What Do You Know About Islam?

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Waterfall said:
I'm suggesting, satire isn't always well informed and can add fuel to the fire by not doing the homework.
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I'm sure it isn't. So, show where it is wrong. Don't act all offended and say the satire is ill-informed and expect others to care. Provide reasons. Argue against it. Nuke it.
 
As far as Islam goes, there is a stream of reports from Islamic countries about how the courts - not extremists, but actual judges - treat anyone who dares even suggest that rights be extended or atheism is an option:

http://news.yahoo.com/egypt-student-gets-3-jail-term-atheism-152045172.html

That's Egypt where a student has been sentenced to 3 years in jail for saying he is an atheist on Facebook. I mean, you don't have to look for for reasons why Islam needs a massive wakeup call. But not bombs. Not guns. Just pointed criticism and mockery of positions and ideas by showing just how insecure their faith must be if they need to beat and jail those who suggest that their faith is not correct. It's not just the extremists.
 
chansen said:
As far as Islam goes, there is a stream of reports from Islamic countries about how the courts - not extremists, but actual judges - treat anyone who dares even suggest that rights be extended or atheism is an option:

http://news.yahoo.com/egypt-student-gets-3-jail-term-atheism-152045172.html

That's Egypt where a student has been sentenced to 3 years in jail for saying he is an atheist on Facebook. I mean, you don't have to look for for reasons why Islam needs a massive wakeup call. But not bombs. Not guns. Just pointed criticism and mockery of positions and ideas by showing just how insecure their faith must be if they need to beat and jail those who suggest that their faith is not correct. It's not just the extremists.
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It looks like the mainstream is supporting the extremists. Saudi Arabia has bought a huge quantity of arms from arms manufacturers around the world, but has no large standing army and no use for it itself. The inevitable conclusion is that they are supplying ISIS and maybe other extremist groups with arms.
 
thanks for that, wonderfall

i think an issue is

here we have a global population

each with its own tribes/culture each with their own social norms which includes what they think of is awesome, what they think of as ugly, etc

and connection between these groups used to take a lot of time. geography, slow transport, etc

so the old ways of controlling social norm breaching aren't working anymore

but now, we have a world that is always on and we literally can hear of an event as it happens -- and more and more people are empowered to act in their world, to enact real change and effects...

we can go and experience a culture, a different one, every day if we want to

that's why there is the impossible task of how to deal with all of this?

some kind of global uber culture/set of ethics?

some kind of global laws, extending such things as libel & harrassment & such laws (which i think are sufficient in my culture to cover the 'satirists not quite thinking through their satire' hypothesis of wonderfall's above) over the globe?

some kind of global tradition like meditation that will teach people to deal with their being offended?

what is going to happen?

we're experiencing i think the birth of a new world

who woulda guessed that so many millions of people from all kinds of walks of life would be marching in support of mocking?

that is awesome to behold for me

i guess one of the things it will mean that some behaviours, a minority of people and cultures (which are collections of social norms, behaviours) won't be allowed to burgeon...they will somehow be scapegoated, changed...

(and how do we deal with the outliers who are somehow incompetent when they deal with their outrage?)

thus mote it be

a-men
a-woman
a-other
 
You forgot a' mon which is sometimes omi-Nous as subversive predator on your thoughts when you are not alert to your surroundings ... sort of like a lesser psyche slipping in the back door as a cloud over the waters ... the essence of a whine from way down deep. Deep in history A'mon was considered the S'he-Ur of the mind ... the singular one (sole) who cuts out bad thoughts by nature of Occam's Rule on edge's tuff ... it is a sharp state that the bible said ... should remain alert ... at least aware ... but there are Zombies.

In Bacchus is there a whine about to unknowns of high authority? Is that humbling or what? You can weave and wobble about that without fallibility unless you are extreme about all-things (everything as containment of gods?) Some times you can observe this when drifting off!

This can be oppositional if you look at it from the other's point ... that damned spot that disturbs your position and should be considered (an) in the entire image a' nation that's beyond the fixated ... thus generating a Black Mire on the windows of heaven as they are smoked by flames without adequate Eire ... the stuff that goes around everything as ethereal the aught ... th'aughts you've never encountered when totally aware and devoid of emotions. This, a domain treasured by meddling characters that work with the duo ... an intermingled mind that is clearing ... some call such irony pure she-keel (glassy bote OEn the vessel) as reflective ... to others it is chimerii ... like gold in the kohl nights Skye full of po' ethics like bobby burning as the bonny (bone eh) Charlie ... the wee man within the great mother ... Ur that's out there Piscine with dark humour of what the lesser powers are doing without inverted thoughts ... an un-converted humus ... just OEm'n as Hom' Eire ... if you can get that deep into the determinate myth ... as Kahn 'd?

