UCCan Statement on Medical Assistance in Dying

[Mendalla]

You really hit a crucial nail on the head with your words GordW.

I know of an example that addresses that type of situation. Woman in her 90's. Been lost in dementia for twenty years and suffering from arthritis and various other debilitating ailments. Was diagnosed with breast cancer and the nursing home asked for directions for her treatment. The family chose "Send her to the city for whatever it takes to beat this". The old lady had to be heavily drugged to travel, stayed heavily drugged through the necessary testing. She underwent surgery, developed an infection in her wound and then got pneumonia. She suffered greatly until she finally died.

In my view (and I suspect, yours) it would have been kinder to leave her in some sort of peace to die in place. Nothing worthwhile could come out of upsetting a confused patient in that manner. I believe life is very precious but don't see prolonging it when there is n hope for recovery and comfort.

We had Dad on a "comfort only" order. Basically, if he goes, let him go. Which they and we did. I don't get why someone would bother treating a person who was on the way out anyhow. Does it matter that the cancer gets them before whatever else they may have going on?

 

[KayTheCurler]

That, to me, sounds like the best thing to do - provide comfort. Drastic measures need the possibility of drastic improvements in health, I think. I don't know why the old lady's family chose surgery as the best course. They were told that she may not survive it and that she was getting closer to dying every day anyway.

I heard a health care provider talking to a group of patients. He explained his sorrow that one of his former patients had an order that said "No ventilator'. This person had advanced lung disease and was using oxygen full time. Life, in his eyes, had become uncomfortable and unpleasant, with little to recommend it. The health care person said he could have saved him for another year or so. A person hearing that said "So - he'd get another year or so of lugging oxygen everywhere and struggling to breathe. He'd be saved to be uncomfortable. His every day life would be unpleasant. What would be the point?"

 

[Jaebius]

 

[revjohn]

I would posit that the argument could be easily made that medical intervention is subverting the natural course of events already in many many cases.

Yes, clearly there is a double-standard at play with the whole "playing God" criticism.

 

[revjohn]

View attachment 1394

Prolong suffering.
Never end it.

 

[Jaebius]

Prolong suffering.
Never end it.

Let God be God. Let God decide when the time has come for the individual to die.

 

[Jaebius]

Excellent video presenting the biblical view of suicide.

What is the Christian view of suicide? What does the Bible say about suicide?

 

[BetteTheRed]

Suicide is the taking of one's own life by one's own hand. Medical assistance in dying has a 'better' word, that we use for critters. Euthanasia.

And we are God. My ex-husband would have died months before he did without modern medical intervention. He was on a feeding tube for seven months before he died. Less than a hundred years ago, he would have been dead a few months after diagnosis.

Many people today live for years beyond what they would have in my grandma's time. It's why the "life expectancy" has increased. It's not always "quality life" on the back end, quite frankly.

 

[revjohn]

Let God be God. Let God decide when the time has come for the individual to die.

Then I hope you are ready to forgo further medical interventions. If God has decided it is time for you to die you shouldn't be accessing medicines to prolong your life contrary to his desires.

 

[Mendalla]

It's why the "life expectancy" has increased.

Not entirely, though it's a factor. Life expectancy has also increased because of lower infant and child mortality. It used to be that your life expectancy was actually pretty good IF you actually made it to adulthood. Now, most people in the developed world and a growing number in the developing world are pretty much guaranteed to make it that far, increasing life expectancy as a whole. So it's really increasing because of medical and health advancements on both ends.

 

[Lastpointe]

Better access to food. Particularly fresh food and good water in winter months has added a lot to our natural life expectancy but it mainly is access to medicine. Antibiotics in particular.

If you really want to let god decide your death date then you would not take any medications at all. For infections, heart disease, diabetes, seizures.......

That of course is silly and no one would do it, well very few would do it.

So we all more or less are willing to have medical science extend our natural lives.

Not sure how that lines up with insisting on a natural death after an unnatural life

 

[Lastpointe]

My mom also had altzeimers and breast cancer. We had the opposite issue. Nursing home doc found lump and wanted her to have mammogram and treatment. My sister and I decided no mammogram, no treatment. He was really angry, until my sister pulled out her power of attorney. It was actually very strange

 

[Luce NDs]

Then I hope you are ready to forgo further medical interventions. If God has decided it is time for you to die you shouldn't be accessing medicines to prolong your life contrary to his desires.

