Bible Study Thread: Luke
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Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
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There was a gag running somewhere about "cheesemakers" being an inclusive metaphor for all producers of dairy products.
What about those descended from cheesemakers? Does it pass down the line?
unsafe
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Todays scripture
Luke 12:35-48 GW
The Son of Man Will Return When You Least Expect Him
35 “Be ready for action, and have your lamps burning. 36 Be like servants waiting to open the door at their master’s knock when he returns from a wedding. 37 Blessed are those servants whom the master finds awake when he comes. I can guarantee this truth: He will change his clothes, make them sit down at the table, and serve them. 38 They will be blessed if he comes in the middle of the night or toward morning and finds them awake.
39 “Of course, you realize that if the homeowner had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let him break into his house. 40 Be ready, because the Son of Man will return when you least expect him.”
41 Peter asked, “Lord, did you use this illustration just for us or for everyone?”
unsafe says ---verses 35-40 are telling us to be ready for Christ return as we no not when it will happen -----we are to have moved all hindrances out of the way and let the candle of the Lord be burning always so we are ready to leave this word when the time comes -----
unsafe posting here ----I found this piece of commentary on this piece of scripture and it says it so well I am posting it ------
Luke 12:35-40 by ----John W. Ritenbaugh
These strong warnings and encouragements apply only to one small and unique group of very special people who are blessed and valuable to God above all on earth (Malachi 3:16-17). They are special and valuable not because they are great, talented, and accomplished in this world, but because God has called them, covered them with the priceless blood of Jesus Christ, and made them His regenerated children.
42 The Lord asked, “Who, then, is the faithful, skilled manager that the master will put in charge of giving the other servants their share of food at the right time? 43 That servant will be blessed if his master finds him doing this job when he comes. 44 I can guarantee this truth: He will put that servant in charge of all his property. 45 On the other hand, that servant may think that his master is taking a long time to come home. The servant may begin to beat the other servants and to eat, drink, and get drunk. 46 His master will return at an unexpected time. Then his master will punish him severely and assign him a place with unfaithful people.
47 “The servant who knew what his master wanted but didn’t get ready to do it will receive a hard beating. 48 But the servant who didn’t know what his master wanted and did things for which he deserved punishment will receive a light beating. A lot will be expected from everyone who has been given a lot. More will be demanded from everyone who has been entrusted with a lot.
unsafe says ----verses 41-48 ---is about the responsibilities of the steward while the master is gone ----the duty is to give the servants their share of food at the right time ----this is about preparation and faithfully continuing the service of duty ---- Paul's outline of the responsibilities of the church leaders come to my mind here -----Ephesians 4
Ephesians 4:11-13 EXB
11 And ·Christ gave gifts to people—he made some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to go and tell the Good News, and some to have the work of caring for and teaching God’s people [L he himself gave apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors/shepherds, and teachers]. 12 ·Christ gave those gifts to prepare [L …to equip] God’s holy people for the work of serving, to make the body of Christ stronger. 13 This work must continue until we ·are all joined together in the same faith [or all reach unity in the faith] and in the same knowledge of the Son of God. We must become like ·a mature person [or the perfect Man; C Christ], ·growing until we become like Christ and have his perfection [L to the measure of the stature of Christ’s fullness].
unsafe says ---to continue---- we see that if the Stewart fails then the whole household is not functioning properly and abuse happens ---in verse 45 we see the Servant looses his focus on his duties and falls into serving himself --Stewards are to stay focused on serving faithfully and steadfastly in providing spiritual food for those in need till Jesus comes back -----the more responsibility the Stewart is given the more that is expected ------
Luke 12:35-48 GW
The Son of Man Will Return When You Least Expect Him
35 “Be ready for action, and have your lamps burning. 36 Be like servants waiting to open the door at their master’s knock when he returns from a wedding. 37 Blessed are those servants whom the master finds awake when he comes. I can guarantee this truth: He will change his clothes, make them sit down at the table, and serve them. 38 They will be blessed if he comes in the middle of the night or toward morning and finds them awake.
39 “Of course, you realize that if the homeowner had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let him break into his house. 40 Be ready, because the Son of Man will return when you least expect him.”
