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Waterfall said:
Our local health department still mandates that the screening only involves asking people if they've recently visited China......they are not asking about any recent travel to other global "hotspots"....it's time they updated these questions IMO.
They are to use sanitizer on entrance.
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????

They are supposed to be using the list provided by the Feds. We have updated our screening document at least three times recently because of changes in that list.
 
I use cleaning vinegar. It is great for dissolving scale, as it has a higher concentration of acetic acid. Just less water in it than normal vinegar.
I haven't seen any information regarding different cleaners and the virus. In biohazard safety training it was emphasized - which is the best disinfectant to use (usually discussing spilling a bacterial culture or somethings of that nature) - the one that works.
For cleaning say a bathroom that someone with COVID-19 used, I would want to use a product like bleach or lysol. Peroxide is good too, but loses it's effectiveness faster. Fine for buying now, just don't use something that's been sitting around especially if opened for a while. I wouldn't rely on vinegar or essential oils without further information.

At home where no one has COVID-19? Cleaning a surface is good enough. Just don't spray and let dry, actually clean.

For hand sanitizer, minimum 60% alcohol is recommended. 70% is common. Even for my supplies, the antiseptic cleaning wipes are 70% IPA even if it's a dual product. More doesn't equate to better either for sanitizing. In the lab, 70% ethanol is commonly used to spray everything, dip a petri dish spreader in before flaming, etc. We take the time to dilute the ethanol when it comes more concentrated.
 
Mendalla said:
????

They are supposed to be using the list provided by the Feds. We have updated our screening document at least three times recently because of changes in that list.
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Yeah, no kidding.....I had a friendly argument with the person at the door about this.
 
Waterfall said:
Our local health department still mandates that the screening only involves asking people if they've recently visited China......they are not asking about any recent travel to other global "hotspots"....it's time they updated these questions IMO.
They are to use sanitizer on entrance.
Click to expand...
That's weird, I felt like things were slightly delayed when the memo I saw here mid-ish Feb hadn't included Iran yet. That came shortly after.
 
ChemGal said:
That's weird, I felt like things were slightly delayed when the memo I saw here mid-ish Feb hadn't included Iran yet. That came shortly after.
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Yes weird is right.....although, I think it may have been the nurse(actually the DOC) at the nursing home door that may have been ill informed.....but she continued to insist that this was what the local health department mandated.
 
Our hospital has had hand sanitizer at the entrances for several years. I noticed the last time I was there that hardly anyone used it.

A FB friend has been posting about a trip he was taking - US to UK and on to Iceland. Lots of lovely shots in London and Oxford. He shared his total puzzlement about 'cautionary procedures'. Leaving the US - no problem. Arriving in London he was asked where he had been. Arriving in Iceland he was screened. Leaving Iceland he was stopped for a check up three times. Arriving in the US - no warning notices, no screening of any type. It was just - off the plane and out to his pal's car in the parking lot.
 
Waterfall said:
Yes weird is right.....although, I think it may have been the nurse(actually the DOC) at the nursing home door that may have been ill informed.....but she continued to insist that this was what the local health department mandated.
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If you would ever be back at the same place, I would go to the provincial healhcare site as well as health canada and pull off the info - save to a phone or something.
 
Waterfall said:
Should DNR patients be sent to hospitals or put on respirators IYO?
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Here, we have a goals of care document (think I have the name right). It's not as simple as DNR.
What does the patient want for care?
Are we talking about with hospitals current status or as they are getting more overwhelmed?
What could be done for them at home?
 
ChemGal said:
Here, we have a goals of care document (think I have the name right). It's not as simple as DNR.
What does the patient want for care?
Are we talking about with hospitals current status or as they are getting more overwhelmed?
What could be done for them at home?
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I've seen people say they want no heroic measures just comfort measures no matter what....but still sent to hospital....others have more specific requests. I could see doctors using the DNR if it came down to a choice who gets a respirator....good time to review with the elderly or POA maybe.
 
I have a university student roommate I rarely see. We're at opposite ends of the house. We seem to use the kitchen at different times. She's tidy but I don't know how much she disinfects the counters etc. I'm giving the bathroom an extra once over, door handles, and the kitchen counters (she always forgets to wipe the stove and microwave.) I washed the dishes in the drying rack again with soap and water and vinegar (no dishwasher to sterilize them.)
 
I just bought a bottle of 99% isopropyl alcohol. The last one. I had a choice between 70% and 99% and I went for the stronger one. Now, how do I dilute it? (If I put it in a spray bottle with just over 2/3 alcohol, and just under 1/3 water, will that work? I have a small purse sized spray bottle, I was thinking I could just mix it with water. Why aloe gel( I am the only person I know allergic to aloe gel, but I have Vit E gel). I can use that to wipe counters, toilet seats, etc., too.
 
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
I just bought a bottle of 99% isopropyl alcohol. The last one. I had a choice between 70% and 99% and I went for the stronger one. Now, how do I dilute it? (If I put it in a spray bottle with just over 2/3 alcohol, and just under 1/3 water, will that work? I have a small purse sized spray bottle, I was thinking I could just mix it with water. Why aloe gel( I am the only person I know allergic to aloe gel, but I have Vit E gel). I can use that to wipe counters, toilet seats, etc., too.
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This is being discussed on the UCC facebook page right now too.
The point of the gel is to slow evaporation. Longer contact time = more killing germs/inactivating viruses. I do use alcohol pads though prior to injections (but I also wash hands) and the contact time can be minimal. There's the actual wiping effect though, so there's the friction aspect of cleaning too. There's a good post that was shared on facebook:
Unicorn Chemist said:
Hand Sanitizer and the chemist... I'm tired and obviously those in back aren't getting it.