Thus myths are flighty and ephemeral ... sort of things that are ethereal and surround us as haunts ... supporting thought as fil lo' Sophy or dreams of complexity of life. Many believe life is a simple's crew up (simeon pate as the bonne-Eire) or a population (vaccuous) above the heart ... where the head is! Such stuff doesn't register there without a howl of myth? Mortals didn't wish to know!

Do you have any mental anonymous things that are unspeakable ... like the desire to control things you shouldn't touch with lack of intellect (professional authority against a lesser technical query) being it is all out there to us gravely compacted or otherwise impacted ... a word that could provide a fixed constitution or a satyr-like fixation stuck in the Shadow. Could one bring freed thoughts to this domain? Only when out of here ... a mystical journey ... some say it is storied ... like flora of higher domains? The Dark Eros again ... as Eris ... that female dissonance that somehow got inside me in a pariah-tael fall ... infallible nature of M'N kind re*gar*din dissention/dissonance or the minor chord ... a state of mind that requires not war but dip loam a'Scie ... or Ze place from which one can observe distant humours ... what the English called bloody dark expositions ... that are explicitly so to the blocked off imp-licensures ... laws that allow people to do most anything without consequence. Many don't believe in hermeneutics ... a'post'oles as following blank spots! Thus the word was laid down as shadowy domain ... mostly avoided by people of contained sense of words" limited or mortal? At least until you're out-ve-Ear ... listening more closely to distant, separated thoughts that are mortally in determinate!
 
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Perhaps it is subtle on your horizon, as satyrs are humiliating Shadows to the upper castes? They are infallible as bottom line ... from there the bounce or cycle continues ... thus allowing for come backs! This is part an d parcel of free dialogue ...

John Milton was really pissed by the limitation of free dialogue by Star Chamber Censure that occurred in the 1600's due to release o spiritual rules on word by King James. Few understand the implications of Milton's Lost Paradise!

From this we get copyright laws like that in the foreword of Lexicons that state you're not allowed to repeat a word in there without permission from the source ... a person long dead ... or deeply restive as mortals seen to have lost their minds. Proof? Just look about ... is the world full of contained shadows ... enslaved psyches? This is open to query ... from which you can make many connections or Tae's ...
 
So, Inanna, how do we deal with people who are easily offended? How do we teach them not to be offended? How do we teach them the simple lesson that the offended is his or her own offender, that the offended has the choice, that the offended chooses to be offended?

By intentionally offending them?

If the offended has the choice whether or not to be offended, then the intentional offender, by the same token, has the choice of whether or not to intentionally offend.

If we ourselves are immune to ridicule, should we ridicule others in order to confer on them the same immunity? Or is ridicule or satire a valid social tool that should be used for the sake of establishing or maintaining social health or social order?

I have no answers for others, but my own love for my fellow beings precludes intentionally offending them. As far as teaching them the lesson that the offended is his or her own offender, that nobody can offend them against their will, I will gladly teach it--if they are open to it.

The Golden Rule, if applied correctly, compels us to treat others the way they wish to be treated, not the way we wish to be treated. If we are immune to ridicule, and attempt to teach others this immunity by intentionally offending them, despite our knowledge that this will hurt them and the lesson will be fruitless, then we are not applying the Golden Rule. Then we are not practicing Agape.

I think there are better ways of social critique and teaching others not to be offended.


Friends, not those tunes! But let us sing a new and better song:

Joy, joy!
Joy, you spark of godly beauty, Daughters of Elysium,
We will enter, drunk with fire, Heavenly, your Heavendom.

-Ode to Joy, music by Beethoven, written by Friedrich Schiller, based on fragments from the Thalia, a Christian prose poem by the Alexandrian Christian teacher Arianus.


"Friends, not those tunes!" was the title of a front page article Hermann Hesse wrote for the Hamburg Daily at the outbreak of the Fist World War. Alas, his appeal proved fruitless! Would satire have done a better job?

Hermann Hess himself was no stranger to satire, but he wrote it for people who were open to it. In his novel Siddartha he depicted Siddartha the Buddha as a greedy merchant who associated with whores and enriched himself at the expense of the poor, but in the end attained enlightenment. The Buddhist world embraced his book! It was translated into all of the twelve languages of India, into most languages of Asia, became the most popular German book ever translated into Asian languages, and Hesse became a household word in Japan because of it.