41 Peter asked, “Lord, did you use this illustration just for us or for everyone?”
unsafe says ---verses 35-40 are telling us to be ready for Christ return as we no not when it will happen -----we are to have moved all hindrances out of the way and let the candle of the Lord be burning always so we are ready to leave this word when the time comes -----
unsafe posting here ----I found this piece of commentary on this piece of scripture and it says it so well I am posting it ------
Luke 12:35-40 by ----John W. Ritenbaugh
These strong warnings and encouragements apply only to one small and unique group of very special people who are blessed and valuable to God above all on earth (Malachi 3:16-17). They are special and valuable not because they are great, talented, and accomplished in this world, but because God has called them, covered them with the priceless blood of Jesus Christ, and made them His regenerated children.
42 The Lord asked, “Who, then, is the faithful, skilled manager that the master will put in charge of giving the other servants their share of food at the right time? 43 That servant will be blessed if his master finds him doing this job when he comes. 44 I can guarantee this truth: He will put that servant in charge of all his property. 45 On the other hand, that servant may think that his master is taking a long time to come home. The servant may begin to beat the other servants and to eat, drink, and get drunk. 46 His master will return at an unexpected time. Then his master will punish him severely and assign him a place with unfaithful people.
47 “The servant who knew what his master wanted but didn’t get ready to do it will receive a hard beating. 48 But the servant who didn’t know what his master wanted and did things for which he deserved punishment will receive a light beating. A lot will be expected from everyone who has been given a lot. More will be demanded from everyone who has been entrusted with a lot.
unsafe says ----verses 41-48 ---is about the responsibilities of the steward while the master is gone ----the duty is to give the servants their share of food at the right time ----this is about preparation and faithfully continuing the service of duty ---- Paul's outline of the responsibilities of the church leaders come to my mind here -----Ephesians 4
Ephesians 4:11-13 EXB
11 And ·Christ gave gifts to people—he made some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to go and tell the Good News, and some to have the work of caring for and teaching God’s people [L he himself gave apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors/shepherds, and teachers]. 12 ·Christ gave those gifts to prepare [L …to equip] God’s holy people for the work of serving, to make the body of Christ stronger. 13 This work must continue until we ·are all joined together in the same faith [or all reach unity in the faith] and in the same knowledge of the Son of God. We must become like ·a mature person [or the perfect Man; C Christ], ·growing until we become like Christ and have his perfection [L to the measure of the stature of Christ’s fullness].
unsafe says ---to continue---- we see that if the Stewart fails then the whole household is not functioning properly and abuse happens ---in verse 45 we see the Servant looses his focus on his duties and falls into serving himself --Stewards are to stay focused on serving faithfully and steadfastly in providing spiritual food for those in need till Jesus comes back -----the more responsibility the Stewart is given the more that is expected ------
Carolla
wondering & wandering
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I don't like the idea of beatings in the context of today's life. But I suppose in Jesus day, beatings (and stoning, and crucifixions too!) were a more common form of delivering punishment. To me the main point in the verse you mention is that when one knows what is expected & ignores it, this is a worse behaviour than if one does not know and behaves in the same way. So it's the knowing that differentiates how the behaviour is viewed. I'm not a big believer in punishment myself.
blackbelt1961
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you should find it offensive, Jesus used what was common in those days, to teach so the teachable could understand His message.
Jesus teaching, if you are in a position of authority over others ( Master), or like the Pharisees were (gods) over the people, and you are believers in the Creator and wish to do His will, then act like it and do it 24/7, don't just do it when you think Jesus is coming like a thief in the night just to save your skin , your being a hypocrite , and because those who know God and willfully are deceitful, their punishment will be greater than the ones who did not know God .
in order for Justice to prevail, there must be Judgment, Jesus has legal authority to do so in Heaven and earth
The message is, if you know and have a relationship with God, then do His will, regardless of where you find yourself in life, you belong to the Kingdom, God has given you that Gift through His Son, so as Jesus was an Ambassador to all of humanity, be an Ambassador to the people of the earth, whether they are free or slaves, rich or poor, black or white, regardless of one's position, be True to Gods will
blackbelt1961
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do you realize that we are still slaves today?, the wording may have changed, we have a few more rights, we have very good employers and very bad ones, same as in the old days, some very good masters and some very bad masters.
today some are able to quit their jobs from the bad employers, others under a heavy financial burden are not, but your still a slave to the system you live under.
paradox3
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Summary: Luke 12: 49 - 59
1. Jesus says He has come not to bring peace to the earth but division, even within families and households. He came to bring fire to the earth and He wishes it were already kindled. He has a baptism with which to be baptized and is under stress to get it completed.
2. Jesus calls out the hypocrites who can interpret the appearance of earth and sky but cannot interpret the present time.