This chemist is annoyed and perplexed at the crazy homemade hand sanitizer formulations circulating the globe like a dangerous wildfire. I have been in the business of new product development for over 20 years, and one thing I wish is that people would stop circulating or sending me DIY hand sanitizer formulations to “check over”. Not one of them has passed my basic standard of requirement.

Here are some basics required to make an effective sanitizer:
1) Improved contact time for alcohol to work and ideal concentration for mitigation.
a. Alcohol requires contact time, depending on the microbe minimum required contact time of 1 minute may need to be achieved. We know that even simple microbes require time to get the alcohol inside to denature the protein within studies show 20 seconds when blended with other known antimicrobial agents like Benzalkonium Chloride (notice I did not say tea tree essential oil).
b. Ethyl Alcohol is generally preferred and 60-90% is generally considered safe and effective (notice, I did not say 100%). When you start to get over 95% alcohol content studies show that microbes can limit the ability of the alcohol to denature the protein within. I really don’t care why, I’m a chemist and that is biology.
2) Do not burden the sanitizer with ingredients that add a burden.
a. Ingredients like Aloe and homemade plant extracts add a microbial burden. If you have amazing proof it doesn't forward it to me.
b. Finished products like Aloe Gel that are not properly handled potentially add a microbial burden.
3) Do not make unsubstantiated claims
a. Statements that have not be substantiated with testing such as “kill COVID 19” need to be tested.
b. Hand Sanitizer in the US is a drug and requires a Drug Facts Box. These products need to be tested for identity and content.
4) Don’t burn the babies. This is the number one rule of formulations, and I am dead serious about this. Do not, I repeat do not burn the babies.
a. Essential oils in uncontrolled % risk harmful skin interactions
b. Essential oils in combination with materials that they do not readily mix with such as alcohol and water create a non-homogeneous solution that can again cause harmful skin interactions.
c. Repeated use of ingredients like alcohol dry out the skins’ acid barrier which in turn causes irritation that can actually increase the risk of microbial fiesta (this is my favorite description of infection).
So how does a REAL chemist formulate hand sanitizer?
We use polymers to help increase contact time and help reduce trans epidermal water loss (TEWL). These polymers are largely synthetic (carbomers, vinyl acrylates, etc.). But you are wanting them to be sustainably sourced natural agents? Sorry, they aren’t. We have tried Guar, and Xanthan but they just don’t go pass the rigors of testing like the synthetic polymers do.
I’ve read some DIY blogs saying these polymers are emulsifiers- no they are not. They are rheology modifiers. They have these amazing traits that thicken and create what we call rheology. Yes, they make things thicker but its more complicated than that.
In addition to thickening, some of them can lay down a microfilm and improve contact time of the disinfectant used as well as reduce the subjects TEWL.
In order for these polymers to work, first we hydrate them and then neutralize them. Most people don’t have the materials at home to mix a polymer for extended periods of time and then use a pH meter to optimize the effect. Yes, there are some rapid polymers (I personally like one by 3V Sigma called Rapid EZ), but most DIYer’s don’t have access to these.
In addition to the polymer, sometimes we add a humectant to help draw moisture to the skin or a pleasant fragrance (which we add a solubilizer, so it doesn’t separate over time).
Before this magic is released for sale, we run a bunch of testing.
1) Stability to satisfy the FDA’s monograph on hand sanitizer (yes there are rules)
2) Microbial testing and challenge testing against a selection of organisms.
3) Identity and concentration testing on the actives used.
4) Human Repeat Insult Patch Test HRIPT. Verifying that their products do not cause irritation when repeatedly applied to human subjects over time.
Next time you see one of those DIY formulations recommending vodka and aloe with some essential oils, think for a minute.
1) Do you really think you are at a minimum of 60% alcohol content when you complete making the formulation?
2) Are you using someone else’s aloe gel that you know nothing about the microbial activity or preservative efficacy on?
3) Are you confident that the essential oils you drop in won’t cause an unintended skin reaction?
4) Do you have a solubilizer to keep this whole thing together?
5) And finally, are you willing to keep this concoction wet on your hands for a minute while it works?
Last thing I know someone out there is just itching to ask… But don’t essential oils have antimicrobial properties? I have never found essential oils diluted properly to be skin safe improved a preservative efficacy test. Just like I have never found that adding some red raspberry seed oil to a properly formulated sunscreen added any SPF factor via real testing.
Can you believe we follow up these claims with REAL testing? We don’t just look at something and say- it looks great! We generally shy away from confrontation of the EWG, fearmongering, and DIY crowd because its not worth our breath to try to change anyone’s mind.
Enjoy your life and let the chemists formulate your products to the best of the science they understand intimately.
FYI: The FDA has come out with emergency guidance. They are apparently as annoyed as I am. Please note the rules and who it applies to.
https://www.fda.gov/…/policy-temporary-compounding-certain-…
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https://www.fda.gov/regulatory-info...msHJT9_-SXlWs4_2AS90FoLLJq_XD0r_HWthKbeTMV99Y
 
A good addition to soap and water cleaning: surgical scrub brushes. I've always had a stash of them, because I have sensitive skin, often broken and prone to infection. They're made of nylon, easy on skin, but get under nails, etc., without too much pain, if skin is compromised.
 
ChemGal said:
This is being discussed on the UCC facebook page right now too.
The point of the gel is to slow evaporation. Longer contact time = more killing germs/inactivating viruses. I do use alcohol pads though prior to injections (but I also wash hands) and the contact time can be minimal. There's the actual wiping effect though, so there's the friction aspect of cleaning too. There's a good post that was shared on facebook:
Policy for Compounding of Certain Alcohol-Based Hand Sanitizer Product
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Ya but how do you make something that does an ok job if not perfect - something a lot better than nothing? And what about a counter/ toilet seat/ door handle spray?
 
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