WE. What in earth is going on?

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Luce NDs

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Most likely. This has been one of those popular charities that I bet influential people feel they should support. And oddly no one seems to be wondering what exactly it does

will this take down morneau? I feel like he has had two strikes already with mistakes and this should be three strikes you are out. First there was his French villa that he “forgot “ to mention. Then there was “forgetting “ to put his family stock into a blind trust. A family company that deals its pensions. And low and behold he changed pension rules without thinking there was a conflict

and now he seems unaware that he had a conflict. Unaware that a minister is not allowed to take free trips.

the charity itself is an entirely different issue. It seems in the surface to be sketchy. It has far too much money. It treats wealthy people to fun tours at exorbitant cost. And it hopefully inspires kids to a life of service. Or does it inspire them to having parents with deep pockets

an interesting aspect of this is that during the past government they received approx $1 million in grants. And after Trudeau took power that has increased to $5 million. That smacks of giving money to friends. It might not be that but it has a stench to it
Will you stop saying another benevolent tyrant will be improved in details over the past authoritarian. This is the experience of reality of the rages and rants of gods and you are sucked into the the emotional sector ... crossing the horizon event ... its sad!

Some sage stated stop, listen ... know! I speak from the dark ... your denied area where I am inky and shadowy!
 

Waterfall

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And, really, if you read carefully, I never said that. I suggested that wealth comes with spiritual issues, not that all rich people have them. My ultimately employer is a very well-heeled London family who are also a very down-to-Earth, caring family so I know that wealth =/= a**holes. However, I think that wealthy a**holes can do more damage to both themselves and society than poor ones and that wealth and, perhaps more pointedly, the attitude that wealth makes one "special" does tend to generate a certain kind of asshattery that poverty does not. An expectation that one will get ones way simply by spending, or even just showing, enough of that wealth being a big part of that. Elon Musk has been illustrating this in spades of late and the whole existence of the Kardashian/Jenner clan fits in there, too.
Can we move this and other related posts to another thread?....I don't know about you but I'm finding this topic fascinating. I will post a thread in religion and respond to you there.
 

Mendalla

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Can we move this and other related posts to another thread?....I don't know about you but I'm finding this topic fascinating. I will post a thread in religion and respond to you there.
The discussion of wealth, poverty, and Christianity has been moved to:


So we can keep expressing astonishment that a Canadian political party rewarded its friends as if it never happened before.
 

Luce NDs

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The discussion of wealth, poverty, and Christianity has been moved to:


So we can keep expressing astonishment that a Canadian political party rewarded its friends as if it never happened before.
Murphy's Law on the aboriginal time was in err? ... and yet to come! Still we don;t know much because of the sacred portion is sealed ... lost sol syndrome!
 

Carolla

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For me there seem to be a few issues that bubble up as I read through this thread -
  • government has always favoured some sectors of society - there may be benefit to establishing much clearer rules/guidelines and oversight - but is the direction being sought? Don't think so - seems more intent on taking down individuals than addressing the system within which they function
  • denigrating the individual(s) involved seems unhelpful - I think these are system failures & focusing on the individual perpetuates systemic problems - as in systemic racism - governing is historically largely the domain of those those with wealth & unseen/unacknowledged privilege
  • calling for resignations of PM & Finance Minister in the midst of previously unheard of national crisis related to the pandemic seems untimely - who then shall lead? Are any deemed sufficiently 'pure' to continue?
  • Sheer's daily insistence in this matter seems to be political grandstanding and hypocritical at the close of his career as party leader; attention seeking? and questionable in terms of the immediate needs of the country. We have bigger issues needing attention at this moment in time.
  • Seems to be some probably legit concerns about distinguishing charity & non-profit status; & the implications of holding both - who's working on clarification/modification? Anybody? I've not heard any constructive suggestion, just attack politics.
  • I have no knowledge of that resort in Kenya mentioned by Lastpointe (even as far as its name, so looking it up to learn more was not successful - yet). I wonder if it might be considered a 'social enterprise' at some level - a training ground & employment opportunity for local people (seems like there are many luxury resorts in Kenya) - other charities are certainly involved with social enterprise - perhaps not on this scale - but the idea does occur to me as a possibility. Are there foreign investment loopholes - it would not surprise me - but WE would certainly not be alone in taking advantage of it.
  • Big charities spend big money to garner donations - this is not new - but perhaps not well acknowledged. Do we need much better transparency so donors don't have go digging so deeply for such information. How could this be facilitated?
  • Re sponsorship withdrawal - not surprising on several levels - if the sponsor was primarily involved in the large youth rallies - WE has stated these are presently suspended - which is not surprising due to COVID etc even before this 'expose' began - so why would a sponsor of these rallies not logically withdraw? OTOH, many will run to distance themselves from the publicity - that's just 'business'.
Anyway - those are just a few of my thoughts gathered on a fresh morning, sitting in privilege on my shady backyard deck.
 