3. Jesus asks, "Why do you not judge for yourselves what is right?" (v.57) When going before the magistrate with your accuser, make an effort to settle the case or you could wind up in prison. You will never get out until you have paid the very last penny.
1. Jesus says He has come not to bring peace to the earth but division, even within families and households. He came to bring fire to the earth and He wishes it were already kindled. He has a baptism with which to be baptized and is under stress to get it completed.
2. Jesus calls out the hypocrites who can interpret the appearance of earth and sky but cannot interpret the present time.
3. Jesus asks, "Why do you not judge for yourselves what is right?" (v.57) When going before the magistrate with your accuser, make an effort to settle the case or you could wind up in prison. You will never get out until you have paid the very last penny.
paradox3
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Reflection: Luke 12: 49 - 59
Sure sounds like Jesus is contemplating the end of days here. It seems to be coming soon and Jesus is frustrated He has not yet completed his missionary activities.
Is the magistrate a metaphor for God?
We still have the opportunity to judge for ourselves what is right and settle our scores, so to speak. I wonder how we are to do this? Reconciliation with others? Repentance before God? Something else?
Consequences will be dire if we do not do this correctly.
Sure sounds like Jesus is contemplating the end of days here. It seems to be coming soon and Jesus is frustrated He has not yet completed his missionary activities.
Is the magistrate a metaphor for God?
We still have the opportunity to judge for ourselves what is right and settle our scores, so to speak. I wonder how we are to do this? Reconciliation with others? Repentance before God? Something else?
Consequences will be dire if we do not do this correctly.
unsafe
Well-Known Member
Today's Scripture
Luke 12 :49-59 GW
Jesus Will Cause Conflict
49 “I have come to throw fire on the earth. I wish that it had already started! 50 I have a baptism to go through, and I will suffer until it is over.
51 “Do you think I came to bring peace to earth? No! I can guarantee that I came to bring nothing but division. 52 From now on a family of five will be divided. Three will be divided against two and two against three. 53 A father will be against his son and a son against his father. A mother will be against her daughter and a daughter against her mother. A mother-in-law will be against her daughter-in-law and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.”
Use Good Judgment
54 Jesus said to the crowds, “When you see a cloud coming up in the west, you immediately say, ‘There’s going to be a rainstorm,’ and it happens. 55 When you see a south wind blowing, you say, ‘It’s going to be hot,’ and that’s what happens. 56 You hypocrites! You can forecast the weather by judging the appearance of earth and sky. But for some reason you don’t know how to judge the time in which you’re living. 57 So why don’t you judge for yourselves what is right? 58 For instance, when an opponent brings you to court in front of a ruler, do your best to settle with him before you get there. Otherwise, he will drag you in front of a judge. The judge will hand you over to an officer who will throw you into prison. 59 I can guarantee that you won’t get out until you pay every penny of your fine.”
unsafe says ----Verses 49-53 --We see Jesus coming not to bring peace but conflict ------this of course is not Jesus intent when He came He didn't actually desire to cause conflict but what causes the conflict is the state of the human heart that would be against hearing truth -----it was actually the effect of His speaking truth that would unset the apple cart and cause division and strife between people -----
and we can witness what Bible truth does today on the God will not be mocked thread ------conflict and division and strife ------
This word fire in this scripture means in Greek ----
Strong's Concordance
pur: fire
Usage: fire; the heat of the sun, lightning; fig: strife, trials; the eternal fire.
Luke 12:49. Metaphorical expressions: , to snatch from danger of destruction
unsafe says --so we see fire here is meaning He came to save God's Creation from Eternal destruction ----the rest of the scripture explains itself -----
Verses 54-59 -----This scripture is to do with lack of Spiritual perception ----We are good at physical perception as in forecasting weather but have dull perception is other areas ----In the Old Testament they were given signs to perceive the Spiritual but they disregarded them were guilty of failing to discern them -----there were signs of the coming of the Messiah but they missed them altogether ----Their own conscience should have steered them in the right way of thinking by the enlightenment of the Word from the Old Testament so they could judge rightly that Jesus was in fact the Messiah they were waiting for ------they failed to really recognize the limited time they had to accept Jesus for who He was so they wouldn't end up in destruction in the end ------
unsafe says ---There are many today who are in the same thinking mode as the Pharisees and it will be on them in their end -----
Luke 12 :49-59 GW
Jesus Will Cause Conflict
49 “I have come to throw fire on the earth. I wish that it had already started! 50 I have a baptism to go through, and I will suffer until it is over.
