covenant which He swore unto thy fathers, as it is this day.

So show me in Scripture where Jesus ever says the you cannot have money or material stuff to get into Heaven ---Jesus clearly says ---you can't serve 2 masters ---and the LOVE for money is evil ----not money itself ---but our LOVE for the money ------

Matthew 6:24 (KJV)
24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

and this -----

1 Timothy 6:10 (KJV)
10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.


Money----- people is an essential commodity in this world to survive -----and anyone who thinks that God wants you to be broke ans homeless and in lack is being duped by Satan the god of this world ----God created His money to be used in a proper manner -----and His word gives us the how to use His Money and how to be Good Stewards over what money He gives us the ability to make -----Money is Satan's Hook in this world ----Greed comes from our Sin Nature wanting more than we need -----

The Do's and Don't of God's money --------I say Number 15 below is very --very important for we humans to to get ----read all at link below

(15) Stewardship of money and study of Scriptures go hand in hand—as do business trips and worship services.


Wealthy People in the New Testament

Wealthy People in the New Testament | Bible.org

Most of Jesus followers were not wealthy, but a few notable ones, like Joseph of Arimathea (v. 57), were. We can learn a great deal from the wealthy people recorded in the New Testament, about the dangers and the disciplines of money.

bible.org

We can learn a great deal from the wealthy people recorded in the New Testament, about the dangers and the disciplines of money.

Person	What They Did With Their Wealth	Lessons to Be Learned
Zacchaeus the tax collector (Luke 19:110)	Before faith, cheated citizens and abused the poor. After faith, repented and made restitution.	(1) Ill gotten gain must be repaid. (2) God saves and changes us—all the way down to our pocketbooks.
Joseph of Arimathea (Matt. 27:56-61; Mark 15:42-46; Luke 23:50-53)	Pre-paid his own funeral Donated his tomb for the burial of Jesus	(3) Forsaking treasures on earth for the kingdom will be rewarded
Women supporters of Christ (Luke 8:3; 23:55-24:10; Mark 15:40; 16:1)	Supported Jesus’ work Assisted in His burial (probably donated expensive perfume).	(4) Generosity characterizes those who follow Jesus.
Roman centurion who believed. (Matt. 8:5-13; Luke 7:5)	Showed kindness toward the Jews. Paid for the building of a synagogue. Showed compassion for his ill servant.	(5) When we love people it shows in the things we do and the projects we support.
Rich young ruler (Matt. 19:16-30; Mark 10:17-31; Luke 18:18-30	Unwilling to part with his wealth when tested by Jesus	(6) Those who cling to wealth have difficulty getting into the kingdom. (7) Righteousness cannot be earned, but must be received as a gift. (8) “Many who are first will be last, and the last first.”
Philemon (Philemon 1)	Owned slaves and other property. Forgave a runaway slave, both morally and financially.
Joseph, called Barnabas (Acts 4:36-37)	Sold land and gave the proceeds to believers.	(10) Partnership in the Gospel may mean putting your money where believers hurt.
Ananias & Sapphira (Acts 5:1-11)	Sold land and tried to deceive the church about the proceeds to gain a reputation	(11) God is not fooled by gracious appearances but sees the heart and acts accordingly.
Rich Christians written about by James (James 2)	Exploited the tendency of some to cater to them because of their wealth. Dragged other believers into court and slandered Jesus’ name.	(12) God favors those who are rich in faith; they will inherit the kingdom.
Lydia (Acts 16:13-15, 40)	Hosted the first church in Europe in her home.	(13) We should use our resources and homes to accomplish God’s purposes.
Cornelius the Centurion (Acts 10:1-48)	Generous to the poor. Sought out Peter concerning the faith.	(14) Fear of God should prompt us to admit our own need for a Savior.
The Ethiopian Treasurer (Acts 8:26-40	Nurtured his belief in God by traveling to Jerusalem. Invited Philip to explain more about the faith.	(15) Stewardship of money and study of Scriptures go hand in hand—as do business trips and worship services.
Simon the Sorcerer (Acts 8:9-25)	Longed for spiritual power and thought it could be bought and sold.	(16) The gifts of God cannot be bought.

Your checkbook is a diary of your values. God calls believers to be compassionate, merciful, and just to all. Does your checkbook reflect such values?


I say again ---Money is Gods and it is how use view and use God'a money ------People of this world will abuse it -----People of God should use it Rightly ------to help others and advance His Kingdom -----

 

[unsafe]

this is what Got Questions says about retirement saving

Question: "What does the Bible say about saving for retirement?"

Answer: The Bible does not specifically mention saving for retirement, per se, and it doesn’t mention 401(k) plans, IRAs, or the like. However, the Bible does speak of saving money, and it gives us clear principles to guide us in whether Christians should save for retirement.

