What Do You Know About Islam?

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Thus the story of man and god proceeds forth and aft ... beyond the realm of those instituted in the presence ...
 
jimkenney12 said:
To expand on Hermann's answer, build relationships with them so we can understand how they want to be treated. To me, the main focus of the ministry of Jesus was relationships: with God, others and self. Care enough about them to really get to know them.
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Yes, Jim, that's exactly what I meant.

And, once you really get to know Muslims, you find out that they are particularly sensitive about depicting their Prophet, not even in a good way. And then we simply refrain from lampooning him in the name of freedom of expression. Talking to them, getting to know them and respecting what is particularly sacred to them, and opening a respectful dialogue, is far more important than forcing our ideas of freedom of expression down their throats.

Different cultures have different values. I think we should respect those values rather than trashing them just to teach them a lesson about our ideas of freedom of expression.
 
Although lampooning the Prophet Mohammed should not be made illegal, I regard it as socially and morally irresponsible and reprehensible.
 
I think that, simply because many Muslims insist their religious figure should be immune from satirical depictions, is an excellent reason to satirize him. Satire is perhaps the best tool to use against arrogance, and insisting your religion is above ridicule immediately qualifies it as a prime target.
 
chansen said:
I think that, simply because many Muslims insist their religious figure should be immune from satirical depictions, is an excellent reason to satirize him. Satire is perhaps the best tool to use against arrogance, and insisting your religion is above ridicule immediately qualifies it as a prime target.
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Is it possible that those satirizing are arrogant too?

Should someone read Richard Dawkins books before using "the best tool against arrogance" against him, or will snippets do?

Before criticizing the people of the book, wouldn't it be more responsible to read it? Perhaps it's not Islam they should be satirizing but pure hatred and terrorism hijacking a religion.
 
chansen said:
I think that, simply because many Muslims insist their religious figure should be immune from satirical depictions, is an excellent reason to satirize him. Satire is perhaps the best tool to use against arrogance, and insisting your religion is above ridicule immediately qualifies it as a prime target.
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It is not so much that they think their religion is against ridicule, or that their religious figures should be immune from satirical depiction. In their religion, any depiction of sacred personages, be it positive or negative, is frowned upon. There are no pictures of Allah or Mohammed or any other of their prophets or saints on or in their mosques or in any of their art. To depict them is regarded as idol worship, which is frowned upon in Islam. Islam actually is quite tolerant and egalitarian, much more so than Christianity, and, in absence of all that Christology, easier to swallow than Christianity. Islamic absolutism and fundamentalism is, of course, just as reprehensible as its Christian equivalent.

Mosques are rich in geometric art, and there is a total absence of idols and idolatry. I find this rather refreshing. I find the depictions of a crucified and bleeding Jesus in Christian churches and art rather gross, as is the depiction of a St. Sebastian riddled with arrows, or a St. Jerome roasting over a slow fire, or a glorification or "gorification" of any other of their sacred personages. These gorifications are, to my mind, worse than satirical depictions.

I think it is not neighbourly or socially wise to poke fun at what other people hold precious. I would, for instance, never dream of ridiculing the illness of your little son Carter, or your struggle with his illness and death, and you probably would resent it if I did. Yet you seem to think that ridiculing what other people hold precious should be acceptable to them?
 
Muhammad had some not so nice things to say about non-believers and apostates, and then claims rights for Islam that it has no right to claim. Carter never said anything bad about anybody, but if someone wants to try to mock Carter, bring it on. Hell, I joke about Carter and how terrible he was. I poke fun at him still. I can grieve my son, and still have a sense of humour about him. Islam often can not see that it is a terrific target because it is so arrogant about being the final revelation. Satire works against Islam because there is an element of truth to it. That Islamic countries and groups are so worried about satirical images and words shows that satirists are doing good and necessary work.
 
chansen said:
I think that, simply because many Muslims insist their religious figure should be immune from satirical depictions, is an excellent reason to satirize him. Satire is perhaps the best tool to use against arrogance, and insisting your religion is above ridicule immediately qualifies it as a prime target.
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Can you point me toward some good atheist satire then.
 