51 “Do you think I came to bring peace to earth? No! I can guarantee that I came to bring nothing but division. 52 From now on a family of five will be divided. Three will be divided against two and two against three. 53 A father will be against his son and a son against his father. A mother will be against her daughter and a daughter against her mother. A mother-in-law will be against her daughter-in-law and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.”
Use Good Judgment
54 Jesus said to the crowds, “When you see a cloud coming up in the west, you immediately say, ‘There’s going to be a rainstorm,’ and it happens. 55 When you see a south wind blowing, you say, ‘It’s going to be hot,’ and that’s what happens. 56 You hypocrites! You can forecast the weather by judging the appearance of earth and sky. But for some reason you don’t know how to judge the time in which you’re living. 57 So why don’t you judge for yourselves what is right? 58 For instance, when an opponent brings you to court in front of a ruler, do your best to settle with him before you get there. Otherwise, he will drag you in front of a judge. The judge will hand you over to an officer who will throw you into prison. 59 I can guarantee that you won’t get out until you pay every penny of your fine.”
unsafe says ----Verses 49-53 --We see Jesus coming not to bring peace but conflict ------this of course is not Jesus intent when He came He didn't actually desire to cause conflict but what causes the conflict is the state of the human heart that would be against hearing truth -----it was actually the effect of His speaking truth that would unset the apple cart and cause division and strife between people -----
and we can witness what Bible truth does today on the God will not be mocked thread ------conflict and division and strife ------
This word fire in this scripture means in Greek ----
Strong's Concordance
pur: fire
Usage: fire; the heat of the sun, lightning; fig: strife, trials; the eternal fire.
Luke 12:49. Metaphorical expressions: , to snatch from danger of destruction
unsafe says --so we see fire here is meaning He came to save God's Creation from Eternal destruction ----the rest of the scripture explains itself -----
Verses 54-59 -----This scripture is to do with lack of Spiritual perception ----We are good at physical perception as in forecasting weather but have dull perception is other areas ----In the Old Testament they were given signs to perceive the Spiritual but they disregarded them were guilty of failing to discern them -----there were signs of the coming of the Messiah but they missed them altogether ----Their own conscience should have steered them in the right way of thinking by the enlightenment of the Word from the Old Testament so they could judge rightly that Jesus was in fact the Messiah they were waiting for ------they failed to really recognize the limited time they had to accept Jesus for who He was so they wouldn't end up in destruction in the end ------
unsafe says ---There are many today who are in the same thinking mode as the Pharisees and it will be on them in their end -----
paradox3
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Summary: Luke 13: 1 - 21
1. All will perish unless they repent.
2. Jesus tells the parable of the barren fig tree. The tree has not given fruit for three years and the owner of the vineyard instructs the gardener to cut it down. The gardener replies, "Let it alone for one more year, until I dig around it and put manure on it. If it bears fruit next year, well and good; but if not, you can cut it down."
3. Jesus heals a crippled woman on the Sabbath as He teaches in the synagogue. He is criticized by the leader of the synagogue for working on the Sabbath. Jesus answers, do you not give your ox and donkey water on the Sabbath? And ought not this woman (a daughter of Abraham) who has been in bondage by Satan for 18 years be set free on the Sabbath?
His opponents are put to shame and the crowds rejoice at the wonderful things Jesus is doing.
4. Jesus compares the kingdom of God to a mustard seed. After being sown in the garden, it grows into a tree and birds nest in its branches.
5. Jesus compares the kingdom of God to yeast, mixed in with three measures of flour until all of it was leavened.
1. All will perish unless they repent.
2. Jesus tells the parable of the barren fig tree. The tree has not given fruit for three years and the owner of the vineyard instructs the gardener to cut it down. The gardener replies, "Let it alone for one more year, until I dig around it and put manure on it. If it bears fruit next year, well and good; but if not, you can cut it down."
3. Jesus heals a crippled woman on the Sabbath as He teaches in the synagogue. He is criticized by the leader of the synagogue for working on the Sabbath. Jesus answers, do you not give your ox and donkey water on the Sabbath? And ought not this woman (a daughter of Abraham) who has been in bondage by Satan for 18 years be set free on the Sabbath?
His opponents are put to shame and the crowds rejoice at the wonderful things Jesus is doing.
4. Jesus compares the kingdom of God to a mustard seed. After being sown in the garden, it grows into a tree and birds nest in its branches.
5. Jesus compares the kingdom of God to yeast, mixed in with three measures of flour until all of it was leavened.
paradox3
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Reflection: Luke 13: 1 - 21
Here is another call to repentance, with the suggestion there is still time to make things right with God.