God does have odd plans ... why many powerful Christians would take over control! Thus god is boxed up and denied ...

 

[Luce NDs]

My mom also had altzeimers and breast cancer. We had the opposite issue. Nursing home doc found lump and wanted her to have mammogram and treatment. My sister and I decided no mammogram, no treatment. He was really angry, until my sister pulled out her power of attorney. It was actually very strange

Natural courses are hard for some to follow ... thus rumours of supernatural ... for those with poor cognizance attributes ... its just beyond the bulk of the human hulk ...

 

[Luce NDs]

Aspirin is a grand natural material (recently synthesized) it relieves me of the headache of the human psyche compared to Godsoul .. which whisks the psyche away from the in human situation ... a cosmological jest?

They say whisk is a game of chance ...

 

[Mrs.Anteater]

That, to me, sounds like the best thing to do - provide comfort. Drastic measures need the possibility of drastic improvements in health, I think. I don't know why the old lady's family chose surgery as the best course. They were told that she may not survive it and that she was getting closer to dying every day anyway.

I heard a health care provider talking to a group of patients. He explained his sorrow that one of his former patients had an order that said "No ventilator'. This person had advanced lung disease and was using oxygen full time. Life, in his eyes, had become uncomfortable and unpleasant, with little to recommend it. The health care person said he could have saved him for another year or so. A person hearing that said "So - he'd get another year or so of lugging oxygen everywhere and struggling to breathe. He'd be saved to be uncomfortable. His every day life would be unpleasant. What would be the point?"

Not sure what kind of health professional that was, but in our system, patients with chronic lung diseases get educated on making that decision, because with certain chronic lung diseases, having to go on a ventilator means that you will never be able to get off the ventilator. So this isn’t about dragging an oxygen tank around, it means you are spending the rest of your life in ICU until some complications are taking you out. I have seen it.

 

[Mendalla]

Not sure what kind of health professional that was, but in our system, patients with chronic lung diseases get educated on making that decision, because with certain chronic lung diseases, having to go on a ventilator means that you will never be able to get off the ventilator. So this isn’t about dragging an oxygen tank around, it means you are spending the rest of your life in ICU until some complications are taking you out. I have seen it.

Ventilation is not pleasant but it does not mean hospitalization anymore. I do IT support for a home oxygen company and a number of our locations partner with care organizations (LHINs, hospitals) to provide care for ventilated patients in the community using our respiratory therapists. We are doing enough of it to require changes to the CRM system that I manage to track it.

 

[KayTheCurler]

View attachment 1394

He cared enough to not want to spend extra time lugging an oxygen tank everywhere he went. He cared enough that he didn't want to be in pain any more. He cared enough to not want to fight for every breath. He cared enough to complete the necessary paperwork. His family cared enough to let him go without unwanted medical interventions.

 

[KayTheCurler]

Not sure what kind of health professional that was, but in our system, patients with chronic lung diseases get educated on making that decision, because with certain chronic lung diseases, having to go on a ventilator means that you will never be able to get off the ventilator. So this isn’t about dragging an oxygen tank around, it means you are spending the rest of your life in ICU until some complications are taking you out. I have seen it.

The patient (and family) was aware of that. Health care personnel are trained to prevent death whenever and however they can. Poor guy had been dragging an oxygen tank around for years already. Had to sleep sitting up - and live with the back ache that goes with that.

 

[Waterfall]

Not sure what kind of health professional that was, but in our system, patients with chronic lung diseases get educated on making that decision, because with certain chronic lung diseases, having to go on a ventilator means that you will never be able to get off the ventilator. So this isn’t about dragging an oxygen tank around, it means you are spending the rest of your life in ICU until some complications are taking you out. I have seen it.

I had several of those patients on the complex care ward.....every morning they'd be placed in their electric wheelchairs and portable ventilators and would toot around the hospital and grounds on their own. It doesn't mean confinement necessarily.