Works without faith is dead

[Luce NDs]

George, Then would you suggest a mortal being as base ... being what we know of the infinite and the lesser self (close to nothing, regarding knowledge) this extracted from biblical study. Yet smart hermeneutics will argue they're authorities ... and what is the axiom about authority and corruption ... thus the PEW! Foundational chit to stumble upon?

 

[unsafe]

Pr.Jae My Post was a general post giving my view on the 2 words used one by you and the one in the Video-and this was at the beginning of my post ----- This is my view on justification and surrender ----- If you took it as directed at you personally then you are wrong --then you say you accept my opinion and then ask based on what ---so you really don't accept my opinion then you go on and on -round the mountain -----then if I answer you will just come back with more about the same subject and we will just keep going nowhere ---Pointless in my opinion ---

So this is what I say to you -----

your opinion is your opinion ---I gave mine is all ----what I stated is what I believe -- you believe different --makes no difference to me ----We think different is all -----I will continue to believe what I believe and you will continue to believe what you believe --and this is what God says about people having different opinions about His word ---

This is great scripture to remind us all about difference of opinions and how we deal with them -----this is why I don't go round the mountain ---we should all take Heed to these scripture and put our faith into practice -----


2 Timothy 2:14-26Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
A Worker Who Pleases God

14 Keep on telling everyone these truths. And warn them before God not to argue about words. Such arguments don’t help anyone, and they ruin those who listen to them.

24 As a servant of the Lord, you must not argue. You must be kind to everyone.

Read all here ---https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Timothy 2:14-26&version=ERV

Titus 3Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

The Right Way to Live

9 Stay away from those who have foolish arguments, who talk about useless family histories, or who make trouble and fight about what the Law of Moses teaches. These things are useless and will not help anyone.

Read all here ---https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Titus+3

 

[Neo]

...
I can't speak to Sri Krishna. As far as Christ is concerned the miracles are acts of grace and never something the individual enacts upon the self.

Never said that they were. What I meant was that miracles from a Master can sometimes supercede a karma, an effect of a earlier cause, that an individual may be working out.

Works and beliefs function best as an integrated whole. Which is truer though? The action we take or the belief we speak?

If we are sincere in our motives and honest in our thoughts then hopefully they are one and the same.

The outcomes of the Residential schools program are not word games. The program did not intend to break anyone, it believed that participation would be best for all. After all one of the chief tenets of the liberalism which gave rise to the residential schools program was the fact that education is all anyone needs. And now despite best intentions look at the destruction that has been wrought. How is that a word game?

Because it's a neutral word, that's why. If used with things like "residential schools" then yes of course, it's a word that's paved many a road to hell. But if one's intent is pure, honest and powerful enough to bring about positive results then the word has a totally different meaning. You argue about the silliest things sometimes John.

Btw, I had forgotten the definition of the word "salvific" you used earlier and so I looked it up and found many definitions of it using the word "intent" in the description. i.e. "Salvific: Having the intention or power to bring about salvation or redemption".

Sorry, couldn't resist.. {smile}

You reject the notion of God as other. If there is no other then we must be God no? Or the goal is less being at one with and more about being the same as.

Yes, I believe there is no such thing as "other" in the Universe, at least in the absolute sense. "Everything belongs to the Lord", says the Teacher.

The difference, I believe, is our relative awareness that changes. I believe the only difference between someone like the Christ and someone like us (people in general and not necessarily "you and me") is that Christ "knows" and "is" One with the Father. We at best only "believe" we are.

But our beliefs can and do change with perspective and awareness.

At then end of 1968 the Apollo 8 astronauts were totally overwhelmed when their space ship came around from the dark side of the Moon and they saw, for the first time ever, this incredible image of the Earth as one planet. It seems to me that humanity as a whole learned an important lesson at that time. Unity is something very important to understand. Humanity, at it's highest level stands as One. And on an even larger turn of the wheel, Humanity, I believe, stands as One with God. We are, in effect, the Mind of God manifest on this planet.

Now image how the whole Solar System itself is working as integral whole, and then the whole Milky Way Galaxy, etc, etc. Everywhere we look, from the very, very small to the very, very large we see unity. Whether it's an atom, a molecule, a human being, a planet or a Star, the smaller always makes up something larger. We are literally part and parcel of something bigger. And "other", therefore, is an illusion due to perspective.

Imagine a deep pool of water on the top of a mountain. By stilling our desires, our thoughts and our actions we still the waters of our Being and we begin to reflect the Universe above us. We become "at one" and vibrationally "synchronized", thus allowing the Universe to work through us. In this way we sacrifice our lower needs for the greater to work through us. This is the law of Service.

To what end? What does vibrational synchronicity accomplish?

Awareness of the God we are part and parcel of.

Predestined and predetermined by whom?

God, because the end is always known from the beginning.

