Is Ontario headed for another Wynne win?

[chansen]

But seriously, the party would have had the law on their side......innocence until proven guilty......unless they are asking to run a province where they think the legal system is flawed.

Put yourself in the shoes of the PC caucus members. If you support Brown, and it keeps getting worse, when do you get out? How do you explain it to the electorate?

There is evidence that Brown was with these women on those dates. The women shared the stories with relatives and close friends in the months after the events. These stories are not new.

If Patrick Brown is innocent, this sucks. But at the very least, he is known for going to bars and events frequented by young women who are drinking, and not drinking himself, well into his 30s. That's a huge lack of judgment. I remember seeing these types when I was in university, and they were creepy then. We didn't think much of it other than to make fun of their lame attempts at picking up 19-year-olds. But a politician doing this?

There is too much smoke here, and very little upside for the PC party sticking with Brown. There is a huge risk with backing him. Weigh it yourself. Would you make a clean break, or would you ride it out, knowing what is known?

 

[Luce NDs]

Put yourself in the shoes of the PC caucus members. If you support Brown, and it keeps getting worse, when do you get out? How do you explain it to the electorate?

There is evidence that Brown was with these women on those dates. The women shared the stories with relatives and close friends in the months after the events. These stories are not new.

If Patrick Brown is innocent, this sucks. But at the very least, he is known for going to bars and events frequented by young women who are drinking, and not drinking himself, well into his 30s. That's a huge lack of judgment. I remember seeing these types when I was in university, and they were creepy then. We didn't think much of it other than to make fun of their lame attempts at picking up 19-year-olds. But a politician doing this?

There is too much smoke here, and very little upside for the PC party sticking with Brown. There is a huge risk with backing him. Weigh it yourself. Would you make a clean break, or would you ride it out, knowing what is known?

And some people say I act crazy ... how else does one make an appearance to fit in to this odd social construct?

 

[Waterfall]

Put yourself in the shoes of the PC caucus members. If you support Brown, and it keeps getting worse, when do you get out? How do you explain it to the electorate?

There is evidence that Brown was with these women on those dates. The women shared the stories with relatives and close friends in the months after the events. These stories are not new.

If Patrick Brown is innocent, this sucks. But at the very least, he is known for going to bars and events frequented by young women who are drinking, and not drinking himself, well into his 30s. That's a huge lack of judgment. I remember seeing these types when I was in university, and they were creepy then. We didn't think much of it other than to make fun of their lame attempts at picking up 19-year-olds. But a politician doing this?

There is too much smoke here, and very little upside for the PC party sticking with Brown. There is a huge risk with backing him. Weigh it yourself. Would you make a clean break, or would you ride it out, knowing what is known?

I fully agree with the reasons why he cannot stay.....I should have made that clear.....I hope he has friends that will stand by him at the risk of their political future.....whether he's guilty or not.

 

[Mendalla]

hope he has friends that will stand by him at the risk of their political future

What he needs right now are friends outside politics. Real friends who can support him, not political "friends" whose friendship is largely based on shared political interests.

Frankly, were I in his shoes, even if I was innocent I'd have resigned my seat. Call it a day and take back my life. Trying to run for re-election with this hanging over my head would be waaaayyyyy too stressful. But, then again, that's probably why I'm not in politics to start with.

 

[chansen]

I worry that the pendulum has swung too far in the age of Metoo, and now any man accused is toxic. But there is too much here to ignore, and he I agree he really should not even run for his seat. He will be a distraction for the PCs. You know they are trying to get him to give that up as well.

The PC party was already in conflict over the platform shift away from so-con "values". I was worried that, once in power, they would return to faith-based policy. Now, I don't think anyone knows what to expect from them. They have to find a leader and define themselves. By June.

 

[Waterfall]

I worry that the pendulum has swung too far in the age of Metoo, and now any man accused is toxic.

Agree.

 

[revjohn]

But seriously, the party would have had the law on their side......innocence until proven guilty......unless they are asking to run a province where they think the legal system is flawed.

Unfortunately for the party the law casts no votes in the upcoming election. Heck, Roy Moore would have had more votes if the law had cast a vote for him being innocent.

And the party, here in Ontario as revsdd points out, has freedom that the GOP did not have in Alabama. It can refuse to support the Leader and politically the leader will be sunk. CTV broke the story last night and there was enough information contained in that story to put a tremendous stink on Brown.

Will it stick for the next five or six months? Sure it will, especially if he is still the leader of the Ontario PC's.