The issues of retirement and investment in stocks have been addressed in separate articles. This article will focus primarily on the issue of whether Christians should save money for perceived future needs, such as when no longer generating income.

The Bible speaks positively about providing for oneself financially through work. In 2 Thessalonians 3, Paul gives a warning against idleness. He reminds the Thessalonians of how he and his companions worked to provide for themselves while serving the church, despite the fact that they had a right to receive monetary support from the church. In verse 10 Paul says the rule is that “the one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.” It seems, then, that we are responsible to provide financially for ourselves when possible. The question becomes whether we should save money during our working years in order to provide for ourselves during our retirement years, when we are unable to generate income.

The book of Proverbs has many admonitions that promote saving money and other resources. Proverbs 21:20 says, “The wise store up choice food and olive oil, but fools gulp theirs down.” Proverbs 6:6–8 uses an insect as an illustration of the need to save: “Go to the ant, you sluggard; consider its ways and be wise! It has no commander, no overseer or ruler, yet it stores its provisions in summer and gathers its food at harvest.”

Recognizing a future need and making provisions for it today is a biblically wise thing to do. Financial stewardship now, including saving for retirement, can enable us to better serve others later. We see Joseph exemplify the wisdom of saving in Genesis 41 when he stored provisions for the prophesied famine to come. We could even say that God’s command to the Israelites to gather enough manna on the sixth day to provide for both Friday and Saturday is a form of saving for a future need (see Exodus 16). Of course, “some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather it, but they found none” (verse 27). In their failure to plan ahead and save, they went hungry.

On the other side, we have passages like Matthew 6:25–34 in which Jesus encourages us not to be worried for tomorrow or to seek after the things of the world. Later, Jesus tells the parable of the rich fool, who had such an abundance of crops that he planned to build a larger barn to store up provisions for himself so that he could “say to [himself], ‘You have plenty of grain laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry’” (Luke 12:19). “But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?’” (verse 20). Jesus concludes with this application: “This is how it will be with whoever stores up things for themselves but is not rich toward God” (verse 21). The issue in both passages seems to be one of heart. Jesus is not speaking against saving now for needs in the future. What He is talking about is where our hearts should be focused. We are to value the things that God values, trust in His provision instead of our own wealth, and also live wisely.

Christians are wise to examine their current spending patterns and their perceived future financial needs. When considering how to save for retirement, it is good to pray over the matter, search the Scriptures on the appropriate use of money, and meet with a financial adviser. Saving is wise, and trusting God is wise. As we save for retirement, we recognize that the goal is not a selfish enjoyment of a lavish life after years of work. The goal is not even self-sufficiency, since our dependence is always on God. The goal is to exercise godly wisdom in providing for our needs in future years and having enough to continue giving to others. Our trust is not in government programs or 401(k)s or individual retirement accounts. Our hearts are set on things above, where our true treasure is. Ultimately, our money belongs to God and is directed for His purposes.

 

[unsafe]

Seeler ---you said ----I don't think being rich or poor defines being a Christian. I believe that more important than how much wealth you have is how you obtain that wealth, and how you use it

I say ---Love this and agree ------so good for you for posting this --------

 

[GeoFee]

Well Abraham was very rich there GeoFee

Did Abraham use riches to serve himself? Or did his household grow as his resources increased?

 

[unsafe]

GeoFee ----you quoted ------this -----

“To whom much is given much is required.”

“A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?" "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good -- except God alone. You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.'" "All these I have kept since I was a boy," he said. When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was a man of great wealth. Jesus looked at him and said, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."


Now I say -----here is my problem with your quoting this ------YOU always say to me that quoting scripture does nothing for you ----you says the scripture is not God's word -----you say that anyone who worships scripture is committing adultery -----and yet you rely on it to twist and manipulate the scripture and use the scripture to further your cause ------so you tells others that you see scripture as idolatry -----yet you use it -----this absolutely makes no sense to me --

To me this shows you as a hypocrite ---you tell others not to rely on it yet you do yourself when it suits your need ----what a bunch of hooey is that ??????------

 

[unsafe]

GeoFee ----you said -----Did Abraham use riches to serve himself? Or did his household grow as his resources increased?

I say ---you are just grasping at straws here GeoFee cause you want to be right and you don't want the truth of the scriptures ---you want to make up your own Doctrine and tell people lies and that is the real truth behind your motive -----you are contributing to keeping people out on the streets with this poor --broke --busted ---type of theology that is not what the scriptures says about money -------

Jesus is the word --Jesus says this ------
John 10:10(AMP)
10 The thief comes only in order to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have and enjoy life, and have it in abundance [to the full, till it overflows]

So GeoFee lets look at this closer -----what does this really mean -----this is the meaning of the word abundance in this scripture ------

Strong's Concordance
perissos: abundant
Original Word: περισσός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective; Adverb
Transliteration: perissos
Phonetic Spelling: (per-is-sos')
Definition: abundant
Usage: more, greater, excessive, abundant, exceedingly, vehemently; noun: preeminence, advantage.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 4053 perissós (an adjective, derived from 4012 /perí, "all-around, excess") – properly all-around, "more than" ("abundantly"); beyond what is anticipated, exceeding expectation; "more abundant," going past the expected limit ("more than enough . . . "). See 4052 (perisseuō).