Waterfall

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For me there seem to be a few issues that bubble up as I read through this thread -
  • government has always favoured some sectors of society - there may be benefit to establishing much clearer rules/guidelines and oversight - but is the direction being sought? Don't think so - seems more intent on taking down individuals than addressing the system within which they function
  • denigrating the individual(s) involved seems unhelpful - I think these are system failures & focusing on the individual perpetuates systemic problems - as in systemic racism - governing is historically largely the domain of those those with wealth & unseen/unacknowledged privilege
  • calling for resignations of PM & Finance Minister in the midst of previously unheard of national crisis related to the pandemic seems untimely - who then shall lead? Are any deemed sufficiently 'pure' to continue?
  • Sheer's daily insistence in this matter seems to be political grandstanding and hypocritical at the close of his career as party leader; attention seeking? and questionable in terms of the immediate needs of the country. We have bigger issues needing attention at this moment in time.
  • Seems to be some probably legit concerns about distinguishing charity & non-profit status; & the implications of holding both - who's working on clarification/modification? Anybody? I've not heard any constructive suggestion, just attack politics.
  • I have no knowledge of that resort in Kenya mentioned by Lastpointe (even as far as its name, so looking it up to learn more was not successful - yet). I wonder if it might be considered a 'social enterprise' at some level - a training ground & employment opportunity for local people (seems like there are many luxury resorts in Kenya) - other charities are certainly involved with social enterprise - perhaps not on this scale - but the idea does occur to me as a possibility. Are there foreign investment loopholes - it would not surprise me - but WE would certainly not be alone in taking advantage of it.
  • Big charities spend big money to garner donations - this is not new - but perhaps not well acknowledged. Do we need much better transparency so donors don't have go digging so deeply for such information. How could this be facilitated?
  • Re sponsorship withdrawal - not surprising on several levels - if the sponsor was primarily involved in the large youth rallies - WE has stated these are presently suspended - which is not surprising due to COVID etc even before this 'expose' began - so why would a sponsor of these rallies not logically withdraw? OTOH, many will run to distance themselves from the publicity - that's just 'business'.
Anyway - those are just a few of my thoughts gathered on a fresh morning, sitting in privilege on my shady backyard deck.
Wow, this!!!!!
 

Lastpointe

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I agree that there is some systemic issue about how governments doles out money. Though if it was a huge issue for each government in the past we would be hearing about it from liberal hacks. I did read a “well they got money from Harper too” thread. Yes. $1 million over nine years. Not quite the same as $5 million over three years and then $45 to run a program

and yes, other politicians here and abroad have supported WE. bandwagon jumping perhaps?
 

Lastpointe

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On the Wealth and Christianity thread there was a comment about Trudeau and Morneau related to this thread

i don’t begrudge either of them their money. Morneau, while inheriting his and marrying wealth has worked and grow his family business. And reports say is quite generous to charities. That I have no knowledge of other than what I have read

he is a smart guy who seems to have trouble in government. I think, the idea that his motives are questionable is just a strange concept to him. Perhaps having never really been challenged before. The rich do indeed live lives very different than the rest of us

one of the articles this week about him said he wrote a cheque to cover the $41,000 he neglected to pay, having somehow not read the rule that cabinet ministers can’t accept trips. The comment in the article was that very few people in Canada could write a cheque for $41,000 to clear up a debt. That is more money than most people make!

trudeau I do think is a different kettle of fish. Born to wealth and priveledge and honestly not seeming to have done too much with it

snow board instructor, camp counselor, ok those are college jobs, my kids did both too

but then part time drama teacher. And then MP. MP elected let’s assume based on his name. I mean if in your riding two people were up for election. One an part time drama teacher and one say a former union le@der, or perhaps a lawyer, or perhaps doctor. Which would get your vote. Not the part time teacher

and he , to me, Just oozes privilege. I don’t begrudge him his wealth. After all it inherited it. i just don't think he has much going for him other than a pretty Face

freeland? Seems smart, accomplished journalist, quick in her feet
harper? Was smart, was shy,

.
 

Luce NDs

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Does elite define light handed? Could be a satyr ... thus the jousting of the well done!

During wartime budgeting in the 1939-45 period ... was there as much grandstanding to get money or was it just doled out to contractors because of blind need?

These monis set up some industries for a favoured position ... I've had to deal wit a few ... its depressing! War is grand for scavengers ...

Both NDs!
 

Carolla

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I've spent some time this afternoon reading the Transparency section of the Me to We website - lots of information there, and I'm interested to see they do identify as a social enterprise, formed to support WE Charity. They seem to me at least, to be pretty up front about their trips etc.