Atheist satyr is not well understood by those of superfluous institution ... sort of out of the bo que sort of thing as a shadowy hue ... without doubt --- di di mous!

Takes some extension of the fine stance in presence and Dejah Vue ... sometimes known as Vue Due to some delay in understanding nature and un-natural's tuff ... live penetrating into the aught!

Thus such satyrs speak of Bacchus ... with controlled whine ... close to white noise ....
 
chansen said:
Muhammad had some not so nice things to say about non-believers and apostates, and then claims rights for Islam that it has no right to claim. Carter never said anything bad about anybody, but if someone wants to try to mock Carter, bring it on. Hell, I joke about Carter and how terrible he was. I poke fun at him still. I can grieve my son, and still have a sense of humour about him. Islam often can not see that it is a terrific target because it is so arrogant about being the final revelation. Satire works against Islam because there is an element of truth to it. That Islamic countries and groups are so worried about satirical images and words shows that satirists are doing good and necessary work.
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Yes, chansen, I agree. When someone is extremely sensitive to ridicule, then there usually is some element of truth to the ridicule. For instance, if someone is called a pig, or depicted as a pig, and is offended by it, then it usually is because he is a bit of a pig. If he wasn't, he wouldn't be offended but amused, eh?

I myself am not sensitive to ridicule, but I still wouldn't needle or ridicule my neighbour on points he is particularly sensitive about. I've seen people mercilessly push other people's hot buttons, on purpose, just to get them mad. This is not conducive to fruitful dialogue, is socially irresponsible and unwise, and is akin to bullying.

"Sticks and stones can break my bones but words will never hurt me!" or so goes the proverb. But, in reality, words (and cartoons) can and do hurt. I think there are better ways to start a fruitful dialog on the follies of religion than hurting each other's feelings.
 
Should one enter the unconscious to determine why one is adverse (fears or id angry) about irrational things?

Is this possible if one doesn't even believe in a conscious mind ... how would one know other wise?

Love tends to be like that ... dangerous--- Rod neigh what's his name! Or Scott Peck if you will accept psycho/psychi a' trysts ... that approximate a' theists that believe love is beyond a hateful realm! Even the theological hate variants of devious value!
 
Luce NDs said:
Should one enter the unconscious to determine why one is adverse (fears or id angry) about irrational things?

Is this possible if one doesn't even believe in a conscious mind ... how would one know other wise?

Love tends to be like that ... dangerous--- Rod neigh what's his name! Or Scott Peck if you will accept psycho/psychi a' trysts ... that approximate a' theists that believe love is beyond a hateful realm! Even the theological hate variants of devious value!
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Love issue dangerous thing. It's risky and requires more Ghana tariff during toddler. Its much watertight hate. Its much more comfortable forget human nature. But love is worth it during therewith cold years that we share under the sun.
 
Waterfall said:
Is it possible that those satirizing are arrogant too?
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Of course it is.

Waterfall said:
Should someone read Richard Dawkins books before using "the best tool against arrogance" against him, or will snippets do?

Before criticizing the people of the book, wouldn't it be more responsible to read it? Perhaps it's not Islam they should be satirizing but pure hatred and terrorism hijacking a religion.
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I'm not even sure where you're going here.
 
Sorry, that's not really my department. Asking me to find you satire of atheists is like asking me to find you Korean BBQ recipes.
 
An Atheist, a Fundy, and an Agnostic get to heaven. St. Peter opens the gate, and they see God in all of His/Her/Its splendour. The fundy falls to his knees and says: "I always knew that you existed. Now, finally, it is confirmed!"

"Well, I never was quite sure whether or not you existed," said the Agnostic, "and I still am not convinced. Are you real, or are you a figment of our imagination?"

"I was certain that you didn't exist," said the atheist. "Do you or don't you?"

"I do exist and I do not exist," answered God. "I am a figment of your imagination, and I am real. I am all things to all people. I am all things. I am."
 
Pr. Jae said:
Are you suggesting that atheism should be above ridicule?
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Nobody thinks I'm suggesting that. I'm saying I don't have sources of satire about atheists at my fingertips. That's about the only way my post could be taken.
 
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