Interesting that there is another Sabbath healing as Jesus talks about the Kingdom of God. Does the gospel writer want us to contrast the righteous with the Pharisees once again?
The parables of the mustard seed and the yeast tell us the Kingdom will start small and grow. Are we meant to see Jesus as the mustard seed and the yeast, do you think?
Are we the birds nesting in the branches and the three measures of flour?
I am reminded of the hymn, It Only Takes a Spark. VU 289
Here is another call to repentance, with the suggestion there is still time to make things right with God.
Interesting that there is another Sabbath healing as Jesus talks about the Kingdom of God. Does the gospel writer want us to contrast the righteous with the Pharisees once again?
The parables of the mustard seed and the yeast tell us the Kingdom will start small and grow. Are we meant to see Jesus as the mustard seed and the yeast, do you think?
Are we the birds nesting in the branches and the three measures of flour?
I am reminded of the hymn, It Only Takes a Spark. VU 289
paradox3
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This interpretation of the text appeals to me very much.
OTOH I have been increasingly getting the impression Jesus is discussing end times when he mentions the kingdom.
But here is another take on it . . . Years ago Sylvia Dunstan (author of many hymns in VU) preached a sermon about eternal life. Jesus has come to give us eternal life, Sylvia said, now and forever.
Her point was that we are participants in eternal life here on earth. Eternal life includes the future but is not confined to the future.
It changes up today's text a bit if I look at it through this lens.
paradox3
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This idea of Sylvia's is captured in her hymn, Bless Now, O God, the Journey. VU 633
Here is verse 3:
Divine, Eternal Lover, you meet us on the road,
We wait for lands of promise where milk and honey flow.
But waiting not for places, you meet us all around.
Our covenant is written on roads, as faith is found.
There is a similar idea in her communion hymn, All Who Hunger. VU 460
Here is verse 1:
All who hunger, gather gladly, holy manna is our bread.
Come from wilderness and wandering. Here in truth we will be fed.
You that yearn for days of fullness, all around us is our food.
Taste and see the grace eternal. Taste and see that God is good.
Here is verse 3:
Divine, Eternal Lover, you meet us on the road,
We wait for lands of promise where milk and honey flow.
But waiting not for places, you meet us all around.
Our covenant is written on roads, as faith is found.
There is a similar idea in her communion hymn, All Who Hunger. VU 460
Here is verse 1:
All who hunger, gather gladly, holy manna is our bread.
Come from wilderness and wandering. Here in truth we will be fed.
You that yearn for days of fullness, all around us is our food.
Taste and see the grace eternal. Taste and see that God is good.
Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
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Historically speaking, Jesus preaching a literal end times, as he often seems to do, would be consistent with the sort of preaching you'd expect from an itinerant preacher-prophet. You get some in the Jewish prophets, too. Now, how literally they took their own prophecy is open for debate. I'm betting they took it quite literally in some sense (that there would be end time) but how they really interpreted their own, highly symbolic language in terms of what that end times was going to look like is another whole question. In the end, apocalyptic prophecy is almost always rather vague and open to interpretation, more poetry containing truth than hard truth.
One thing I note, though, is that it almost always comes in hard times (e.g. the prophets during the Exile and return, Jesus during the Roman occupation, John of Patmos writing Revelations during the persecution under Domitian) and if one reads it in terms of those times, it makes the most sense. So applying Occam's Razor and that they were speaking to and about what was happening and how they saw it playing it out, rather like modern economists trying to figure where the economy is headed by looking at interest rates and economic growth and market activity and so on, is probably more sensible than trying to apply their words to far future times and events.
One thing I note, though, is that it almost always comes in hard times (e.g. the prophets during the Exile and return, Jesus during the Roman occupation, John of Patmos writing Revelations during the persecution under Domitian) and if one reads it in terms of those times, it makes the most sense. So applying Occam's Razor and that they were speaking to and about what was happening and how they saw it playing it out, rather like modern economists trying to figure where the economy is headed by looking at interest rates and economic growth and market activity and so on, is probably more sensible than trying to apply their words to far future times and events.
Which is probably the true meaning of prophecy IMO.
For me these suggest you don't have to die to be ressurected into Gods Kingdom. Or rather its impossible for a dead person to be resurrected to God...do it while you are alive to ensure an eternal life.
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Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
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Agreed. Prophecy, in the end, is more about speaking truth than prediction. For instance, the Muslims don't talk about Mohammad making predictions, more about the way of submission to God that he espoused.
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