The women divide the plunder ?

[DaisyJane]

How is that even possible? Did you graduate in 1956?

Or he is so threatened by women in positions of leadership and authority that he actively avoided learning with women. I know the seminary he attended, and there are certainly women in positions of authority and academic leadership.

 

[Northwind]

I think that's a good theory @DaisyJane, very plausible. It's sad really because education is best under some diversity

 

[Jaebius]

What are you saying here Jae ... do you know?

I'm more certain of what I'm saying here than I'm ever certain about any of your babbling.

 

[Northwind]

I'm more certain of what I'm saying here than I'm ever certain about any of your babbling.

And sometimes I'm more certain of Luce's words ......

 

[Jaebius]

Or he is so threatened by women in positions of leadership and authority that he actively avoided learning with women. I know the seminary he attended, and there are certainly women in positions of authority and academic leadership.

There are some excellent female professors there but I never had one. The closest I came was auditing a course that one taught. She seemed quite knowledgeable and insightful. My classmates, who were all taking her course for credit, were all well-pleased with her. I enjoyed being in her class while auditing.

 

[blackbelt1961]

There are some excellent female professors there but I never had one. The closest I came was auditing a course that one taught. She seemed quite knowledgeable and insightful. My classmates, who were all taking her course for credit, were all well-pleased with her. I enjoyed being in her class while auditing.

I dont know about you , But I have learned alot from my wife

take out the garbage
go cut the grass,
clean out the garage


even Batman had to learn

 

[Ritafee]

God made woman as a helper for man, women's subordination was set even before the Fall.
So the Fall was brought about, which, in its results, continues today. The woman's subordination is plainly shown, a fact which excludes her from being a pastor (minister, priest), where her office would give her dominion over the man.

Based on that ... Jesus did not come to fulfill the law? Jesus really has no significance whatsoever in the story if you have designated woman as less than even before 'the fall'. Nice ... we really have no where to go from there then do we? This has got to be the most ridiculous thing you have ever come up with ... I can understand fallibility in interpreting scriptures but to make the statement that Male was superior to Female right from the get go belies the rest of scripture in it's entirety does it not?

“The scriptures . . . offer an impressive number of examples of women exercising social or political authority without raising any questions as to the propriety of that authority.”
The Propriety of Bible Women with Authority | Marg Mowczko

I am thinking that 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 and 1 Timothy 2:12 had local and limited applications. They were about silencing women who were being disruptive and behaving badly. They were not meant to silence godly women. Paul valued godly, capable women ministers, and did not seem to think that any ministry was off limits to them. Neither did Jesus. What are we to make of that? And being that we are living in the present days what are we to make of this ...

In the last days ... Sons and Daughters will prophesy.

 

[Jaebius]

I dont know about you , But I have learned alot from my wife

take out the garbage
go cut the grass,
clean out the garage


even Batman had to learn

My wife has taught me many things. Many things. Not one of them had anything to with Batman.

 

[Redbaron]

So what is the difference, in your opinion, between inferiority and subordination?

Still waiting.....

 

[Jaebius]

Based on that ... Jesus did not come to fulfill the law? Jesus really has no significance whatsoever in the story if you have designated woman as less than even before 'the fall'. Nice ... we really have no where to go from there then do we? This has got to be the most ridiculous thing you have ever come up with ... I can understand fallibility in interpreting scriptures but to make the statement that Male was superior to Female right from the get go belies the rest of scripture in it's entirety does it not?

“The scriptures . . . offer an impressive number of examples of women exercising social or political authority without raising any questions as to the propriety of that authority.”
The Propriety of Bible Women with Authority | Marg Mowczko

I am thinking that 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 and 1 Timothy 2:12 had local and limited applications. They were about silencing women who were being disruptive and behaving badly. They were not meant to silence godly women. Paul valued godly, capable women ministers, and did not seem to think that any ministry was off limits to them. Neither did Jesus. What are we to make of that? And being that we are living in the present days what are we to make of this ...

You and others are putting words into my mouth. Please stop it. I did not say that men are superior to women. I did not say that men and women are not equal.

Complementarianism is not about equality. Men and women are equal. Absolutely equal. They simply have different roles to play. Women are not men, and men are not women, but the sexes are equal.

At any rate, I'm personally tired of this dialogue. There is so much more to talk about than this issue.

 

[Northwind]

If in fact men and women are absolutely equal then women can and should be senior pastors. What are the grounds for having women not being able to be senior pastors, and therefore having to answer to male superiors?

Also, if Adam and Eve are cited as one of the reasons for this, what was Jesus' role in fulfilling the law as per the question raised by @Ritafee above.

 

[DaisyJane]

I don't believe God wants women to be senior leaders in any denominations.

This isn't a suggestion that men ought to be superior to women? You might not see this as men being superior, but a whole lot of women just might.

 

[Jaebius]

Still waiting.....

Sorry. Subordination is about the roles people play. It does not mean that the person playing the subordinate role is unequal to (less equal than) the other person.

God the Son is subordinate to God the Father. That doesn't mean that God the Son is not equal to God the Father. They simply have different roles to play.

 

[Northwind]

As long as women cannot be senior pasters they are not absolutely equal and are subservient. I don't know how to make you understand that. You can babble all the incomprehensible babble you want @Jae . Your argument suggests that women have lesser value. Apparently since none of us is getting your point, you need to be clearer.

 

[Jaebius]

This isn't a suggestion that men ought to be superior to women?

Superior in role. Not superior as people.

 

[Northwind]

Definition of SUBORDINATE

Most notably: "placed in or occupying a lower class, rank, or position : INFERIORa subordinate officer"

 

[DaisyJane]

But yet we know that the roles people occupy are highly correlated to the positions they occupy in society and the value assigned. You simply cannot assign someone, women in this case, roles that are consistently less powerful and less valued than men's roles and suggest they are equal.

Your intellectual and theological gymnastics are impressive. It is sad that you use them to oppress people.

 

[Northwind]

Your intellectual and theological gymnastics are impressive. It is sad that you use them to oppress people.

Such is the way of toxic theology.....

 

[Jaebius]

Definition of SUBORDINATE

Most notably: "placed in or occupying a lower class, rank, or position : INFERIORa subordinate officer"

A different role to play - which does not mean inequality between men and women as persons.

 

[DaisyJane]

And yet often it does.