I say ----
And your teaching is all about greed and the big box retail stores that are non believers who are acting like they should act being duped by Satan who has his hook in Money issues and who is the god that non believers follow ----instead of focusing on using money the way God intended it to be used ------Greed is here to stay GeoFee ----Satan is still the god of this world -----and non believers will be LOVERS of MONEY -----they like their stuff more than God -----

 

[GeoFee]

I believe that more important than how much wealth you have is how you obtain that wealth, and how you use it

Full agreement on this point.

 

[unsafe]

GeoFee ----Just to clarify -------Seeler said that statement not me and she get the credit for your agreeing ----I also agreed with her statement -----

 

[GeoFee]

So there are some things we agree on! This offers a way forward.

 

[Seeler]

Define what the metaphor "bigger barn" refers to. Why is the wealth being stored? I would argue that if the "bigger barn" is a pension plan and the wealth is being stored against future needs, then it is quite legit to build a "bigger barn". Our social safety net provides a minimal life at best. In a big city with escalating property values, it probably does not even accomplish that. Lose your job, retire, have medical needs beyond those which our system can provide, and you need your own safety net. I would, in fact, argue that if you can afford to save, it is irresponsible not to; to yourself and to society.

Now, if we are talking building a bigger barn simply to show people how big your barn is, then that's a problem. I am with you that far. But storing wealth in and of itself is not a problem. In fact, I would be prepared to argue that done within reason, it is a necessity and a responsibility.

Sorry, Mandela. I guess I simply took for granted that people would be somewhat familiar with the parable I was thinking about. I seldom quote Scripture Word for Word when I am pondering my experiences with the Word over a lifetime . A quick check confirmed that I was thinking about Luke 12: 16 to 21. The parable of the rich fool.

Jesus tells us parable in response to a family quarrel over the sharing of an inheritance.
He tells of the rich man who fields produced bountifully – more than he had room to store. In thinking about what to do with this windfall, the rich man decides to build bigger barns to store it for his own pleasure now and in the future. I will eat, drink and be merry – no worries. And Jesus calls him a fool, who doesn't realize that he is about to die, and who then will enjoy the wealth?

This story is in a group of parables about wealth, including the parable of the rich man and Lazarus in which the rich man enjoys lavish comfort while the poor man is ignored and starving at the gate.



I don't think that this parable is read referring to saving for a rainy day, or to met modern day pension plans and RRSPs.

Rather I related back to the time of Jesus. It seems to me that many people pretty much lived day-to-day. Food crops were very perishable. Fish would spoil in a day without refrigeration unless dried and salted and even then it would not keep long. Dried grains, Properly stored, might last for a few years, they were deteriorate or be eaten by rodents. Therefore, very few people would be able to save much for their old age.

On the other hand, if they shared with one another, providing not only for themselves and their families before their neighbours and friends, and those less fortunate than themselves, they might find themselves relying on these connections when they are in need. The size of their family and the generosity of their acquaintances would be their life insurance for their old age.


At another time. Jesus told us not to worry about what should we would wear or what we would eat, but to consider the lilies of the field and the birds of the air, and trust in the goodness of God.

I think we have to take the stories with a grain of salt, considering the circumstances in which they were told, the culture of the day,

I don't think they mean that we shouldn't prepare for the future.

, I don't believe that we are working to bring about the kingdom of God. If we are hoarding great wealth while others are starving. The greater the Gap between rich and poor, the poorer we all are as a society.

 

[unsafe]

Mendalla ---you said ------In the Christian context, think back to the days when a rich person could make big donations to the church and get a special pew and name on a plaque and stuff (maybe it still happens). They probably even had a say in choosing the minister whether they were on the board and/or search committee or not.