Unfortunately, Hesse's books were banned and burned in Nazi Germany. Hesse became popular in Germany really only after he had become the darling author of the American Hippie movement.
 
Hermann said:
The Golden Rule, if applied correctly, compels us to treat others the way they wish to be treated, not the way we wish to be treated. If we are immune to ridicule, and attempt to teach others this immunity by intentionally offending them, despite our knowledge that this will hurt them and the lesson will be fruitless, then we are not applying the Golden Rule. Then we are not practicing Agape.
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When you make it about how they wish to be treated, how does that work when they want to be treated as more special and fragile than you? When they say, "Hey, because Muhammad was right, we insist you don't so much as draw him as you imagine him, for any reason," do you just capitulate? What of the Scientologists who use lawyers to enforce their rules that nothing bad is said about Scientology? Are we supposed to respect their attempt to impose a similar boundary?
 
Well, chansen, I'll decide on a case-by-case basis.:)

If Muslims are particularly sensitive about having their Prophet depicted, then I would simply refrain from depicting him, but I would question their statement that "Mohammed was right!", and talk to them about it. And I am confident that I have the tools to talk to them effectively. But I have ridiculed Scientology before, and will do so again, without any regrets.

The Golden Rule, as I envision it, applies to the other side as well. If they want to be treated as they wish do be treated, then they have to treat us as we wish to be treated.

I think and feel that the universe is reciprocal. Whatever we project into it comes out of it.
 
Is the Shadow character the conscience itself (bone'i Charles, that fiery persona within?) that wee part of the elusive psyche ... it appears as indeterminate? Everyone is dished out a portion (cup of de lam'B, secondary light, or hindsight?) for looking into the even darker surroundings ... environment to those with closed and isolated souls? The Hebrew called these island personalities as maheinaim ... or M'N for short. Go figure ... is that cunning way to dispose of the conscience? This can be done through fear and anger .. two parts of the Myers-Briggs profile ... a sort of silhouette as drawn out .. by point of penne in the dark .. th' inque 'n? This varies as opposite the emotions ... instead of mob morals we get upstanding ET-ihcs! Many miss this damned point altogether ... as a dizzying sense in vert egos! Some ripening in prober atmosphere or Eire is required like "pade's" ... what you can raise from flat out's tuff ... lo-eerier satyrs? The haunting thoughts get worse? Some have learned denial of intellect ... and thus don't see the fringe appearing as manifest v de jah vu ... some call this "vu doo" as distant vision or mental distancing ...

If one preserves and locks up the mined ... can one find themselves in deep pits? This may be like a psyche blinded by passions ... a lot of smoke and mire (dirt?) ... and thus the expression dark mire-aura of heaven with all the clouds of what'r vapours ... at least until it rains ... thus clearing the air northwest of England.

It could be a myth describing something else ... beyond a mortal intellect? One must wander a stretch ... wobble and wee-bleu in song but don't fall down! Some humus is meant to catch authorities notions ... they don't see much as adhering to professional status and ignoring technology that gives a vision of the wholly image ...

It's the hairy situation we all pass through until reaching the critical age. Maturity, mellowing and senility is open to outside debate ...

Some say the mined should be kept Kohl to work properly .. and thus the issue of dunking of the fatty issue (neural 't issue) in 80% water ... thus providing vitreous humors as I see it! Some see through a heated fog ... this is the religion of emotions alone ... and thus it is here and now ... hopefully there's adoration of some other means out. Could it be that medium that hangs as pariah to mortals between the domain of emotions and intellect ... a thinly veiled presence of the abstract ... the yet incomplete thingy?

Omega di'd wish mortals could image the creation of mind ... as Levite is almost out ... at the edge ... think quickly ... as perhaps that edge flash ... the spark of a'farce ID cognizance of how really sic wea re?
 
Moe Ham mede ... that dark inner manifestation that isn't used by men who feel they have power to deny intellect? It is something that is incarnate ... or appears as it isn't and so only words can express the sensation of coming face to face with your own Shadow personality ... the dark side of psyche? Most will not try and understand that as they approach for the wrong side of the tree ... from the other side you can see the silhouette ... a sort of mental profiling. What does one do in a land without trees? Cultivate ... it is shiyr logos ...
 
Hermann said:
So, Inanna, how do we deal with people who are easily offended? How do we teach them not to be offended? How do we teach them the simple lesson that the offended is his or her own offender, that the offended has the choice, that the offended chooses to be offended?

