What Are The Building Blocks Of Our Faith ?

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revjohn said:
Well that is only because the originator of the ponzi scheme will not live 2000 years. 2000 years of similar ponzi schemes will have some similarity.

Of course there was a time when the scheme was a little more obvious and a great number of folk rallied against it in one way or another. Rumour tells of one guy with a hammer, ink and some parchment making a public declaration or the ponzi scheme at work. Mind you, the Ponzi scheme was less about the primaries of the Christian faith than it was the secondaries or tertiaries.
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Even still Christianity done wrong crashes.
 
Look down too ... some of the partisan moves are done with adepts ... kind of subtle satyrs ... especially to those that believe the lesser bunch knows little ... but all the small chits add up ... that's social integration if they learn anything at all ...
 
Waterfall said:
Even still Christianity done wrong crashes.
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It has ever been thus. Those who have studied the faith see it happen here and there again and again and again and again.

And yet it is just as true that where hearts are genuinely concerned with things well beyond the self the Church repents, recants, confesses and seeks to be reconciled. That happens again and again and again and again. Nobody seems to much care though. What is important to note is the failure. It is important never to give credit where credit is due but only to paint all with the same, sordid brush.

Only observations which prove our thesis are important to note. Observations which might cause us to reformulate our thesis are ignored as abberations in favour of universal tendencies.

It is far easier to speak in generalities of course we, inside, make the same kind of mistakes. We are tremendously fond of the no true Scotsman fallacy and rather than point out that the Church is comprised of ordinary humans and liable to err we take great pains to say, whenever Christianity is done wrong it is obviously true that there were no "real" Christians present.

Real Christians make real mistakes.

Real Christians ought to repent those real mistakes sometimes, for whatever reason, we don't.[/FONT]
 
The true Scotsman is really mean and thus caught in the midst of God knows what ... possibly even flying in the dark ...
 
BetteTheRed said:
Problem with this, Waterfall, as John points out, is that neither we, individually, nor our congregations, are ever the ones doing it wrong...
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It doesnt matter what we think does it? Its Gods church and sometimes as hard as it is to be patient...God will come through...and not always in our own favour.
 
@unsafe
I brought up Nenivah upthread...a story of God saving "heathens" who repented, which actually pissed off Jonah.What were their building blocks of faith? And why did God run out to greet the prodigal son and welcome him into the kingdom after he did everythng wrong? The other son had done everything right and he was peeved off.

How wouid you feel if Chansen and Pavlos make it into heaven and you don't? Is that even possible IYO?
 
It is said that everyone will be surprized and amazed .. at what they find in and under the heavens ... the midnight sun as a metaphor? Tis a an odd collection! Yah gotta wonder what some of the stuff is for ... some don't wish to know ... almost biblical in context ...
 
Waterfall said:
@unsafe
I brought up Nenivah upthread...a story of God saving "heathens" who repented, which actually pissed off Jonah.What were their building blocks of faith? And why did God run out to greet the prodigal son and welcome him into the kingdom after he did everythng wrong? The other son had done everything right and he was peeved off.

How wouid you feel if Chansen and Pavlos make it into heaven and you don't? Is that even possible IYO?
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If it's the heaven unsafe describes, we'll all be upset.
 
BetteTheRed said:
But clearly, it requires that prior to their death, they have arrived at a belief in a theistic, supernatural god. Since that isn't going to happen to me, short of some sort of traumatic brain injury, I have to assume that I'm not of the elect.
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--Hi BetteTheRed--I am not to sure why you feel your not a chosen , or if you will be one of the elect. GOD" I understand is the one who will let you know this. I find it well just to take Him, at His Word. I can tell you He Loves you, no He didn't sneak up on me and tell me this. He told the world this in John 3: 16. Why wouldn't He . He made you and so is your father. I believe I am a Chosen or elect. I am even now ,I believe a member of The Kingdom to come. Has nothing to do what I had done . It dose how ever have every thing to do what Jesus The Christ has done. His Blood, sett me free from the chain's of sin. That I had put Myself in. Through my own weakness. He GOD" has made this promise to all "who would just say yes . I accept your gift. There as far as I know , nothing hard to understand , In GODS Plan. He wishes to save, as many of His" Children" as He can. I also would like to see this. airclean33.
 
