Who Inhabited the World First? Satan or Humans?

[chansen]

No, actually that's your perspective. You keep yourself in a myopic carefully insulated coma, when it comes to reading books that challenge your perspective. You have been repeatedly told that a loving God is willing to confirm His existence by direct mystical experience, and yet, you are unwilling to explore that possibility.

You can't convince anyone. You need to get people in a vulnerable place in order to take advantage of them. This is a recurring theme with you. You feed off people who are at their lowest or most vulnerable, having experienced medical or emotional trauma. You then want to hear all about their mystical, near-death experiences while in this state. You want to plant these thoughts in others. By doing so, you plant images that may come to them later, which they may interpret as a confirmation, when it's just a dream.

You are literally an ambulance-chaser. Just like am unscrupulous injury lawyer, you both want the confidence of the person in that ambulance. That you need to break someone down before having any effect is telling. You bring dishonour on your profession.

"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom" precisely because God (if there is a God) represents a higher order of reality than human consciousness. Or as God puts it in Isaiah 55:7-8, "As far as the heavens are above the earth are my ways above your ways and my thoughts abo e your thoughts."

"You can't understand it" - the claim of the scam artist. I love how frauds of three different types I've encountered - financial, stem cell and religious - all use this sort of claim. But of course, you understand this thing that is above human consciousness. Or at least, you understand that it exists. Undermining the claim before the ink dries on the screen.

Consider this humble analogy: Chickens don't know that we raise them simply to eat them and their eggs. They lay eggs because their instincts drive them to reproduce and bear young. But we think nothing of using them in this way because we are a higher order of being and most of us are carnivores. So why should God care about us, and ours? Best to ignore God, lower our heads, and peck at chicken feed, right? Or w we can explore the possibility of a different relationship with our Creator than we have with an indifferent and valueless universe.

The irony here is that you would have people put their heads down in prayer and feed from the spiritual chicken feed in the bible. We aren't chickens. We can choose where we go and what information we consume and find credible. To me, you have zero credibility, and your methods take Christianity, which doesn't start from a good place, and manages to make it even less believable and more immoral.

But how might we do that? Well, to begin with, we might consider our ignorance of how we fit into the Big Picture. The thought that we might be displeasing God by how we live might fill us with dread or fear. Does that mean that God is extorting our devotion? Of course not. But what if God's question is, "How badly do you want a relationship with me, your Creator?" We can deny God by demanding proof and He might discard us in favor of more receptive options. Or we can pursue the intuitive certitude that results from a direct mystical loving encounter. Either way we get to experience the emotional fruit of our decision.

We are ignorant. Of so much. We don't shed that ignorance by simply making big claims based on old scripture - that drags us backward.

In every other situation, not falling for people like you and your claims is seen as a sign of wisdom and experience. But you're different, right? Your claim is true. Just like all the other scam artists.

 

[Luce NDs]

Yes, we are isolated from intelligence ... a shadow of a thought ... denied by fixation ... a word suggested by the Hebrew Mahaineim ... for island-like survival ... an oasis?

 

[Mystic]

Chansen,
O how you wish I was ineffective. But like everything else in your narrow chicken coop, you are forced into hissyfits based on ignorance. In fact, in another site, I've been supporting a convert with whom I used to debate who is now a radiant Christian, the 2nd convert to e-mail me his new status on that site. But you're right about one thing: I do pay special attention to needy souls who are especially down on their luck and I offer spiritual comfort. For example, I weekly visit a bipolar fellow whose medications have destroyed his kidneys, so that he needs dialysis several days a week. He is wonderfully vulnerable to my spiritual encouragement and I make no apologies for offering him solace and friendship. I focus on his needs and those of other shut-ins because they are truly open to the joyful possibilities and hope of a Christian way of being--and my goal is the continue to make a positive difference wherever I can.

 

[Luce NDs]

In the world of pistis ... what is aur normal?

Tis beyond us or abnormal ... thus the Freudian death wish ... time to get out?

 

[unsafe]

BetteTheRed -----you had better do a little more research on the message that the parable of the sheep and the goat ----your assessment is not the full truth -----you miss a very important point ----

The real message here is that God's Children The Sheep will Love --Agape--- others ----The good works preformed by God's Children is the direct result that comes having a relationship with the Shepard --Jesus ----The True Sheep will treat others with kindness and true compassion because their hearts are directly connected to God who resided in them ----All good works glorify God ------The Good works preformed by the Sheep will produce good Fruit ----

The Goats who have not a relationship can certainly preform acts of kindness and love but their hearts are not right with God therefore the action is not for the right purpose which is to Glorify God ---The Good works preformed by the Goats is self driven not God driven and therefore will not produce the right Fruit ----

Every good work done should Glorify God not ourselves -----

 

[BetteTheRed]

Couple of observations:

1) The word "fear" as in "the fear of the Lord", might better be translated as "awe". Makes a huge difference.

2) From a pastoral POV, you'll notice that the "real" pastors on this site don't use words like "hissy fit" and "ignorance" in their conversations with real humans. You seem to be into that sort of put down.