 

[Neo]

Hi Neo---This is your post.
Any system that puts the lower self ahead of the greater Self, the Christ Consciousness within is in my opinion destined to fail.


.QUOTE--Airclean
Perhaps this may help you understand The born again walk.

Serander All.Then Self becomes one with Jesus

Ok, I actually tried watching that video Airclean but honestly, gospel music just isn't my thing.

I think you misunderstand what I mean when I refer to the "greater Self". I am talking about the Soul Consciousness, which you may call the Christ Consciousness, or the "Christ in you, the hope and glory".

We human beings are really living in a house divided with our lower selves, our personal selves, divided against our higher Selves, the Soul.

Paul tried to describe this duality, this conflict, when he said "Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?”

The "body of this death" is the personal self, composed of the physical, emotional and lower mental aspects of our being.

Only by changing our focus from the lower to the higher will we ever find peace.

In these last few words I sum up practically everything I've tried to say here in the cafe: "only by changing our focus from the lower to the higher.."
For you, it is about surrendering to Jesus. For me it is about changing our focus. We are taking about the same thing.

 

[revjohn]

What I meant was that miracles from a Master can sometimes supercede a karma, an effect of a earlier cause, that an individual may be working out.

Why must it be a master? When is a good work truly a good work? If I feed the poor am I doing a good work or am I interfering in that person working out their own Karma? If I act, thinking to bring them relief and all I wind up accomplishing is delaying their Karmic progression how is that good?

If we are sincere in our motives and honest in our thoughts then hopefully they are one and the same.

If.

Because it's a neutral word, that's why. If used with things like "residential schools" then yes of course, it's a word that's paved many a road to hell. But if one's intent is pure, honest and powerful enough to bring about positive results then the word has a totally different meaning. You argue about the silliest things sometimes John.

I don't for a second believe that those who developed the residential school plan were monsters or that their intent was evil. I believe that the originators of the plan honestly believed that they were doing "good."

That it turned out a disaster doesn't prove that they were dishonest or evil.

It proves that they were wrong, ignorant about some very key sociological bits and that consequences are far reaching.

That might be silly in your worldview. Mine sees it as tragic. And, because of such tragedies I'm prone to examine what went wrong so such mistakes aren't repeated. Appealing to a No True Scotsman Fallacy is not a solution.

Btw, I had forgotten the definition of the word "salvific" you used earlier and so I looked it up and found many definitions of it using the word "intent" in the description. i.e. "Salvific: Having the intention or power to bring about salvation or redemption".

Sorry, couldn't resist.. {smile}

Unlike yourself I remember what the word means. I'm also am aware of the presence of "intent." Where God is the sole agent responsible for salvation (saved by grace) we are dealing with God's intent to save. Where God is not the sole agent responsible for salvation (saved by works) we are dealing, at least in part, with our intent to save ourselves. Such notions underestimate our predicament and overinflate our ability to do something about it. What results is nothing more than massive ego stroking.

Yes, I believe there is no such thing as "other" in the Universe, at least in the absolute sense. "Everything belongs to the Lord", says the Teacher.

Belongs to points to possessions and differentiates between owner and owned. Which is not problematic from where I sit. That is not, as far as I can tell, a desired end state from the Karmic dance. Eventually the owned and the owner are indistinguishable from one another and neither term applies. That isn't "Everything belonging to the Lord," that is "Everything is the Lord." I reject the latter notion obviously.

The difference, I believe, is our relative awareness that changes. I believe the only difference between someone like the Christ and someone like us (people in general and not necessarily "you and me") is that Christ "knows" and "is" One with the Father. We at best only "believe" we are.

Left as is I don't find this statement problematic. I'm not aware that you are content to leave this as it is. At best it represents the present and the future you envision is one in which all have the awareness you attribute to Christ.

But our beliefs can and do change with perspective and awareness.

Agreed and on the whole I tend to regard that as growth. I am not immediately convinced that the growth is necessarily for the common good.

It seems to me that humanity as a whole learned an important lesson at that time.

Learned and rejected at the same time. Myth of progress has shown that even when it can be proven that certain behaviours are destructive they are difficult to stop. Climate change? If we have all learned that lesson why is it that there are so many so reluctant to take the necessary action?

Unity is something very important to understand. Humanity, at it's highest level stands as One.

I would concur. In the meantime Humanity appears content to stand upon the weaker elements of the whole and will likely result in the whole falling as one if there is no intervention coming.

And on an even larger turn of the wheel, Humanity, I believe, stands as One with God. We are, in effect, the Mind of God manifest on this planet.

Well, we seem to be managing the destroyer of worlds aspect much faster than we are discovering or creating them.

Now image how the whole Solar System itself is working as integral whole, and then the whole Milky Way Galaxy, etc, etc. Everywhere we look, from the very, very small to the very, very large we see unity. Whether it's an atom, a molecule, a human being, a planet or a Star, the smaller always makes up something larger. We are literally part and parcel of something bigger. And "other", therefore, is an illusion due to perspective.