I say ---This is exactly the wrong motive in giving for the person who says they are Christian ---just like the so Called Christians who give their weekly offering and Tithe to the Church and get a tax receipt -----or makes a donation to a charity they are giving to get back ---they are fore selling their giving in my view ----you are not really giving and trusting God to do what He promises in His word ---you are trusting the Government to give back to you on your tax return -

God says this and this is a promise from God Himself ----IT WILL BE given---is a promise and True Christians need to TRUST ---the Promise ------and give without getting a physical return slip --God knows the heart of the person Giving --it is very hard to Trust someone you can't see --and this is where true Faith in God come into play --that He will do what He says in His word ------if you give with the wrong motive ---you will block the Blessing of the promise ------We can say we have Faith that there is a God but not Trust in what He Promises to do for us -------and when God does bless the person ---they are to give it out to help someone else --not store it up for themselves -----it is giving to receive to help your neighbour ----that is how God works -His giving and receiving principle ---we can't out give God ever -----

Luke 6:38 NIV

38 Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”

 

[Mendalla]

-just like the so Called Christians who give their weekly offering and Tithe to the Church and get a tax receipt -----or makes a donation to a charity they are giving to get back ---they are fore selling their giving in my view ----you are not really giving and trusting God to do what He promises in His word ---you are trusting the Government to give back to you on your tax return -

Interesting how you and I sometimes think alike. So would you be okay with the tax credit for donations to religious institutions being eliminated? I have certainly heard the idea mooted, mostly by atheists but also by religious people uncomfortable with the rules CRA imposes on organizations that register for the charitable credit.

 

[unsafe]

Mendalla -----you said ----So would you be okay with the tax credit for donations to religious institutions being eliminated?

I say ----just for me and the way I believe -----it should be eliminated ---I have been approached about getting an envelope for the tithe and offerings in my Church so I could get some back on my income tax--- I refused the offer as where I am at in my walk with Christ I trust God fully in His way and follow the promise and I can tell you that it works as God says and I have been able to help others as a result -----but here is the thing ----The Religious institutions are Human driven not God driven and --the Church needs money to stay alive and therefore ----by offering the tax return they would get more and probably bigger donations than they would by stopping it ---

You have to be maturing in your walk with Christ in Faith and Trust to rely on an unseen God to manifest His promise of actually giving back what He sees fit to you in return and there are not a lot of people I don't believe that are interested in spending the time to put their faith and trust into the right action and give without the receipt -which give a guarantee of return ----

And the biggest thing is ---this is shunned upon as far as preaching and teaching is concerned in the church ------the teaching and preaching of staying money-less is teaching people to just rely on the Government for there giving -to get a return -----in my view

That said it does take nerve for a True Christian to walk in that right Faith and step out and Trust that God will do as He promises ----and it takes the True Christian fulfilling their part in giving to someone in need the return that God Blesses the person with and not keeping for themselves -----I know for myself --it was nervy to give out my first Tithe to the church --many years ago when I decided to take a leap of Faith and Trust in that promise---but once you step out and you see the results your nerviness disappears and your trust and confidence in God's promises increases that has been my experience -----

Giving with the right attitude is key ----this gives the do and don't for giving -----it takes Faith and Trust in the word -----and big courage to put that Faith in the right action and step out on it and Trust that --IT WILL BE DONE -----The Word---Jesus ---- is alive and active today --- stepping out on that takes courage -----you give because you Agape God not your money -----


2 Corinthians 9:6-9 NIV

Generosity Encouraged
6 Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously.

7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

8 And God is able to bless you abundantly, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. 9 As it is written:

“They have freely scattered their gifts to the poor;
their righteousness endures forever.”[a]

 

[GeoFee]

Hi unsafe. We are here to converse in a respectful manner. Each shares a point of view. Each has opportunity to refine their own point of view by noticing truth in the other’s perspective. This conversation goes off track when it becomes competitive; with persons insisting that their perspective is right and all others are wrong. We are one body with many members. Each bringing benefit for the well being of the whole. That said let me quote a past post of yours:

“here is my problem with your quoting this ------YOU always say to me that quoting scripture does nothing for you ----you says the scripture is not God's word -----you say that anyone who worships scripture is committing adultery -----and yet you rely on it to twist and manipulate the scripture and use the scripture to further your cause ------so you tells others that you see scripture as idolatry -----yet you use it -----this absolutely makes no sense to me --“ unsafe

Walking along the way together we have opportunity to share the love of God. This while sharing our insights regarding scripture and its relevance to our personal and shared life. The one life of God which is in us all.

I have valued scripture for all of my life. I quote with you but in general I simply para-phrase from memory. I do take it that the worship of any graven image is idolatry. I dwell in the presence of our living God. That presence leads me forward along the path I am called to follow.

I am happy to walk the second mile with you. My hope is that one day you will stop accusing others. Just as Jesus forgave those who put him on the cross. I also hope that one day we will be able to converse as neighbours and not as accusers.

I use scripture as a source of insight and encouragement. I do not worship it.

George

 

[unsafe]

GeoFee ----ya --ya same old sayings here GeoFee ----

My hope is that one day you will stop accusing others. Just as Jesus forgave those who put him on the cross. I also hope that one day we will be able to converse as neighbours and not as accusers.

Like Your accusing me here ---and judging me as well I might add ---OH how easy it is GeoFee-------you should really take your own advice -----and stop accusing and judging as well ---