3) From life experience dealing the late stage kidney disease sufferers, the amounts of toxin in their system often seem to make them irrational, and probably deeply susceptible to "hope of heaven" talk. You may wish to downplay this one of your "miracles"...

 

[BetteTheRed]

BetteTheRed -----you had better do a little more research on the message that the parable of the sheep and the goat ----your assessment is not the full truth -----you miss a very important point ----

The real message here is that God's Children The Sheep will Love --Agape--- others ----The good works preformed by God's Children is the direct result that comes having a relationship with the Shepard --Jesus ----The True Sheep will treat others with kindness and true compassion because their hearts are directly connected to God who resided in them ----All good works glorify God ------The Good works preformed by the Sheep will produce good Fruit ----

The Goats who have not a relationship can certainly preform acts of kindness and love but their hearts are not right with God therefore the action is not for the right purpose which is to Glorify God ---The Good works preformed by the Goats is self driven not God driven and therefore will not produce the right Fruit ----

Every good work done should Glorify God not ourselves -----

I'm a bit confused about this, unsafe. Are you saying that when I perform an act of agape love, in other words, perform a loving action to meet the needs of a person who probably will not "pay me back" in any sort of kind, that the act is less "agape" because I believe differently than you?

 

[Neo]

It's not "what" we believe but rather "how" we believe that matters. Anybody can believe something with their brain but believing with your heart takes courage and conviction.

 

[BetteTheRed]

I don't think it's got anything to do with what or how we believe. I think that the only judgment of our life here in this limited temporal plane will be on our actions. Hurt fewer people = good; hurt more people = more problematic. Godde did give us consciences for a reason, and most of us are not without such a capacity.

 

[Neo]

I don't think it's got anything to do with what or how we believe. I think that the only judgment of our life here in this limited temporal plane will be on our actions. Hurt fewer people = good; hurt more people = more problematic. Godde did give us consciences for a reason, and most of us are not without such a capacity.

But this is exactly my point, if we believe with sincerity then our actions follow suit.

 

[Delightful Life]

But this is exactly my point, if we believe with sincerity then our actions follow suit.

Just ta add that it does matter...
You and I an everyone else here are an affront to ISIL's version of Allah that needs to be converted to murdered with complete sincerity...

 

[BetteTheRed]

It matters WHAT we believe, for sure. A very wise man I once met said that he could never kill or die for a religious ideal.

 

[Neo]

Just ta add that it does matter...
You and I an everyone else here are an affront to ISIL's version of Allah that needs to be converted to murdered with complete sincerity...

I don't believe for a second that ISIL has either the sincerity of spirit or the honesty of mind in what they do. Unfortunately a fanatical mind can too easily quash that voice of reason within us.

 

[Neo]

It matters WHAT we believe, for sure. A very wise man I once met said that he could never kill or die for a religious ideal.

If one believes with sincerity of spirit and honesty of mind then killing for a religious idea would never enter the equation. This is what I mean by "how" we believe.

 

[BetteTheRed]

But does ISIL have (some) legitimate grievance with both western and traditional arabic political structures? Haven't they both caused oppression/pain in the region? If ISIL was committed to peaceful means, would they be anything more than dead/silent Arabs?

 

[Delightful Life]

But does ISIL have (some) legitimate grievance with both western and traditional arabic political structures? Haven't they both caused oppression/pain in the region? If ISIL was committed to peaceful means, would they be anything more than dead/silent Arabs?

That's a good point and one that should always b on the table
The biggest fact 4 me that says that that isnt the prime reason is that most muslim deaths are caused by theze Muslims from these horrorshow death cults.

 

[Delightful Life]

I don't believe for a second that ISIL has either the sincerity of spirit or the honesty of mind in what they do. Unfortunately a fanatical mind can too easily quash that voice of reason within us.

You dont for a second believe that, without changing much in you, you could become murdeous and commit evil acts?
If you dont then you havent read enough history.
The people who participated in the Holocaust were ordinary people. Schoolteachers. People with families. Children.
Also take a look at this. The bit in question starts at 0:52

These people were sincere. Even loving. They thought they were trying to help these people to save them.
What we believe controls how our world is. It actually makes certain things real and certain things not real.
Rationality only doesnt help. The Soviets were rational, too much so.
We value things that are meaningful and this isnt a rational thing.
Not all beliefs and behaviours are good, are conducive to our way of life that we enjoy.
Sorry 4 the "onslaught"

LA DI DAH!!!

 

[Luce NDs]

Rational with a dose of passion?

That should create a stir in the psychic pool ...

 

[Neo]

I think our definition of sincerity and honesty are different Inanna.

 

[Luce NDs]

I think our definition of sincerity and honesty are different Inanna.

Some finesse is required to understand the variations of how altruism effects the self .... versus the other self!

The "noble beast" is not always a gentile aristocrat ... allowing for things appearing as they aren't ... thus business is not always a healthy pragmatic for the peoples (host of paradigm) generally denied from the busy mind ... occupied with business!

Tis normal to encounter exclusion ...