Or the failure to notice other is a delusion due to perspective.

 

[Luce NDs]

Greater sole singularity ... awareness of more than private, isolated, self ... sort of parallels Hermann's unified thingy ... alas few believe in parallel perspectives to see adepts ... purpose of life ... as yet beyond mortal? Is that out there or what?

 

[Luce NDs]

"IF" spinoff of the ephemeral nature ... bit flighty as passion and thought as they dance along?

"Salvic" like an unguent or a critter with hoofs disturbing the soil ... pig's cultivation nature? Without such creatures how would we find that fun-gai prized by Franks ? Approaches a toady stool that can delibe-rate truth an alternates ... the song of lyres cover up ... dissonant voices ...

Under natural rule of making something from nothing ... is there a'Moor to ID ... the other's IDe as desire to know? That rationale obviously beyond most mortals ... alas nothing's per fect!

 

[airclean33]

.

I think you misunderstand what I mean when I refer to the "greater Self". I am talking about the Soul Consciousness, which you may call the Christ Consciousness, or the "Christ in you, the hope and glory".

We human beings are really living in a house divided with our lower selves, our personal selves, divided against our higher Selves, the Soul.

Paul tried to describe this duality, this conflict, when he said "Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?”

The "body of this death" is the personal self, composed of the physical, emotional and lower mental aspects of our being.

Only by changing our focus from the lower to the higher will we ever find peace.

In these last few words I sum up practically everything I've tried to say here in the cafe: "only by changing our focus from the lower to the higher.."
For you, it is about surrendering to Jesus. For me it is about changing our focus. We are taking about the same thing.

Hi Neo--I was going to go over this line by line. But you know Neo your not that far off. I believe Our Lord ask us to give all. Meaning to follow His way.The early church was called those of The Way. That way Neo in my belief" is through Christ Jesus . He is The Way and again as I believe we are told . The only way. The word of GOD tells us, there are few who find it . For the path or road is narrow , but the road to Hell is wide and many are tricked into going down it. There is another man by name John . saying what I believe some what like I just posted.Really two Johns for one
Book of John 1: 6--9--
Jhn 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

Jhn 1:7 He came for testimony, to bear witness to the light, that all might believe through him.

Jhn 1:8 He was not the light, but came to bear witness to the light.

Jhn 1:9 The true light that enlightens every man was coming into the world.

Jhn 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world knew him not.

Jhn 1:11 He came to his own home, and his own people received him not.

Jhn 1:12 But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God;

Jhn 1:13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[dreamerman]

Two Johns for the price of one! Great now I really need to spend a penny.

 

[Neo]

Hi Neo--I was going to go over this line by line. But you know Neo your not that far off. I believe Our Lord ask us to give all. Meaning to follow His way.The early church was called those of The Way. That way Neo in my belief" is through Christ Jesus . He is The Way and again as I believe we are told . The only way. The word of GOD tells us, there are few who find it . For the path or road is narrow , but the road to Hell is wide and many are tricked into going down it. There is another man by name John . saying what I believe some what like I just posted.Really two Johns for one
Book of John 1: 6--9--
Jhn 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

Jhn 1:7 He came for testimony, to bear witness to the light, that all might believe through him.

Jhn 1:8 He was not the light, but came to bear witness to the light.

Jhn 1:9 The true light that enlightens every man was coming into the world.

Jhn 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world knew him not.

Jhn 1:11 He came to his own home, and his own people received him not.

Jhn 1:12 But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God;

Jhn 1:13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

The path is narrow because it runs right down the middle of the polar opposites Airclean. Know thyself. The 'wide path to hell', however, is allegorical.

And the "only" way could mean many things besides religious. It could very we'll be His way of saying that Soul Consciousness is the way to get closer to God. It is this Soul or Christ Consciousness which speaks from your heart of hearts. It is The Holy Voice within, The Voice of Silence.

 

[blackbelt1961]

The path is narrow because it runs right down the middle of the polar opposites Airclean. Know thyself. The 'wide path to hell', however, is allegorical.

your statement is illogical

good and evil are not opposites, to say they are opposite would give evil equal status , which would put humanity and God in eternal struggle.