I also found mention there of the formation of Canada's social enterprise fund in 2018 - which I went exploring. Backgrounder: The Social Finance Fund - Canada.ca So I wonder if some of the increase in funding you are noticing Lastpointe is due to that change in structure.
 

Waterfall

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trudeau I do think is a different kettle of fish. Born to wealth and priveledge and honestly not seeming to have done too much with it

snow board instructor, camp counselor, ok those are college jobs, my kids did both too

but then part time drama teacher. And then MP. MP elected let’s assume based on his name. I mean if in your riding two people were up for election. One an part time drama teacher and one say a former union le@der, or perhaps a lawyer, or perhaps doctor. Which would get your vote. Not the part time teacher


.
I think my vote could possibly go for any person running that came from any of those professions......why does a teacher seem odd to you?
 

Mendalla

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Morneau, while inheriting his and marrying wealth has worked and grow his family business. And reports say is quite generous to charities. That I have no knowledge of other than what I have read
trudeau I do think is a different kettle of fish. Born to wealth and priveledge and honestly not seeming to have done too much with it
Which is largely what I was getting at in that post you reference (I assume it's mine). Morneau may have inherited wealth, but he did work and did build experience vs. Trudeau who seems to have just flailed about doing a bit of this and a bit of that. I don't see anything in Trudeau's background that makes him leadership material and I see definitely leadership background in Morneau. So it isn't the inherited wealth that bothers me about Justin T., it's the lack of real leadership experience prior to becoming leader. Look at Chretien and Martin before him, both of whom had years or (in Chretien's case) decades of experience under their belts both in and out of politics before becoming PM. Ditto Brian Mulroney.
 

Lastpointe

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A teacher doesn’t. A part time teacher says to me that he didn’t really need to work. He lived o his inheritance. And that says indulged to me

a rich guy, who works hard at any job says i am trying to contribute. A rich guy who works part time says I am doing this for fun
 

Luce NDs

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A teacher doesn’t. A part time teacher says to me that he didn’t really need to work. He lived o his inheritance. And that says indulged to me

a rich guy, who works hard at any job says i am trying to contribute. A rich guy who works part time says I am doing this for fun
Serious indoctrination effort?
 

Waterfall

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A teacher doesn’t. A part time teacher says to me that he didn’t really need to work. He lived o his inheritance. And that says indulged to me

a rich guy, who works hard at any job says i am trying to contribute. A rich guy who works part time says I am doing this for fun
I have teachers in my family that worked part time for five years before a full time job became available.....and one teaches french and graduated valedictorian, you would think she would be a prime candidate with her credentials....so she volunteered on the side, sold Alloette and raised a family while waiting.....part time doesn't always mean you sit idle.
 

Luce NDs

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I've heard from powers that people that incarnate (appearances) as idle are useless ... albeit what they are doing in solitude ... is something else again!

Tis an ink a mera feud over the wine dark Cae ... Nero fiddled and some containers (potus) followed lock step!
 

BetteTheRed

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A teacher doesn’t. A part time teacher says to me that he didn’t really need to work. He lived o his inheritance. And that says indulged to me

a rich guy, who works hard at any job says i am trying to contribute. A rich guy who works part time says I am doing this for fun
To me, this becomes a degree of character assassination.

Veiled innuendo that one is just not the right credential. Yet, you defend Stephen Harper, and the desecration he inflicted on the environment, as "shy", but smart. If he was really smart, he and the Cons would have figured out that we have only one planet. That carbon based fuel is limited, and declining. That the "free market" can't fix anything, never mind everything. Please do some research into sustainable economic models.

I'd give you dollars to donuts that if that a**hole Scheer were in charge at present, that my poor friends would be much worse off, and the economy would be even more badly tanked.

Would you like me to cast some more aspersions on the Con leadership in various spots? There'd be the Cheetoh to our south, the "not even a real insurance agent", "the grade 11 drop out hash dealer"? And I'm not even sure how to characterize the complete idiocy that is Alberta's "leader"...
 

Lastpointe

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I guess that is true. I do think Trudeau is a diletante with minimal talent Nothing really tells me any differently

my comment in Harper being shy was in comparison to trudeaus very charismatic personality. He loves the lime light and the attention. The selfies ( thank god he stopped doing that). Whee it was obvious that Harper was uncomfortable with all of it
 

Luce NDs

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Private perspectives as sealed sacred item that the demos shouldn't be cognizant of ... inflaming ... instead of aspiration I need aspirin!
 

BetteTheRed

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I do think Trudeau is a diletante with minimal talent Nothing really tells me any differently
I agree, but the alternative the Cons were selling (never even managed a job of ANY sort and every time he opens his mouth Dudley Dursley springs immediately to mind) means that the "difference" between our two "main" parties is equally minimal. Tweedle-dum and Tweedle-dummer every friggin' time. You'd think we would learn.
 
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