I also said I don't think it's the worst problem in the world. Considering how crowded the population is and lack of education there (more people in the world, far more, have died in conflict in the same time period)...although it is in the world of those who get it. It's horrible and should be stopped. The root problems are socio-political problems, not hard scientific ones.
Ebola Outbreak
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ChemGal
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You clearly said yes to answer a question. Then you mention quarantines and vaccines, never drugs besides the vaccines. You also said it's not the worst problem on earth. Here is how I interpreted your answer, which I think is pretty reasonable, based on your response:
Yes, I am against drugs like ZMapp as they are created with GE, putting animal genes into a plant. Ebola should be stopped with other methods like quarantines and vaccines. It's not the worse problem on earth, and the benefit of using drugs produced via GE isn't worth the risk.
That interpretation doesn't contradict anything else you were saying in that thread.
What was the word 'yes' referring to? How am I misrepresenting you when I went with what you said instead of guessing that opposite was the correct answer?
I said I am against putting fish genes in tomatoes. I don't know what the yes was referring to. I didn't know how zMapp was made then anyway. But since it's made with tobacco I don't care what they do with tobacco because you can't eat it - unless it infects other crops - that's something they need to really look out for if it's any risk.
ChemGal
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But you're accusing me of misrepresenting you and making a trick question? If you made a mistake, say so, don't start throwing accusations at me because you don't know what you mean.
You are really focused on Ebola and disease control so I should have answered more clearly for you. I was talking more generally to the discussion and didn't take that into full account. I'm sorry.
ChemGal
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@Kimmio thanks.
Sorry for going off topic.
Hopefully the spread will be stopped in Nigeria, right now they have manageable numbers, but it's slowly spreading:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/23/w...ases-of-ebola-stem-from-indirect-contact.html
Sorry for going off topic.
Hopefully the spread will be stopped in Nigeria, right now they have manageable numbers, but it's slowly spreading:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/23/w...ases-of-ebola-stem-from-indirect-contact.html
Mrs.Anteater
Just keep going....
This is an excellent question. Why does the world not care and traditionally hasn't cared about African countries? I have read this question years ago, considering the wars that were going on and the Aids epidemy.
My hunch is- African countries do not have any major resources in large quantities that are of interest for the western world. Insignificant re: oil or gas- maybe diamonds, in South Africa. Generally- mostly agriculture. And we can get coffee from other sources.
I mean, nobody cared about Hitler killing Jews until he actually became dangerous for the rest of the (western) world. It took years to get generic meds to treat AIDS that were affordable for 3rd world countries - because there was no business in it.Ebola will only be a good business, if they can experiment with the sick in Africa, develop a vaccine and then sell it to the West which is in fear of getting it. Best would be mass vaccinations like with the H1N1 .
T
That's where humanity began. At one time, lush and green. I read that it was agricultural industry during the Iron Age - iron smelting - that likely contributed to loss of rainforests (along with loss of livelihoods) - and then they've been plagued by multiple droughts. Where much of that dry land now is, there were lush jungles and bountiful farms.
(thinking of the amazing animals there - zebra's giraffes, beautiful wildcats, exotic birds, elephants - it must've been so beautiful. dangerous but beautiful.)
That's where humanity began. At one time, lush and green. I read that it was agricultural industry during the Iron Age - iron smelting - that likely contributed to loss of rainforests (along with loss of livelihoods) - and then they've been plagued by multiple droughts. Where much of that dry land now is, there were lush jungles and bountiful farms.
(thinking of the amazing animals there - zebra's giraffes, beautiful wildcats, exotic birds, elephants - it must've been so beautiful. dangerous but beautiful.)
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zebras, not zebra's
ChemGal
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Congo is now affected. It may be a second outbreak:
http://www.vox.com/2014/8/24/6063027/ebola-virus-found-in-the-democratic-republic-of-the-congo
Better link:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/25/ebola-outbreak-congo-confirms-disease-cases
Also includes info covered in the post below.
http://www.vox.com/2014/8/24/6063027/ebola-virus-found-in-the-democratic-republic-of-the-congo
Better link:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/25/ebola-outbreak-congo-confirms-disease-cases
Also includes info covered in the post below.