airclean33 said:
--Hi BetteTheRed--I am not to sure why you feel your not a chosen , or if you will be one of the elect. GOD" I understand is the one who will let you know this. I find it well just to take Him, at His Word. I can tell you He Loves you, no He didn't sneak up on me and tell me this. He told the world this in John 3: 16. Why wouldn't He . He made you and so is your father. I believe I am a Chosen or elect. I am even now ,I believe a member of The Kingdom to come. Has nothing to do what I had done . It dose how ever have every thing to do what Jesus The Christ has done. His Blood, sett me free from the chain's of sin. That I had put Myself in. Through my own weakness. He GOD" has made this promise to all "who would just say yes . I accept your gift. There as far as I know , nothing hard to understand , In GODS Plan. He wishes to save, as many of His" Children" as He can. I also would like to see this. airclean33.
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If He wants to save all of His children who He can airclean, and if He is indeed all-powerful and thus can do everything and anything He wants to - why doesn't He just save everyone?
 
Pr. Jae said:
If He wants to save all of His children who He can airclean, and if He is indeed all-powerful and thus can do everything and anything He wants to - why doesn't He just save everyone?
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And universalism (not UU'ism but the Christian version) answers, "God does." :D

Never been a popular answer, though. However, I find many liberal Christians tend to a kind of implicit universalism, ie. they don't necessarily go around saying "we are universalists", but they nonetheless don't really seem to believe that anyone is going to Hell when push comes to shove.
 
Mendalla said:
And universalism (not UU'ism but the Christian version) answers, "God does." :D

Never been a popular answer, though. However, I find many liberal Christians tend to a kind of implicit universalism, ie. they don't necessarily go around saying "we are universalists", but they nonetheless don't really seem to believe that anyone is going to Hell when push comes to shove.
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I'm never sure why it's not a more popular answer, when it certainly fits in with what we 'know' - i.e. nothing. I suspect it's because no-one wants to admit to planning on sharing paradise with Hitler, or Pol Pot, or whoever is the current "evil monster".
 
BetteTheRed said:
I'm never sure why it's not a more popular answer, when it certainly fits in with what we 'know' - i.e. nothing. I suspect it's because no-one wants to admit to planning on sharing paradise with Hitler, or Pol Pot, or whoever is the current "evil monster".
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That's surely part of it, but I also wonder if there's a sense that if Christians allow for universal salvation then there is no need to be a Christian to be saved and that means no real reason for anyone to be Christian.

It's a moot point for someone like me who doesn't believe in an afterlife or a need for salvation in this sense, but I can see it being a big deal for those who do.
 
Pr. Jae said:
If He wants to save all of His children who He can airclean, and if He is indeed all-powerful and thus can do everything and anything He wants to - why doesn't He just save everyone?
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--Because GOD has made it , the way it is . Pr Jae . If I were you I would put that question to GOD on my bucket list. Put I truly feel , there is much to think about , in allowing each to make there own choice.---An after thought Jae . I wonder" how much , each person that says no, Hurts GOD.
 
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Mendalla said:
That's surely part of it, but I also wonder if there's a sense that if Christians allow for universal salvation then there is no need to be a Christian to be saved and that means no real reason for anyone to be Christian.

It's a moot point for someone like me who doesn't believe in an afterlife or a need for salvation in this sense, but I can see it being a big deal for those who do.
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I've always believed that followers of Christ should believe that they need to follow Christ the Savior.
 
airclean33 said:
--Because GOD has made it , the way it is . Pr Jae . If I were you I would put that question to GOD on my bucket list. Put I truly feel , there is much to think about , in allowing each to make there own choice.
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Made it what way airclean? If God wants to save everyone, He has the power to do so. Do you believe that He has?
 
Pr. Jae said:
I've always believed that followers of Christ should believe that they need to follow Christ the Savior.
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Sure (well, the Christ, not necessarily the Saviour), but for what reason? I, personally, find that Christianity employed for the purpose of avoiding hell is so inherently selfish that it almost seems contraindicated.
 
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