Neo
Well-Known Member
In the religious sense, yes, faith would have to be conscious. In the psychological sense, we unconsciously use faith all the time.
Works without faith is dead
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Neo
Well-Known Member
Only the Calvinist would believe so.
Neo
Well-Known Member
Ok, only one who hangs onto Calvinists beliefs then.
The true aspirant walks the path to find out, a step beyond just believing, consciously of unconsciously.
Neo
Well-Known Member
The question was whether one could be saved with unconscious faith only, and the Calvinist believes that God has pre-chosen those who will be saved, while the rest of humanity, like seeds scattered to the dust, will never mature into God-Awareness because God has already picked His "family", e.g. those "in Christ", from the beginning.
Neo
Well-Known Member
Yes, you're right.
unsafe
Well-Known Member
This is just my view on Predestination
This is what I believe about this elect and predestination ----I do not believe that there are certain people elect that are predestined to salvation, but salvation is predestined for those who seek Christ who shed His Precious Blood to save all people -----
Ephesians 1:3-14New King James Version (NKJV)
Redemption in Christ
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence,9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself,10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both[a]which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him.11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,14 who[b]is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
If only certain people are the elect and predestined for Salvation ---then God would be a respecter of persons and this world make God who says Himself He is not a respecter of persons a liar -----and Jesus would not have had to shed His Blood for all to be saved ----If we seek Christ and accept Him we are an adopted Child of God and saved -----
Acts 10:34-36Amplified Bible (AMP)
34 And Peter opened his mouth and said: Most certainly and thoroughly I now perceive and understand that God shows no partiality and is no respecter of persons,
35 But in every nation he who venerates and has a reverential fear for God, treating Him with worshipful obedience and living uprightly, is acceptable to Him and[a]sure of being received and welcomed [by Him].
36 You know the contents of the message which He sent to Israel, announcing the good news (Gospel) of peace by Jesus Christ, Who is Lord of all—
In My Opinion
God had a plan and predestination for His creation to reconnect to Him was part of this plan ------He sent His only Son to die and set all people free who want to be free and reconnect with Him -----no one is special and hand picked ---God I would say knows who will accept His Son and who won't because God knows all things but I do not believe for one minute that God says I pick Peggy --- Susan ---Joe Blow Skipper ---Danny etc for salvation ----I also believe God can tug on one's heart to draw us toward His Son but never forces surrender --- John 6:44 --
1 Timothy 2:4-6 GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
4 He wants all people to be saved and to learn the truth.5 There is one God. There is also one mediator between God and humans—a human, Christ Jesus.6 He sacrificed himself for all people to free them from their sins.
This message is valid for every era.
There is much controversy over this subject and we all have our views on it ---this is just mine -----God is not the author of confusion and I believe we humans are the ones creating the our own confusion over this subject ---- No matter what we believe this word means ---the Scripture above says what God wants for His Human Creation ---Up to us to accept or reject the offer --- He wants all people to be saved and to learn the truth. and ----- He sacrificed himself for all people to free them from their sins
All Glory is God's
This is what I believe about this elect and predestination ----I do not believe that there are certain people elect that are predestined to salvation, but salvation is predestined for those who seek Christ who shed His Precious Blood to save all people -----
Ephesians 1:3-14New King James Version (NKJV)
Redemption in Christ
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence,9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself,10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both[a]which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him.11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,14 who[b]is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
If only certain people are the elect and predestined for Salvation ---then God would be a respecter of persons and this world make God who says Himself He is not a respecter of persons a liar -----and Jesus would not have had to shed His Blood for all to be saved ----If we seek Christ and accept Him we are an adopted Child of God and saved -----
Acts 10:34-36Amplified Bible (AMP)
34 And Peter opened his mouth and said: Most certainly and thoroughly I now perceive and understand that God shows no partiality and is no respecter of persons,
35 But in every nation he who venerates and has a reverential fear for God, treating Him with worshipful obedience and living uprightly, is acceptable to Him and[a]sure of being received and welcomed [by Him].
36 You know the contents of the message which He sent to Israel, announcing the good news (Gospel) of peace by Jesus Christ, Who is Lord of all—
In My Opinion
God had a plan and predestination for His creation to reconnect to Him was part of this plan ------He sent His only Son to die and set all people free who want to be free and reconnect with Him -----no one is special and hand picked ---God I would say knows who will accept His Son and who won't because God knows all things but I do not believe for one minute that God says I pick Peggy --- Susan ---Joe Blow Skipper ---Danny etc for salvation ----I also believe God can tug on one's heart to draw us toward His Son but never forces surrender --- John 6:44 --
1 Timothy 2:4-6 GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
4 He wants all people to be saved and to learn the truth.5 There is one God. There is also one mediator between God and humans—a human, Christ Jesus.6 He sacrificed himself for all people to free them from their sins.
This message is valid for every era.
There is much controversy over this subject and we all have our views on it ---this is just mine -----God is not the author of confusion and I believe we humans are the ones creating the our own confusion over this subject ---- No matter what we believe this word means ---the Scripture above says what God wants for His Human Creation ---Up to us to accept or reject the offer --- He wants all people to be saved and to learn the truth. and ----- He sacrificed himself for all people to free them from their sins
All Glory is God's
THus the unknown nature of god?
Only those that can be saved by the light of the situation can be saved ... others believe they can be saved by themselves and thus the Hebrew term on Hobbesian isolation and thus are off there alone ... contrary to that song hung in Eire about: you are never walking alone ... becus of the Shadow ... a dark sensation!