ChemGal
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Another doctor has died. He received ZMapp, as did a priest who later died. I think flying the Americans was the right choice for treating them.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/25/world/africa/ebola-outbreak/
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/25/world/africa/ebola-outbreak/
Rowan
Active Member
Reading some of the articles on the Ebola outbreak it seems like one of the biggest problems they are having is an inability to trace contacts. Infected persons are refusing to give info on who they have had physical contact with and even in cases where these contacts are reported there aren't enough medically trained people available to follow up with all of them.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/25/health/ebola-contact-tracing/index.html?hpt=he_c2
This article indicates that CDC investigators think they are missing between 40-60% of people who have come into contact a person with active, symptomatic Ebola mainly due to patients lying to them. About 10% of these people will likely develop Ebola themselves if I read the article right. Also of the 2000 or so contacts they know about they've only got the resources to follow up on about 200 of them.
It's like trying to fight a forest fire and having to leave hundreds of hotspots untouched and then having people wonder why the fire won't go away.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/25/health/ebola-contact-tracing/index.html?hpt=he_c2
This article indicates that CDC investigators think they are missing between 40-60% of people who have come into contact a person with active, symptomatic Ebola mainly due to patients lying to them. About 10% of these people will likely develop Ebola themselves if I read the article right. Also of the 2000 or so contacts they know about they've only got the resources to follow up on about 200 of them.
It's like trying to fight a forest fire and having to leave hundreds of hotspots untouched and then having people wonder why the fire won't go away.
Ritafee
Is Being Human
Meet the creator of the Ebola Vaccine ... Dr. Charles Arntzen
This is definitely not the guy you want joking around about mass culling the population with genetically engineered viruses.
Ebola treatment was developed by a leading bioengineering scientist from the University of Arizona who was caught on camera “joking” about wiping out humanity.
February 2, 2012, Dr. Charles Arntzen, head of The Biodesign Institute for Infectious Diseases and Vaccinology, responded to a question pertaining to whether feeding some eight billion people in the world was worth it, or whether population reduction should be pursued.
In response, Dr. Arntzen quipped:
“Has anybody seen ‘Contagion’? That’s the answer! Go out and use genetic engineering to create a better virus… 25 percent of the population is supposed to go in Contagion.”
“Is US health really the best in the world?” 106,000 people in America are killed every year by FDA-approved medical drugs." That’s a MILLION people per decade."-Dr. Barbara Starfield (Johns Hopkins School of Public Health)
Various labs have been working for decades to come up with drugs and vaccines to fight Ebola and its close cousin Marburg virus. They are both considered potential bioterrorism agents, which is what drives most of the U.S. government’s interest.
Defense Department spokeswoman Cmdr. Amy Derrick-Frost said Tuesday that it had a $10 million contract over three years for Mapp Biopharmaceuticals to develop ZMapp.
Back in April, the Department of Defense announced that it had deployed biological diagnostic systems to National Guard support teams across the U.S. in readiness for any potential Ebola outbreak.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has procedures in place to deal with such an outbreak backed by force of law.
The official CDC website details ‘Specific Laws and Regulations Governing the Control of Communicable Diseases’, under which even healthy citizens who show no symptoms of Ebola whatsoever would be forcibly quarantined at the behest of medical authorities.
“Quarantine is used to separate and restrict the movement of well persons who may have been exposed to a communicable disease to see if they become ill. These people may have been exposed to a disease and do not know it, or they may have the disease but do not show symptoms,” states the CDC (emphasis mine).
Such stringent regulations have led to fears that an outbreak of a dangerous communicable disease in the United States would lead to massive abuse of power by the federal government and the imposition of martial law.
The Common Sense Show’s Dave Hodges points out that the seriousness of the Ebola threat makes a mockery of the Obama administration’s current immigration policy.
This is definitely not the guy you want joking around about mass culling the population with genetically engineered viruses.
Ebola treatment was developed by a leading bioengineering scientist from the University of Arizona who was caught on camera “joking” about wiping out humanity.
February 2, 2012, Dr. Charles Arntzen, head of The Biodesign Institute for Infectious Diseases and Vaccinology, responded to a question pertaining to whether feeding some eight billion people in the world was worth it, or whether population reduction should be pursued.
In response, Dr. Arntzen quipped:
“Has anybody seen ‘Contagion’? That’s the answer! Go out and use genetic engineering to create a better virus… 25 percent of the population is supposed to go in Contagion.”
“Is US health really the best in the world?” 106,000 people in America are killed every year by FDA-approved medical drugs." That’s a MILLION people per decade."-Dr. Barbara Starfield (Johns Hopkins School of Public Health)
Various labs have been working for decades to come up with drugs and vaccines to fight Ebola and its close cousin Marburg virus. They are both considered potential bioterrorism agents, which is what drives most of the U.S. government’s interest.