Time for Brown to take one for the team if it is really important to defeat the Liberals. Which is what the PC caucus thinks is most needed.

Who can they put up in the leader shaped hole they now have? No idea.

Brown will remain an MPP. Will he resign his seat before the next election? That probably depends on how the case builds in the next few months.

Part of what the PC's saw that convinced the caucus that this was the right strategy to take was social media record

 

[dreamerman]

What a mess. Get the leadership by selling memberships and branding yourself a social conservative, adopt popular Liberal policies for the official party platform to the chagrin of the so-cons, and now the architect of this mess is gone.

Where can they possibly go from here? No time for a convention. Imagine you're Christine Elliott. You turn off your phone, sit back, and let everything go to voicemail for the next 4 months.

Maybe they can call on Mike The Hammer Harris. Remember how well that worked.

 

[Mendalla]

Maybe they can call on Mike The Hammer Harris. Remember how well that worked.

Hey, he won two straight majorities. That's more than any PC leader since can boast.

 

[dreamerman]

Hey, he won two straight majorities. That's more than any PC leader since can boast.

 

[revsdd]

What he needs right now are friends outside politics. Real friends who can support him, not political "friends" whose friendship is largely based on shared political interests.

Frankly, were I in his shoes, even if I was innocent I'd have resigned my seat. Call it a day and take back my life. Trying to run for re-election with this hanging over my head would be waaaayyyyy too stressful. But, then again, that's probably why I'm not in politics to start with.

I'm not saying this to be mean to Patrick Brown - but I'm not sure he has any life or friends outside politics. He's been in politics (elected at the municipal, federal and now provincial levels) for his entire adult life. He probably has no clue what he would do if he weren't holding an elected office. He is the epitome of a professional politician.

 

[BetteTheRed]

And that has, in my mind, been a detriment to him both as a politician, and as a person. He has no adult knowledge of "making a living" other than via the public purse, yet he is a keen critic of it.

 

[Pinga]

Interesting listening to reporters today. They were interviewing Susan Joans and Steve Clark. Reporters indicated the rumours have been there for years with whispers in the halls.

 

[Waterfall]

Interesting listening to reporters today. They were interviewing Susan Joans and Steve Clark. Reporters indicated the rumours have been there for years with whispers in the halls.

Fortunately heresay is usually inadmissible in court.

 

[Pinga]

Understood, just was an interesting questioning of these two by repoeters

 

[Mendalla]

I'm not saying this to be mean to Patrick Brown - but I'm not sure he has any life or friends outside politics. He's been in politics (elected at the municipal, federal and now provincial levels) for his entire adult life. He probably has no clue what he would do if he weren't holding an elected office. He is the epitome of a professional politician.

And that shows a much bigger problem in our system. Some of the most successful politicians are just that - professional politicians. Few people from outside that increasingly isolated world have any interest in entering it anymore which means we are being run by those with an interest in perpetuating the system rather than the best and brightest who might actually have some new ideas and new ways of doing things.

/End cynical rant

 

[Ritafee]

What I am failing to understand from all of this is ...
successful politicians professional politicians we are being run by those with an interest in perpetuating the system rather than the best and brightest who might actually have some new ideas and new ways of doing thing no adult knowledge of "making a living" other than via the public purse he is a keen critic of it he's been in politics (elected at the municipal, federal and now provincial levels) for his entire adult life he probably has no clue what he would do if he weren't holding an elected office he is the epitome of a professional politician hey he won two straight majorities that's more than any PC leader since can boast
why are people still voting for and funding this charade ?

 

[Ritafee]

Interesting listening to reporters today. They were interviewing Susan Joans and Steve Clark. Reporters indicated the rumours have been there for years with whispers in the halls.

Ah yes ... Right to rumor and whisper for all good tax-payers about their oh so unnecessary naughty so called leaders.

 

[Luce NDs]

I'm not saying this to be mean to Patrick Brown - but I'm not sure he has any life or friends outside politics. He's been in politics (elected at the municipal, federal and now provincial levels) for his entire adult life. He probably has no clue what he would do if he weren't holding an elected office. He is the epitome of a professional politician.

The professional end of de St. IHC ? Phantom of the former ...

 

[BetteTheRed]

He's a lawyer, I think, but I think he has never practiced law. He's getting a bit long in the tooth to be starting up his own law firm, but not really attractive as a partner/employee because of his total lack of legal experience.