What Have The Baby Boomers Done For Us?

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My observations indicate that almost everyone takes on a debt at some point it their life. We did for our first mortgage. When that was paid off we spent a little money on the house and continued adding to our savings. Then came the day when we sold the house, took out another mortgage and built a new home on an acreage. That too was paid off long before we sold it. The proceeds from that sale gave us enough for an economical house in town, a new car, some 'fixes' on the house and yard and money for the savings account.

In my opinion there isn't anything 'evil' about loans, bank accounts or credit cards. They just need to be researched carefully and understood before jumping in.
 
KayTheCurler said:
They just need to be researched carefully and understood before jumping in
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This. There is too much easy credit. My bank used to constantly bug me to take out a line of credit. Even when I buy a car using cash, they try to sell me some kind of short term financing. We constantly get offers for new credit cards. And so on. Some people just can't seem to resist this easy access to credit.
 
I think what kimmio is getting at is the risk of young people who did not come from a family that taught them the value of saving and the risk of spending as well as the dangers out there to make debt too easily and then be caught in the system. Now, there is also the option/ solution to declare bankrupcy, if you have to. Todays kids just have way more choices and need to make smart choices than ever before. Choices in consuming, loaning money, career choices, unlimited online partnering, drug use or not- and youth is vulnerable. So the basic question is, is there a way back to restrict the choices for the safety/ benefit of society.
I do not have an answer to that. I found that was also part of the legalizing pot issue. Kids have to make the choice now to not use it, because it is not good for them. But it’s legal. So they think they can use it.
Having the cookie now or save it and get two later. Many parents would have taught their kids, many have not, maybe because they never learned it themselves.
 
Kimmio said:
Besides individual debt here's another reason why credit cards are bad. Even for people who don't use them. They drive up prices! From Forbes:

How Credit Cards Hurt the Economy

"But as Geanakoplos and Dubey argue, credit cards increase the amount of dollars that each household can spend at one time, thereby flooding the system with both real money (cash) and promised money (debts). Even those who don’t use credit cards are affected in this scenario as sellers increase prices based on demand, regardless of whether a customer uses cash or a credit card. The money that you have in your savings account then becomes less valuable because it doesn’t have the same purchasing power."
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So do lines of credit. So do mortgages. So do grace periods for paying. Should we stop those too?
 
Mendalla said:
It takes two to tango. I've managed to largely stay out of that system. Why are others not able to do so?
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Really? Have you?

It takes two but the neoliberal consumer economic system is a giant to tango with (just try to stop dancing with it altogether and see what happens) ...it's an overwhelmingly pervasive and pernicious "entity" in people's lives and that increased in the 80s - expanding "target markets" and becoming more exploitative. Everything had corporate sponsorship attached. It was all about making money and spending money and making more and more money. It was also the age of privatization and the expansion of mega conglomerates so large it was harder and harder to tell who people are buying from and working for and just who it benefits. But it's rigged to benefit the wealthiest and screw everybody else.
 
As for credit cards, I do think some of the store cards act a bit differently than most.
I had a credit card when I was 18, I never had a problem with racking up debt, I would pay it off everything month. I actually had problems getting credit increases, I was annoyed that I had to put money on the card before paying tuition, as my credit limit was too low. This was even in grad school - so after 6 years of a credit history and a regular income plus lump sum scholarship payments they wouldn't put up my limit high enough. They weren't actually willing to consider the money payments I received all as income.

It's not like credit cards use 'gotcha' techniques. Things are laid out pretty well from the start, people can agree or not.
 
ChemGal said:
As for credit cards, I do think some of the store cards act a bit differently than most.
I had a credit card when I was 18, I never had a problem with racking up debt, I would pay it off everything month. I actually had problems getting credit increases, I was annoyed that I had to put money on the card before paying tuition, as my credit limit was too low. This was even in grad school - so after 6 years of a credit history and a regular income plus lump sum scholarship payments they wouldn't put up my limit high enough. They weren't actually willing to consider the money payments I received all as income.

It's not like credit cards use 'gotcha' techniques. Things are laid out pretty well from the start, people can agree or not.
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They do so! I keep getting emails saying I'm pre approved for a new Visa - "sign up and start saving on your purchases today!" My bank can see my income and savings - they should not be targeting me. I use a big bank and I shouldn't.
 
ChemGal said:
As for credit cards, I do think some of the store cards act a bit differently than most.
I had a credit card when I was 18, I never had a problem with racking up debt, I would pay it off everything month. I actually had problems getting credit increases, I was annoyed that I had to put money on the card before paying tuition, as my credit limit was too low. This was even in grad school - so after 6 years of a credit history and a regular income plus lump sum scholarship payments they wouldn't put up my limit high enough. They weren't actually willing to consider the money payments I received all as income.

It's not like credit cards use 'gotcha' techniques. Things are laid out pretty well from the start, people can agree or not.
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Did you live on your own and pay rent when you were 18?

There are different factors involved in why people use them and how they can get into trouble - even when the debt is small.
 
Kimmio said:
Really? Have you?

It takes two but the neoliberal consumer economic system is a giant to tango with (just try to stop dancing with it altogether and see what happens) ...it's an overwhelmingly pervasive and pernicious "entity" in people's lives and that increased in the 80s - expanding "target markets" and becoming more exploitative. Everything had corporate sponsorship attached. It was all about making money and spending money and making more and more money. It was also the age of privatization and the expansion of mega conglomerates so large it was harder and harder to tell who people are buying from and working for and just who it benefits. But it's rigged to benefit the wealthiest and screw everybody else.
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Look, I buy stuff. If buying stuff means you're participating in a neoliberal economic system, then the neoliberal economic system goes back to at least the Greeks, probably further back than that. But I don't think that's what you have in mind. You're talking about the hyperactive consumer culture of the past few decades that drags people into debt to live up to expectations generated largely by marketing companies.