Defense Department spokeswoman Cmdr. Amy Derrick-Frost said Tuesday that it had a $10 million contract over three years for Mapp Biopharmaceuticals to develop ZMapp.
Back in April, the Department of Defense announced that it had deployed biological diagnostic systems to National Guard support teams across the U.S. in readiness for any potential Ebola outbreak.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has procedures in place to deal with such an outbreak backed by force of law.
The official CDC website details ‘Specific Laws and Regulations Governing the Control of Communicable Diseases’, under which even healthy citizens who show no symptoms of Ebola whatsoever would be forcibly quarantined at the behest of medical authorities.
“Quarantine is used to separate and restrict the movement of well persons who may have been exposed to a communicable disease to see if they become ill. These people may have been exposed to a disease and do not know it, or they may have the disease but do not show symptoms,” states the CDC (emphasis mine).
Such stringent regulations have led to fears that an outbreak of a dangerous communicable disease in the United States would lead to massive abuse of power by the federal government and the imposition of martial law.
The Common Sense Show’s Dave Hodges points out that the seriousness of the Ebola threat makes a mockery of the Obama administration’s current immigration policy.
ChemGal
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@Rowan , it's the same attitude that lead to the ransacking of the Ebola treatment centre too. I feel frustrated for the people going over there to help, danger aside it's not something I would be able to deal with well.
@UnDefinitive I would need to see more of the (panel it looks like?) where the comments were made. Depending on the context, I don't think it's completely out of line. Dark humour has it's place IMO.
I'm somewhat aware of the quarantine laws, and I think they make sense although there is the potential for them to be abused. There are diseases that are more easily spread than Ebola. By the time someone shows symptoms, it can have already spread. People also panic and do things that put others at risk. It is this type of power that is one of that factors that helps prevent what we see going on in West Africa. As for the comment about whether or not the US health is the best in the world, most of the studies that focus on various factors show it is not. There is some good research going on in the US, but that's true of other countries as well and it isn't the only consideration when it comes to a nation's health.
@UnDefinitive I would need to see more of the (panel it looks like?) where the comments were made. Depending on the context, I don't think it's completely out of line. Dark humour has it's place IMO.
I'm somewhat aware of the quarantine laws, and I think they make sense although there is the potential for them to be abused. There are diseases that are more easily spread than Ebola. By the time someone shows symptoms, it can have already spread. People also panic and do things that put others at risk. It is this type of power that is one of that factors that helps prevent what we see going on in West Africa. As for the comment about whether or not the US health is the best in the world, most of the studies that focus on various factors show it is not. There is some good research going on in the US, but that's true of other countries as well and it isn't the only consideration when it comes to a nation's health.
Ritafee
Is Being Human
Dr. Jane Orient – DC Clothesline reports — one of Arizona’s top physicians as well as other researchers have been told by Border Patrol informants that as many as 100,000 migrants from unknown countries have been allowed into the United States under the same provisions that President Obama is presently admitting so-called “unaccompanied minors.” Many of these people come from the same region of the world as the uncontained outbreak of Ebola. As Dr. Orient said in her interview on The Common Sense Show, on June 30, 2014, “It is not a matter of if Ebola comes into the United States, but when.”
With so many of the "knowledgable" health care workers becoming infected and dying, they are now questioning whether they have been using the proper protective equipment and if they are properly taking off their protective gear. It would appear the method of transmission may need an update....IMHO.
Rowan
Active Member
Waterfall,
Many of the articles I have seen say that proper protective gear is in rather short supply. Even the basics like latex gloves and masks are not available to many health care workers in impacted countries. It doesn't matter how knowledgeable you are or how good your training in infection control is if you don't have the necessary equipment to maintain the protocols.
Many of the articles I have seen say that proper protective gear is in rather short supply. Even the basics like latex gloves and masks are not available to many health care workers in impacted countries. It doesn't matter how knowledgeable you are or how good your training in infection control is if you don't have the necessary equipment to maintain the protocols.
Rowan
Active Member
A couple of the reasons I think that Ebola is never going to become a major concern in a developed nation, in the sense that it won't spread even if a few isolated cases happen, is that in developed countries you are not going to have the same issues as they face in developing nations. In Canada (or the US or UK for example) there are fully equipped proper hospitals with wards that can be used for isolation, no real chance that medical workers will run out of gloves, masks, or those full-body suits and the likely-hood that an infected patient will lie about who s/he was in contact with is pretty slim so there would be no issues tracing/monitoring other potential infectees.