By intentionally offending them?

If the offended has the choice whether or not to be offended, then the intentional offender, by the same token, has the choice of whether or not to intentionally offend.

If we ourselves are immune to ridicule, should we ridicule others in order to confer on them the same immunity? Or is ridicule or satire a valid social tool that should be used for the sake of establishing or maintaining social health or social order?

I have no answers for others, but my own love for my fellow beings precludes intentionally offending them. As far as teaching them the lesson that the offended is his or her own offender, that nobody can offend them against their will, I will gladly teach it--if they are open to it.

The Golden Rule, if applied correctly, compels us to treat others the way they wish to be treated, not the way we wish to be treated. If we are immune to ridicule, and attempt to teach others this immunity by intentionally offending them, despite our knowledge that this will hurt them and the lesson will be fruitless, then we are not applying the Golden Rule. Then we are not practicing Agape.

I think there are better ways of social critique and teaching others not to be offended.


Friends, not those tunes! But let us sing a new and better song:

Joy, joy!
Joy, you spark of godly beauty, Daughters of Elysium,
We will enter, drunk with fire, Heavenly, your Heavendom.

-Ode to Joy, music by Beethoven, written by Friedrich Schiller, based on fragments from the Thalia, a Christian prose poem by the Alexandrian Christian teacher Arianus.


"Friends, not those tunes!" was the title of a front page article Hermann Hesse wrote for the Hamburg Daily at the outbreak of the Fist World War. Alas, his appeal proved fruitless! Would satire have done a better job?

Hermann Hess himself was no stranger to satire, but he wrote it for people who were open to it. In his novel Siddartha he depicted Siddartha the Buddha as a greedy merchant who associated with whores and enriched himself at the expense of the poor, but in the end attained enlightenment. The Buddhist world embraced his book! It was translated into all of the twelve languages of India, into most languages of Asia, became the most popular German book ever translated into Asian languages, and Hesse became a household word in Japan because of it.

Unfortunately, Hesse's books were banned and burned in Nazi Germany. Hesse became popular in Germany really only after he had become the darling author of the American Hippie movement.
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That's the rub

Are there empirical ways that can be taught for people to own their offense?
(and how will one teach them while still respecting free will & sovereignty?)
Will there be outliers of a population that will still be incompetent and how to deal with them?

Yes, whilst in the midst of being offended, it is difficult to learn how not to be offended...;3
 
Are there empirical ways that can be taught for people not to take offense?

No, not really. It is an insight. And, like all insights, it has to arise from within. But people who earnestly seek IT can be helped to attain IT by those who have IT. The kingdom within, eh?

People who want to be offended will be; people who want to suffer will suffer. It is difficult to get beyond being offended when you are in the midst of being offended; it is difficult to get beyond suffering if you are in the midst of suffering.

Do you know the short story by Michael Ende about Labyrinth City? Labyrinth City was an unhappy city; its citizens were were condemned to unhappiness. They desperately wanted to escape its unhappy confines, but the city was governed by a paradox: in order to escape its unhappy confines, they had to be happy.

To get out of any catch 22 trap requires getting out over the top: a quantum leap (of faith)
 
I didn't know:
1.) Jihad means struggling or striving, not Holy War (al-harb is arabic for war)
2.) Jihad refers to internal and external ways to be a good muslim
3.) There are strict rules to a military jihad

What Jihad is Not
1.) Jihad is not a violent concept
2.) Jihad is not a declaration of war against other religions
3.) The Koran specifically speaks of Jews and Christians as people of the book and should be protected and respected.
4.) Most calls for violent Jihad are not sanctioned by Islam

Read:
http://islamicsupremecouncil.org/un...misunderstood-concept-from-islam.html?start=9
 
Does jihad suggest a mental struggle to do not as you will but what is pragmatic (good for all)?

People who believe in free will, will argue they may do as they will as "their will" is god and your will is another god to be discredited in the mental battle of wills that is not good for the collective (God as Capital sense, not just Monis)!

When overcome with will and desire people don't comprehend thoughts as a general good sense ... consider those star struck in the night ... they're screwed!
 
Great article, kimmio, and thanks. I particularly liked her last line:

"It is only when boys, girls, women and men can live with dignity, in safety and with freedom of conscience as the Qur'an demands (2:256) that a country can rightfully call itself "Islamic."

to which I'd add,

It is only when humans, representing the entire diversity of humanity, can live with dignity, in safety and with freedom of conscience, as God requires (many citations) that a country can rightfully call itself "Christian".
 
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