I don't participate in that excess consumer culture. I buy as much of anything as I need and not more. As I commented in another post, I don't take the lines of credit and other offers to loan me money so I can spend more than I have. I don't watch much advertising and certainly don't buy based on hype. It's not that hard to avoid the worst excesses if you just put some thought and willpower into it.

Cars are a good example. I drive base, or near base, Hondas with an income that would have some people heading for a luxury brand or a least a high-end trim package. I could afford more, a lot more if I was willing to lease or finance, but I don't believe in driving more car than I need and certainly not going into debt for it. It's better for the economy because I'm not in debt and it's better for the environment because I'm driving relatively small, efficient vehicles.

I fail to see how my attitude is part of the neoliberal economic system. If that's the case, the only way to escape is give up all one's possessions and live on a commune in the countryside.
 
Kimmio said:
Did you live on your own and pay rent when you were 18?

There are different factors involved in why people use them and how they can get into trouble - even when the debt is small.
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No. Even if I had though, I wouldn't have been spending more than I had. I knew that credit card had to get paid off.

I don't see how credit card offers are gotcha techniques, the interest rate is laid out, if it's an introductory period that is laid out, fees are laid out. No one is forcing people to accept.
 
ChemGal said:
No. Even if I had though, I wouldn't have been spending more than I had. I knew that credit card had to get paid off.

I don't see how credit card offers are gotcha techniques, the interest rate is laid out, if it's an introductory period that is laid out, fees are laid out. No one is forcing people to accept.
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You don't know for sure what you would've done. You had advantages that 18 yr olds living independently wouldn't have had, while they are thrust into a predatory system. People start out with good intentions and get sucked in. You are fortunate, economically.
 
Mendalla said:
Look, I buy stuff. If buying stuff means you're participating in a neoliberal economic system, then the neoliberal economic system goes back to at least the Greeks, probably further back than that. But I don't think that's what you have in mind. You're talking about the hyperactive consumer culture of the past few decades that drags people into debt to live up to expectations generated largely by marketing companies.

I don't participate in that excess consumer culture. I buy as much of anything as I need and not more. As I commented in another post, I don't take the lines of credit and other offers to loan me money so I can spend more than I have. I don't watch much advertising and certainly don't buy based on hype. It's not that hard to avoid the worst excesses if you just put some thought and willpower into it.

Cars are a good example. I drive base, or near base, Hondas with an income that would have some people heading for a luxury brand or a least a high-end trim package. I could afford more, a lot more if I was willing to lease or finance, but I don't believe in driving more car than I need and certainly not going into debt for it. It's better for the economy because I'm not in debt and it's better for the environment because I'm driving relatively small, efficient vehicles.

I fail to see how my attitude is part of the neoliberal economic system. If that's the case, the only way to escape is give up all one's possessions and live on a commune in the countryside.
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We all participate in neoliberalism by default. I'm suggesting we can do more to begin to divest from it so as to change the system. I agree that currently the only way to do it completely is to move off the grid, which is not realistic for most people.
 
Kimmio said:
You don't know for sure what you would've done. You had advantages that 18 yr olds living independently wouldn't have had, while they are thrust into a predatory system. People start out with good intentions and get sucked in. You are fortunate, economically.
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I choose to live at home instead of moving out, yes I was lucky where I had that option.
If I did move out, I had at least a year's worth of expenses in my bank account. In grade 12 and my first year of university between work, school and other activities I actually didn't spend much at all, I didn't feel like I had the time. When I did go out clubbing I actually made money as back then no line/no cover was common, plus there were so many things floating out there for 5 free drinks. I wouldn't drink 5 drinks in a night, so I would sell off the extra drinks to someone else.

I don't think it's the norm for people to be kicked out of their home while in high school. My high school population was huge (largest in Western Canada at the time, if not Canada) and I only knew one person where she was independent of her parents, without a legal guardian.

Even with my savings, I doubt I would have dipped into them other than temporarily until other funding came through, I doubt I would have spent beyond the scholarships I received.
 
paradox3 said:
Many people find this is the best approach to credit cards. Many others encounter no problems with credit cards, using them as a convenience and paying them off every month.

But your comments about their role in the economy are interesting to consider. I just suspect something else would come along to take their place and make money for the banks.
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I pay as much as I can with my Visa card (or my Master Card at Costco or No Frills) and get the reward points. Every Friday I pay off whatever I owe on my cards through online banking. I never carry a balance and never pay interest. The reward points came in handy last weekend for a sudden and unexpected vet bill and they meant I essentially paid nothing for that vet visit.
 
Moving off grid still has costs. You need money to pay your taxes on the land. If you want to go anywhere you need transport that costs money - yep even a horse needs shelter and food! If you plan to hunt for your meat you need a weapon and shells or arrows.
 
Well, we do know that there are people living from pay cheque to pay cheque and are late with every bill they get because there just isn’t enough income. And there are just people who cannot handle money, no matter how much income they make. My Ex was one of those. No ability to plan. Used to look at advertising and say:” Look, this TV / car/ whatever is $500 off, what a good deal, we should get it. So I usually replied- “ yeah, and we save $3000 more by not buying it.”
He would easily go for credit that was offered to him and his cell phone was regularly not working, because he hadn’t paid his bill.
So, do we teach better hands-on math classes in school or make laws regulating advertising?
 
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