And the "only" way could mean many things besides religious. It could very we'll be His way of saying that Soul Consciousness is the way to get closer to God. It is this Soul or Christ Consciousness which speaks from your heart of hearts. It is The Holy Voice within, The Voice of Silence.

it could also be, since your redefining Christ, could be that your wrong, so if we dont redefine Christ words, it does indicted your view is incorrect

 

[Luce NDs]

Still rendered by that boiling sensation that sin will bring you to "eL" an old light participle leading into an unknown word ... that's the O'logy ... the etude of everything ... rejected by people believing in their little righteous Ness .. a black pooling sensation ... of knowing near nothing ... thus we form the population ... them constructing the Shadow of doubts about what we know ... separate from the sharp ass-ess-ment! Put it to de quill and it'll be wrote (Rhode) silently into the future ... love of intellectual matter is like that ... takes off from here ... seldom seen and thus the conception of things "unseen" ... incarnate concept ... primal stewing? A missal in a caldron! Perhaps just Jaered to life as the booty of the joke ... satyr and Bacchus is deep in de cups ... clear, dark, grail of words, confined, there ... by copy right law ? Many have no just intent of being proper for the lesser populations ...

 

[airclean33]

Hi Neo---Look once more at these two verse.

Jhn 1:12 But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God;

Jhn 1:13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

I believe you will see it is not us who has the power. It is Jesus The Christ who gives us the power. It is by GODS will that we become His Children. You, We, me , Have very little to do with it.(We had are chance). We all failed only the man called Jesus , Who was The Christ made it.But as by one man the world was lost. So by one man , it was saved. All Glory is GODS. Now we have but to learn to walk with HIM. For the ways we lived was not His ways . We must learn to Love far more than we ever understood". For His Love is in all things". I believe God has given us that time to learn and understand His ways.We have but just stared ,are walk with Him.There is much to learn, I believe He will teach us all things. There is a verse in a Song I like , Goes something like . As we been there ten thousand years. Bright shinning as the sun . We"v no less days to sing GODS Praise than when we first begun.
What A Wonder"s GOD we Have.

 

[Luce NDs]

Hi Neo---Look once more at these two verse.

Jhn 1:12 But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God;

Jhn 1:13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

I believe you will see it is not us who has the power. It is Jesus The Christ who gives us the power. It is by GODS will that we become His Children. You, We, me , Have very little to do with it.(We had are chance). We all failed only the man called Jesus , Who was The Christ made it.But as by one man the world was lost. So by one man , it was saved. All Glory is GODS. Now we have but to learn to walk with HIM. For the ways we lived was not His ways . We must learn to Love far more than we ever understood". For His Love is in all things". I believe God has given us that time to learn and understand His ways.We have but just stared ,are walk with Him.There is much to learn, I believe He will teach us all things. There is a verse in a Song I like , Goes something like . As we been there ten thousand years. Bright shinning as the sun . We"v no less days to sing GODS Praise than when we first begun.
What A Wonder"s GOD we Have.

Does this sound like something out of the flesh ... like an energetic order of intellectual-emotions? OBI something out of this blind sense of not knowing --- Exodus 20:19 and the Genesis story on the tree of logic ... something for the dog maws ... as it runs in circles ... accomplishing nothing ... socially! Social medium is disposed and disassociated by those strictly spoken to by their hidden desires ...

 

[Luce NDs]

Such alien bloes ... kin dah make one think about the depth of satyr ... no ND tuem sort of like brainstorms coming from nowhere and then going down the authoritarian drains ... according to the rule of corruption at certain hehs ... warped or wend dead ethics? Then they're out of here ... into the other's IDes ... marching to Ur order ... you wait till you meet that greater one ... and you thought the great one had no mind ... de impulse comes at the NDiva another enigma ... life! The Din aerie inversion?

 

[Neo]

your statement is illogical

good and evil are not opposites, to say they are opposite would give evil equal status , which would put humanity and God in eternal struggle.

I believe my statement would be illogical if I believed that the reference to "good and evil", in the book of Genesis, were not representing the polar opposites of energy itself. This sinuous and serpent sine wave of both positive and negative tells me that polar opposites do exist, and I believe that early Mankind experienced and "took on" the challenge to wrestle these opposites down, using the discrimination of the mind to do so. We either turn right or we turn left, we look up or we look down. It's our choice.

 

[Jaebius]

View attachment 210

I always knew you were a Siner Neo! Repent!

 

[unsafe]

Here is a question ----Is God the Opposite of Satan ----God is Good Satan is evil -----

This is my view on this -----God created Satan they are both spirit beings ----the opposite of spiritual is unspiritual so Satan is not the opposite of God in my view ----so Good comes from God and Evil from Satan so since in the spiritual world God and Satan come from the same realm Good and Evil would not be opposites but one devoid from the other ----so evil is devoid of anything good ------

Just my opinion

 

[GeoFee]

The whole of my being consists in the harmony of polar opposites; every molecule an expressed balance of positively and negatively charged atomic entities.

Forgetting this I fall out of balance.

Remembering restores the balance.

We are in deep and deepening peril by our determination to domination of nature by the "restless striving of power after power which ceaseth only in death."

All because we have forgotten who we are in spirit and truth.

George

 

[Waterfall]

@anyone:
Do "born again", "enlightened" and "Christ conscious" mean the same thing?